Proved: There is no climate crisis

[fmccap]

Proved: There is no climate crisis

WASHINGTON (7-15-08) - Mathematical proof that there is no “climate crisis” appears today in a major, peer-reviewed paper in Physics and Society, a learned journal of the 10,000-strong American Physical Society, SPPI reports.

Christopher Monckton, who once advised Margaret Thatcher, demonstrates via 30 equations that computer models used by the UN’s climate panel (IPCC) were pre-programmed with overstated values for the three variables whose product is “climate sensitivity” (temperature increase in response to greenhouse-gas increase), resulting in a 500-2000% overstatement of CO2’s effect on temperature in the IPCC’s latest climate assessment report, published in 2007.

[RangerM]

Proved: There is no climate crisis

 

I'm on your side on this one, but really all this proves is that the mathematical models cited by the paper are flawed, which is in itself important.

 

Now what I'd like to know is if the flaw(s) was/were overlooked (doh!) or the result of intent.

[Trimdingman]

I'm on your side on this one, but really all this proves is that the mathematical models cited by the paper are flawed, which is in itself important.

 

Now what I'd like to know is if the flaw(s) was/were overlooked (doh!) or the result of intent.

 

 

The whole thing was obviously staged right from the beginning. They started with a need for a problem, and then they started digging until they concocted this. They needed it to involve CO2 because that is car exhaust. The invention of the catalytic converter threw a monkey wrench into their bogus global cooling hoax back in the 1970s. These are former Communists who are still at work trying to undermine the west.

[Imawhosure]

Another nail in the coffin in the phoney-baloney leaders of the the ENVIRO NAZIS!!!!!

[fmccap]

Another nail in the coffin in the phoney-baloney leaders of the the ENVIRO NAZIS!!!!!

This just keeps getting better.

Myth of Consensus Explodes: APS Opens Global Warming Debate

The American Physical Society, an organization representing nearly 50,000 physicists, has reversed its stance on climate change and is now proclaiming that many of its members disbelieve in human-induced global warming. The APS is also sponsoring public debate on the validity of global warming science. The leadership of the society had previously called the evidence for global warming "incontrovertible."

 

In an email to DailyTech, Monckton says, "I was dismayed to discover that the IPCC's 2001 and 2007 reports did not devote chapters to the central 'climate sensitivity' question, and did not explain in proper, systematic detail the methods by which they evaluated it. When I began to investigate, it seemed that the IPCC was deliberately concealing and obscuring its method."

[Imawhosure]

Excellent, excellent!!!!!

 

Where is the ever stout SAVETHEPLANET when you need someone to finally hit over the head, lolol.

 

The tide is turning, FINALLY!!!!!

 

Please Mr Cap, save these links for future use. I am sure; even as we type, the ENVIRO NAZIS are spinning a response to this afront of their PHONEY-BAL............I mean wonderful arguement. ALGORE is having a coniption fit, and M. Moore is on the phone with HOLLYWEIRD in an attempt to force California to leave the union. ECO (socialist) SHANGRI-LA may be slipping away because of an inconvienient little thing called TRUTH. (didn't the leader of the ECO NAZIS make a movie totally laughed at and proved false called that?) They can't have that, now can they, lolololol. If you don't believe me, ask ALGORE, right AL, lololololololololol.

 

P.S. Obama is not gonna like none of da-shit happening right now as oil dumps, his constituents (eco phoney baloneys) science under attack, and America saying, "hold on a minute there cowboy!"

 

You are right CAP, it is finally happening--------->America learning the cause and effect of things in politics, and that does not bode well for the democrats. The last thing they want is to be seen as the fleecers of your pocket for energy, but rest assured, it is now obvious this is gonna turn into a nightmare for them........no matter how hard they try to blame the "oilmen, lolol" it WILL becoma apparent EXACTLY what is going on very, very, soon. Watch the TV for upcoming political adds, lololol!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Trust me on this one!!!!!

[Blueblood]

Idiots, look at your fucking sources once again you imbeciles...

