Jump to content

2020 Corvette revealed


akirby

Recommended Posts

22 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

Any mention of Ford GT and this Vette need to stop now. Just stop already. Just because they both are mid engine doesn't mean the Vette will remotely equal the performance of the GT. We have a lot buzz with the 59995 base version that won't be 0-60 under 3.0 and have 0 performance metrics for it, besides price. Nobody knows what the Z51 package will cost or how it will handle. We do know that it will be under 0-60 in 3 seconds, that's it.

What we do know is the GT was made for a race series and was limited by engine size for it's class. It's nearing the end of its production life and has done it's job.

The C7 Corvette competed directly with the Ford GT in those races and I can tell you that Ford GT cut GM to the quick
and they were bound and determined to equal beat it. This new C8 is a mere 300 lbs heavier and the only engine declared
so far is the 6.2 V8 - that does get the car 0-60 in under 3 seconds, beating the Ford GT's 0-60. I think there are more earth shocks planned in the coming months and I can almost guarantee that every press drive will compare it to the Ford GT, so get used to it.

Quote

Now, in year 2021 or 2022 when GM releases the TT model that will probably come in around 100k plus. We may be hearing it best GT lap times. Who knows?  We know very little about the Vette other than what GM wanted us to know last night. The assumptions that this Vette, which I like the looks,  is going to kill it are unfounded yet. We won't know for at least 10 months.

Yes we do, the C7 Corvette road car was already beating the GT on certain road courses when the cars were doing test laps...

I can almost guarantee that the C8 has been bench marked against the Ford GT and that  the road going versions will
most certainly eclipse the GT in most metrics, it has to because the Chevrolet engineers have been doing this for the
past few years with the C7.

Edited by jpd80
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

The C7 Corvette competed directly with the Ford GT in those races and I can tell you that Ford GT cut GM to the quick
and they were bound and determined to equal beat it. This new C8 is a mere 300 lbs heavier and the only engine declared
so far is the 6.2 V8 - that does get the car 0-60 in under 3 seconds, beating the Ford GT's 0-60. I think there are more earth shocks planned in the coming months and I can almost guarantee that every press drive will compare it to the Ford GT, so get used to it.

Yes we do, the C7 Corvette road car was already beating the GT on certain road courses when the cars were doing test laps...

I can almost guarantee that the C8 has been bench marked against the Ford GT and that  the road going versions will
most certainly eclipse the GT in most metrics, it has to because the Chevrolet engineers have been doing this for the
past few years with the C7.

I think your mixing racing and production car. I could care less about racing series cars. I know that is why the GT got produced though.

As far as production cars go, 0-60 tell us very little. We do know the Z51 Vettes can do it. An impressive feat but one that tells us very little other than initial gearing/acceleration. Don’t know how it will handle or how much anything besides the cheapest model will cost. I absolutely don’t expect a base or Z51 Vette to be in the same League as the GT. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see what you mean about GM dropping factoids but not qualifying which engine is being referenced.

The previous 460 HP C7 Corvette stingray  would do 0-60 in around 3.6/3.7 seconds, it would be a huge effort to improve that time by more than 0.6 seconds simply because of a near 500 HP 6.2, 8-speed DCT and more weight on the rear wheels.

That 0-60mph in under 3 seconds claim has to be for the S/C ZL1, the more  think of it the more that makes sense.
it's also 300 lbs heavier which doesn't sound much but makes a huge difference to the way the cars accelerate,
handle and brake......
You know I would have been more impress if GM had a +660 HP TTV6 in there but I understand why that
would never be a consideration for them...

 

Edited by jpd80
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, akirby said:

The Ford GT beats the Corvette in one important area - revenue per vehicle.  Nobody is paying even half the GTs price for a C8.

Except in the last 15 years GM has probably sold 100x's as many Corvettes.  The real question is which car has made more profit for its manufacturer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, msm859 said:

Except in the last 15 years GM has probably sold 100x's as many Corvettes.  The real question is which car has made more profit for its manufacturer.

Except that was never the point of the Ford GT, it was always intended as a limited production vehicle.
Getting a defined ROI instead of buried in red ink was the main reason the project was sourced through MultiMac..

After such a successful collaboration with MultiMac, you'd think that Ford might have another project....

Edited by jpd80
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Except that was never the point of the Ford GT, it was always intended as a limited production vehicle.
Getting a defined ROI instead of buried in red ink was the main reason the project was sourced through MultiMac..