[NickF1011]

Idiots, look at your fucking sources once again you imbeciles...

 

Seem to be from the opposite, although no more off-center, end of the spectrum that the climate change alarmists reside. :shrug:

[Ralph Greene]

Some of you guys are just as weird in your views as the enviro guys are in theirs.

 

The earth has warmed in the past few years. Sure I know....the N pole ice shrinks, and the S pole ice grows....which proves nothing. But there is proof of higher temps the past few years.

 

This stupid debate is really only about what caused the temp rise....a natural occurence, man made, or a little of both. And who can deny it is a good idea to reduce the burning of carbon based fuels?

 

I tend to think we don't have all these answers yet, so no need to panic. But I do think it is a good idea to pollute the atmosphere less, whatever that takes. I believe that is basic idea where our country is heading. And the only way to get some of you (freedom at all costs) to pollute less, is to hit you where it hurts most....in your pocket book. You notice that.

[suv_guy_19]

Some of you guys are just as weird in your views as the enviro guys are in theirs.

 

The earth has warmed in the past few years. Sure I know....the N pole ice shrinks, and the S pole ice grows....which proves nothing. But there is proof of higher temps the past few years.

 

This stupid debate is really only about what caused the temp rise....a natural occurence, man made, or a little of both. And who can deny it is a good idea to reduce the burning of carbon based fuels?

 

I tend to think we don't have all these answers yet, so no need to panic. But I do think it is a good idea to pollute the atmosphere less, whatever that takes. I believe that is basic idea where our country is heading. And the only way to get some of you (freedom at all costs) to pollute less, is to hit you where it hurts most....in your pocket book. You notice that.

 

 

All the things you say are true (except that in some circles, there is now a debate over whether the earth has really warmed over the last few years of if its actually cooler). There is no problem with polluting less, the problem is the people who want to destroy the economy in order to do it. It has to be done gradually moving forward because there are individuals and businesses (not to mention governments) that can't afford it.

[goinbroke2]

You know what? Don't throw garbage out your window when your driving, don't throw your waste engine oil in the dirt after a change, don't dump chemicals down the drain...it's not hard to use logic. But to go overboard is no good either.

 

Pavement has hydrocarbons in it...pavement is on the ground...the ground will be contaminated by hydrocarbons...hydrocarbon contamination is bad..therefore pavement is bad...solution? dig up and dispose of all pavement! If anyone objects in any way shape or form, then they are "in with big oil" who obviously benefits the most from pavement production. First we must stop people from driving on pavement (and the subsequent hydrocarbon transfer remaining on another hydrocarbon product called tires) The best way to stop people from driving on the pavement is to, you guessed it, TAX IT! Put a tariff or toll on all paved roads to cover the cost of removing and disposing of the roads. Of course the removal of all pavement in the US would equal XXX billions of carbon credits which could be sold to other countries to pay down the deficit. A win-win situation right? Less polluting pavement/more carbon credits/lower national debt? Life could be so good if we all ate granola and got rid of the evil pavement......

 

Fucking hippy freaks and eco nazi's!

[Imawhosure]

Some of you guys are just as weird in your views as the enviro guys are in theirs.

 

The earth has warmed in the past few years. Sure I know....the N pole ice shrinks, and the S pole ice grows....which proves nothing. But there is proof of higher temps the past few years.

 

This stupid debate is really only about what caused the temp rise....a natural occurence, man made, or a little of both. And who can deny it is a good idea to reduce the burning of carbon based fuels?

 

I tend to think we don't have all these answers yet, so no need to panic. But I do think it is a good idea to pollute the atmosphere less, whatever that takes. I believe that is basic idea where our country is heading. And the only way to get some of you (freedom at all costs) to pollute less, is to hit you where it hurts most....in your pocket book. You notice that.

 

Ralph,

 

I respect you, but you just don't understand the premise I think.

 

Look, myself and many others are FOR developing cleaner fuels, better vehicles, trying to make things better.

 

But here is the catch---------->we want it introduced into the marketplace. If it beats the price of fossil fuels, everyone will buy it. Even if it doesn't, even I would alternate between the two or three type of fuels. I could regulate the cost by doing that.

 

On the other side of the coin with these people, they want to eliminate market forces by starving America of its own resources. I am not trying to stop them from riding bikes, creating eco fuel, or anything else. I am not imposing my will on them. If they wish to create better fuels which I can buy, then so be it.

 

What it all boils down to from my perspective is quite simple-------->they want to eliminate market forces so as they can impose their will. If you notice, all most of us are saying is to keep the market going.

 

Who is trying to force whom to do what they want? Not me!!!!! I could care less if they use plants, nuclear, hydrogen, coal, or even water to fuel their vehicles. I will support their right to develop, use, and sell anything they come up with as an alternative. It is they who want to restrict use, not I.

 

If the ecos are correct, and we are seriously running out of oil, (the world that is) will not market forces push the price so high that their vision will become reality? If that is true, why are they pushing for a FALSE MARKET?

 

It is stated that human knowledge doubles every 7 years or less. (thanks to the advent of the computer) Does anyone think that if this is true; and since we already have hydrogen technology to drive our vehicles with, that it won't be reality that this type of fueling will come down to where we can easily afford it withing 7 to 14 years? Why is it then we must destroy our economy today? Do you think we are on the verge of extinction due to our effect on the enviroment? It is NOT likely!

 

This is why I push their buttons! Everything is a crisis to everyone. How many crisis have you been informed about through the media, through word of mouth? Is everyone still here? Well, we can easily last for 14, 20, 40, or 100 more years using fossil fuels. If we can't make hydrogen or something else work by then, I will be with the ecos 100%. Come back and talk to me then.

[fmccap]

And the only way to get some of you (freedom at all costs) to pollute less, is to hit you where it hurts most....in your pocket book. You notice that.

Maybe we should get together and force you to stop doing something you like and see how that is recieved.

[Ralph Greene]

I believe market forces will solve these problems. I also believe market forces will solve them in a way you can live with. I also think there will be a lot of opportunity in new technology for some of you younger guys, a lot of new careers for you. And probably many of them in newer and cleaner ways to find, develop, and use fossil fuels. Not everything will soon switch to totally new technology. I tend to look forward to these changes, and I'm an old guy.

 

But I also think you have to get on board with the idea of polluting our planet less (whether or not it proves to be the main contributor to climate changes). Some of you just fight the idea, and some are open minded about awaiting good information and new technolgy.

 

I see myself with a small maybe battery powered car around the house for short trips, and maybe a larger van/SUV/small truck type vehicle running off some combination of fossil or renewal fuels for longer trips before long. I'm looking forward to some new things to invest in. I suspect there is a lot of money going to be made from these changes. Just think of the changes in agriculture if some temp changes are permanent (well for a few centuries anyway).

 

Some of you are young enough and/or are able to start thinking about where in thr US would you want to live if we have some permanent climate change. You could move now while land prices are cheap, and where your kids and grand kids might have a better future. If I were a young man, I would be beating a path to the wind farm area of the US now (Texas to the Canadian border), figuring some of these deserted areas will soon be booming. Boone Pickens says it's "possible" to supply up to about 20% of our electric power from wind. And that corredor is a natural wind funnel down from Canada. Consider the oil shale areas of Colorado and Wyoming, they won't be only Bison farms forever with the new technology to get at this trapped oil.

 

They say that in the 20 years or so after our Civil War in this country, the largest migration of people that ever occured in the history of the planet happend as Americans moved west for a better opportunity. I suspect something like that is getting ready to happen again, just in a slightly different way. Maybe involving Canada as well.