After such a successful collaboration with MultiMac, you'd think that Ford might have another project....

That's all good.  I was just responding to the comment that the Ford GT beats the Corvette in revenue per vehicle - not the most important metric.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, msm859 said:

That's all good.  I was just responding to the comment that the Ford GT beats the Corvette in revenue per vehicle - not the most important metric.

It is for a limited production vehicle but that wasn’t the point.  The point was people are willing to pay over $400k for a GT because it’s a special car.  I don’t see anyone ever paying that much for a GM vehicle.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, akirby said:

It is for a limited production vehicle but that wasn’t the point.  The point was people are willing to pay over $400k for a GT because it’s a special car.  I don’t see anyone ever paying that much for a GM vehicle.

Did anyone think before the GT was announced that anyone would pay half a million for a Ford?  I certainly didnt think so.  

Maybe if GM created something super special with a very limited run, they could (nah, they couldnt).

But my point is, the Corvette isnt special.  It is a good value performance car that they build as many as they can.  Over a year ago dealers were selling z06s for 10k+ under sticker.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, blwnsmoke said:

Did anyone think before the GT was announced that anyone would pay half a million for a Ford?  I certainly didnt think so.  

Maybe if GM created something super special with a very limited run, they could (nah, they couldnt).

But my point is, the Corvette isnt special.  It is a good value performance car that they build as many as they can.  Over a year ago dealers were selling z06s for 10k+ under sticker.  

Ford has a history of supercars with 3 generations of the GT/GT40.  GM only has the Corvette.

They can probably get $150k for a special edition C8.

I think they should have kept and updated C7 and made this a more sophisticated clean sheet design with more advanced engines.  But that’s not how GM thinks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, akirby said:

Ford has a history of supercars with 3 generations of the GT/GT40.  GM only has the Corvette.

They can probably get $150k for a special edition C8.

I think they should have kept and updated C7 and made this a more sophisticated clean sheet design with more advanced engines.  But that’s not how GM thinks.

I completely agree.  It will sell but there will be many Corvette loyalists who look at this and say it isnt a vette.  That is where it will hurt GM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Didn’t GM announce another shift (or at the very least increased production) at the Bowling Green factory?   That may result in increased sales in the short run (until they inevitably tail off), but it’s going to affect long term sales and profitability.  Both on the prices they can command side and the production side (they have to pay for the extra shift/workers).   It’ll likely result in the usual GM overproduction and big discounts down the road.    “Corvette month” anyone?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

Didn’t GM announce another shift (or at the very least increased production) at the Bowling Green factory?   That may result in increased sales in the short run (until they inevitably tail off), but it’s going to affect long term sales and profitability.  Both on the prices they can command side and the production side (they have to pay for the extra shift/workers).   It’ll likely result in the usual GM overproduction and big discounts down the road.    “Corvette month” anyone?

Yes sir. Here is the press release from April 2019. https://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2019/apr/0425-bowlinggreen.html

Overproduction is not an issue with Corvette. Fairly high proportion of this model consists of sold orders from individual customers. Also, Bowling Green Assembly is the sole production location for Corvette.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think everyone is in the same mind set as to where’s the catch!? Mid engine car, numbers sound good on paper, and starting at less than 60k. Fiero? 

I figure  the base price is a marketing scheme to get you interested, like most marketing, then add one option and the price rockets. 

All automotive enthusiast are thinking the same thing, why is it so cheap? What did they cut to get it there? I think most of the comments have been positive, so I think gm did a good job on this one. Can’t wait to see the pricing. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, fordtech1 said:

I think everyone is in the same mind set as to where’s the catch!? Mid engine car, numbers sound good on paper, and starting at less than 60k. Fiero? 

I figure  the base price is a marketing scheme to get you interested, like most marketing, then add one option and the price rockets. 

All automotive enthusiast are thinking the same thing, why is it so cheap? What did they cut to get it there? I think most of the comments have been positive, so I think gm did a good job on this one. Can’t wait to see the pricing. 