Edited July 20, 2008 by Ralph Greene

[Trimdingman]

There is no need for this great revolution because there is no problem. Everything is blown way out of proportion. Air pollution has been on the decline for many years. The former Communists are now grabbing at this global warming straw. The cost of fuel will be looked after by the vested interests. Car makers and oil producers can go one of two ways. Either they can price their products so that they will only be available to the elite class, or they can price them so that they will be affordable to the general public. Henry Ford's original partners wanted to build an expensive product for the rich only. He wanted mass production for the general public. That is where the profit is. If gasoline costs too much, they will sell less. Market forces will naturally set the best price. Five dollar a gallon gas will lead to the $40,000 Focus. Car companies will always give the customer what he wants. I think that the US government is deliberately squeezing gasoline production in order to cause inflation to inflate away the war debt instead of raising taxes.

[NickF1011]

Air pollution has been on the decline for many years.

 

Haven't been to China or India lately, have you?

[fmccap]

American physicists warned not to debate global warming

[Trimdingman]

Haven't been to China or India lately, have you?

 

How is improving our air quality going to improve global air quality if China and India are polluting. When you clean up a mess, you go to the source first. It doesn't make sense to be using a dust mop when there is a big glob of sludge at the source. You clean up the heavy stuff first, and mop up after. What we are doing is futile and useless.

[NickF1011]

How is improving our air quality going to improve global air quality if China and India are polluting. When you clean up a mess, you go to the source first. It doesn't make sense to be using a dust mop when there is a big glob of sludge at the source. You clean up the heavy stuff first, and mop up after. What we are doing is futile and useless.

Yeah, so let's just pollute as much as we want because somebody else is doing it worse.

 

Maybe I should just kill one person. That shouldn't be such a big deal since there are people out there who have killed dozens, right? Yes, an exaggerated comparison, but similar nonetheless.

[mettech]

Haven't been to China or India lately, have you?

 

[Imawhosure]

Yeah, so let's just pollute as much as we want because somebody else is doing it worse.

 

Maybe I should just kill one person. That shouldn't be such a big deal since there are people out there who have killed dozens, right? Yes, an exaggerated comparison, but similar nonetheless.

 

THAT IS A RIDICULOUS STATEMENT!!!!!

 

In that case, lets not control the nuclear arsenal since we have kept it under control since WWII, lets just allow everyone to get them and deal with whatever they want to do, whenever they want to do it.

 

For crying out loud, CHINA had to shutdown its manufacturing to so as pollution wasn't hanging in the air, and the judges could actually see the contestants. (look it up)

 

Your logic is BRILLIANT!!!!!! We will give you the ALGORE award for not only stupidity, but also for the pollyanna outlook that everyone else will look out for our earth as well as we will.

 

Tell us, how many factions of eco fanatics does China have; and how much pressure can they exert on the Chineese government. (without getting run over in Tianeman square)

 

Your mind resides in ECO-SHANGRI-LA, while reality resides here, in world politics.

 

Such a fool, who wants to dictate your thoughts, without logical reality behind it.

 

YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!!!!!

[suv_guy_19]

THAT IS A RIDICULOUS STATEMENT!!!!!

 

In that case, lets not control the nuclear arsenal since we have kept it under control since WWII, lets just allow everyone to get them and deal with whatever they want to do, whenever they want to do it.

 

For crying out loud, CHINA had to shutdown its manufacturing to so as pollution wasn't hanging in the air, and the judges could actually see the contestants. (look it up)

 

Your logic is BRILLIANT!!!!!! We will give you the ALGORE award for not only stupidity, but also for the pollyanna outlook that everyone else will look out for our earth as well as we will.

 

Tell us, how many factions of eco fanatics does China have; and how much pressure can they exert on the Chineese government. (without getting run over in Tianeman square)

 

Your mind resides in ECO-SHANGRI-LA, while reality resides here, in world politics.

 

Such a fool, who wants to dictate your thoughts, without logical reality behind it.

 

YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!!!!!

 

Ok....so since China pollutes more than NA, we should be able to pollute. Why not try to make things better here , within a framework that doesn't hurt the economy. Maybe all projects moving forward should be clean (not a maybe), and the older facilities can be retrofitted over time. I really don't see the harm in cutting back even if there is no MMGW.

[Trimdingman]

Ok....so since China pollutes more than NA, we should be able to pollute. Why not try to make things better here , within a framework that doesn't hurt the economy. Maybe all projects moving forward should be clean (not a maybe), and the older facilities can be retrofitted over time. I really don't see the harm in cutting back even if there is no MMGW.

 

 

If pollution is really a problem, (I think that it is, but blown wildly out of proportion.); ahem, if it really is a problem, then the solution lies in going after the major source first. That means that all of those enviro-activists should be over in China and India. It is pointless to clean up more here if they are just messing it up. If Junior is pouring the contents of the fridge onto the floor and has the sink overflowing, and Mother is dusting the blinds, what is wrong with this picture?

[NickF1011]

THAT IS A RIDICULOUS STATEMENT!!!!!

 

In that case, lets not control the nuclear arsenal since we have kept it under control since WWII, lets just allow everyone to get them and deal with whatever they want to do, whenever they want to do it.

 

For crying out loud, CHINA had to shutdown its manufacturing to so as pollution wasn't hanging in the air, and the judges could actually see the contestants. (look it up)

 

Your logic is BRILLIANT!!!!!! We will give you the ALGORE award for not only stupidity, but also for the pollyanna outlook that everyone else will look out for our earth as well as we will.

 

Tell us, how many factions of eco fanatics does China have; and how much pressure can they exert on the Chineese government. (without getting run over in Tianeman square)

 

Your mind resides in ECO-SHANGRI-LA, while reality resides here, in world politics.

 

Such a fool, who wants to dictate your thoughts, without logical reality behind it.

 

YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!!!!!

 

Wow. I think you entirely missed my point.

[Imawhosure]

Wow. I think you entirely missed my point.

 

No, I got your point.

 

When you want to improve efficiency, do you A. fix the most efficient process running at 98% efficency, or do you B. fix the process that is running at 55% efficiency where you will get more bang for your buck? (and time, for that matter)

 

The enviros should be in China and India, period!!!! That they aren't and are whining over here says everything about the enviro leaders agendas, wouldn't you say?!?!?!?!

 

All we nned do now is look at the squawk box that is showing where the Olympics are being held, lolol. They shut down hundreds of factorys, and stopped 1/2 the cars from entering the city. TELL US ALL WHAT YOU SEE, lolol............or rather, a better idea is tell us what you CAN'T see, hehehehehehehehehehe.

 

Soooooooooo, you want to exempt them huh, and force us into Kyoto, lololol. You want to regulate the hell out of us, so the manufacturers have to flee for over there for your vision of ECO-SHANGRI-La here. We may have been born late at night, but it wasn't late, last night!!!!!

 

And I have a pertinent question for the ecos---------->How many of you FIGHT to insure there is no nuclear war? How many of you FIGHT to stop neclear proliferation? Is that a good cause? Well, I would say it is.....except for one little caveat!!!!!!!!

 

After your are done forcing Ford and GM into bankruptcy with your NO DRILLING policy, (and we are ALL ((or should be all)) reading that now GM is deep-deep-deep trouble) if there is no nuclear war and it ends up being conventional, who is going to build our tanks and artillery? The Japanese?????

 

I can see it all now------------>the enviros lay down in front of the tanks of the enemy to stop the war, since all our tanks are gone and we have nobody, and no place left to build them. SQUISH, the enviros are run over, and the rest of us wonder why in the hell we ever listened to a bunch of nut jobs in the first place as we sit in concentration camps.

 

All for ENVIRO, ECO SHANGRI-LA. That is brilliant, just a brilliant foreign and domestic policy. Were it not for the fact that there is still hope, an independent candidate who had nerve enough to tell the truth would have to recommend that 3/4 of you should be shot for treason.

 

You try to blame everyone but yourselves all over this board for manufacturers fleeing, and domestic autobuilders being trouble. And yet, it is clear as the nose on everyones face (and if it isn't, shame on them) who is to blame for blocking, screwing up, along with putting off drilling; add to that the over the top regulations making everything nearly impossible.

 

The Chinese have no better friends than people like you, and they and Wal-Mart thank you!!!!!!