Actually I think the big problem is a number of people were arguing the C8 would be over $100k because all other mid engine high performance cars were over $100k.  However, when you break it down by materials the only real thing adding costs is the DCT.  There was no reason for the C8 to costs over $100k.  This was a big argument on the Corvette Forum for the last year.  I had said is would start below $65k, so GM did do a good job at holding costs.  They will ramp up production the first year to get back the R&D - which is another reason Corvettes are value priced.  They can amortize costs over a greater volume.  (I also think they advertised hiring extra shift well in advance because of the blow back they were getting for closing other plants). First year sales will be great and they will slowly decline over the run of this generation with upticks on new models - Z06, GS, ZR1 etc.  I have ordered my last 3 and will probably do the same here and do another Factory Delivery.  You get a private tour of the factory, go across the street and get a private tour of the museum and at the end is your car sitting on display and you drive it off.  Great experience for any car enthusiasts.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, coupe3w said:

Do you know how much profit Ford is making per vehicle? I would like to know.

I don’t but I think it’s safe to say there is a ton of gross profit in each one.  The question is how much R&D went into it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, akirby said:

I don’t but I think it’s safe to say there is a ton of gross profit in each one.  The question is how much R&D went into it.

For a start,
GM has invested over $900 million in Bowling green since 2011, the latest C8 Corvette required $500 million
Ford skips that by using MultiMac for both development and real world experience and production facility.

The Genesis of Ford GT happened over about six months with a lot of technical help for Multimac
I think that's where Ford and MultiMac kept development costs  low by not having a big engineering team
where as  GM probably took GM at least three years to develop the C8 with a much bigger budget and eng team.

Equally, I don't think that Ford made a huge profit out of the GT, their mission was to develop and sell
the car and not take a bath doing that, MultiMac was instrumental in making that happen.

 

Edited by jpd80
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's curious to know how long GM will keep these prices.  I believe that due to the controversies caused by the design they decided on a cheap version.  But I believe that, as sales start to succeed, the price will grow considerably.  The electrified versions are hardly likely to be accessible, but nothing that will reach the GT, which is a limited and rare production car. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, akirby said:

I don’t but I think it’s safe to say there is a ton of gross profit in each one.  The question is how much R&D went into it.

But Multimatic should keep a sizable share of profits. It is worth remembering that a GT caught fire and Ford / Multimatic rewarded with an entirely new GT

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, RadicalX said:

But Multimatic should keep a sizable share of profits. It is worth remembering that a GT caught fire and Ford / Multimatic rewarded with an entirely new GT

It also didn't cost Ford $450K to do that, leaking fuel on a new vehicle is down to production Issue (MultiMac supply another)

In terms of profits, I'll have a go,
I was thinking along these lines, GM sells C8 Corvette at a starting price of $60K, allow a $20K hold back on the basic $60K price for funding development Production facility and profit margin, that leaves an underlying Production cost of around $40K, assume that the GT's carbon fiber and unique parts are ten times dearer, there's your $400K price that goes to MultiMac plus $50K back to Ford....

Edited by jpd80
Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

It also didn't cost Ford $450K to do that, leaking fuel on a new vehicle is down to production Issue (MultiMac supply another)

In terms of profits, I'll have a go,
I was thinking along these lines, GM sells C8 Corvette at a starting price of $60K, allow a $20K hold back on the basic $60K price for funding development Production facility and profit margin, that leaves an underlying Production cost of around $40K, assume that the GT's carbon fiber and unique parts are ten times dearer, there's your $400K price that goes to MultiMac plus $50K back to Ford....

GT active aero, active suspension, carbon fiber wheels, carbon-ceramic brakes, gorilla glass windshield; should come out expensive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, RadicalX said:

GT active aero, active suspension, carbon fiber wheels, carbon-ceramic brakes, gorilla glass windshield; should come out expensive.

Agree and that's why I said, " assume that the GT's carbon fiber and unique parts are ten times dearer "
meaning whatever suspension wheels brakes GM uses, we assume the GT's are ten times dearer.
The thumbnail $400K price is all to MultiMac to build and supply, (Ford supplying engines to MultMac)

Edited by jpd80
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RadicalX said:

It's curious to know how long GM will keep these prices.  I believe that due to the controversies caused by the design they decided on a cheap version.  But I believe that, as sales start to succeed, the price will grow considerably.  The electrified versions are hardly likely to be accessible, but nothing that will reach the GT, which is a limited and rare production car. 

It looks like GM took a page out of the Porsche handbook.  They have a configurator up that you can design your C8.  Looks like one of the most customizable Corvettes in a long time.  They have a lot of "candy" options that I suspect will have high margins and should make GM some decent profit. LED lighting for the engine compartment with some carbon fiber trim pieces, 3 seat types, 3 interior levels, multiple colors, carbon fiber trim pieces inside and out, on and on.  The base price is probably just a teaser, average sales price will be interesting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...