HotRunrGuy Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, T-dubz said: Does the flex even count as a wagon? I thought it was an suv Are you kidding? Heck, that thing say's Country Squire all day long,,,,,, HRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 16 minutes ago, T-dubz said: Does the flex even count as a wagon? I thought it was an suv The state of Michigan classifies it as a station wagon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) Clearly, market tastes are changing away from cars and sedans, whatever Ford does to alter the Fusion is aimed at better alignment with what buyers now want which is clearly different to preferences even a few short years ago. Every time I think what can be done to alter Fusion, the changes seem to take it a lot closer to the Edge, is that a good thing or does it set up more internal competition or does it complement those sales? Is Ford looking to do a reset on what it used to call super segment ( Fiesta-Focus-Escape-Fusion)and change that to vehicles better aligned with today's customers, Puma-Ecosport-Escape-Scout-small Pick up? a Edited July 18, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 If you ask my wife, her Flex is NOT a station wagon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) The only reason some people still think Outback as a wagon is because it was at one time based on the Legacy wagon. That's ancient history. Subaru doesn't even sell a Legacy wagon anymore. If Outback name had no historical ties to Legacy (it started as Legacy Outback), then most people will just call it what it is... a 5 seat midsize CUV. It is not really any different fundamentally than Santa Fe, Edge or Grand Cherokee... all four are roughly the same in all dimensions. If Santa Fe or Edge are utilities, than Outback is one too. If Outback is a wagon, then so is Grand Cherokee. 2020 Outback: 191" x 73" x 66" 2019 Santa Fe: 188" x 74" x 66" 2019 Edge: 188" x 76" x 69" 2019 Cherokee: 189" x 77" x 68" The article in the OP is somewhat misleading I think in that it points to this Ford being an "Outback like" vehicle. Well, that just says the car Ford is planning is a midsize CUV with 5 seats. So stop the hand wring over whether this is a "wagon" or not... it won't be. Just like Outback is not really a wagon. I will point to my previous post in this thread... Ford's plan is to sell 2 or 3 utilities in each segment. We know Bronco will be the off-road/rugged one in the midsize category. There is still room for a urban/sleek one and a middle of the road/traditional shape one. Edited July 18, 2019 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, bzcat said: Subaru doesn't even sell a Legacy wagon anymore. Successor to Legacy wagon is Levorg. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 I think there’s a big difference between cuvs and wagons. Just because they are the same size and have similar function doesn’t mean they look the same. Wagons generally look like a sedan with the back added on while cuvs look more like SUVs. I’m also curious how this plan of trying to fill every niche with product will work. Seems like in the 80’s and 90’s the ford lineup was much larger with multiple entries in several segments. I thought they got away from that to save money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) The important part in CUV is the crossover bit, most if not all of them are car based, so yeah there's an evolutionary route where station wagons and hatchbacks end up becoming Utilities and all of this is now about blurring the lines. Mulally's One Ford was born out of a need to strip Ford back to its essentials and regrow from there, his elimination of vehicles loosely defined as unnecessary duplication was at a time when the company had a lot more platforms to juggle and a SAAR that was about 2/3s of today's. Edited July 19, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 3 hours ago, T-dubz said: I’m also curious how this plan of trying to fill every niche with product will work. Seems like in the 80’s and 90’s the ford lineup was much larger with multiple entries in several segments. I thought they got away from that to save money. They where on different platforms to a point too (Probe/Mustang is the first one to pop into my head)...common platforms/engines with new tophats this go around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 6 hours ago, fordmantpw said: If you ask my wife, her Flex is NOT a station wagon! Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, my friend. Whatever anybody wants to call it, the Flex is a straight-up station wagon. It's not even on stilts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 1 hour ago, SoonerLS said: Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, my friend. Whatever anybody wants to call it, the Flex is a straight-up station wagon. It's not even on stilts. LOL! True dat! Just don't tell the boss and we can all live happily ever after! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) Was Freestyle and Taurus X ahead of their time? Edited July 19, 2019 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Was Taurus X ahead of its time? I think it was more or less bad timing and styling that killed the Freestyle/Taurus X off...gas pricing and boring styling didn't help it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 1 minute ago, silvrsvt said: I think it was more or less bad timing and styling that killed the Freestyle/Taurus X off...gas pricing and boring styling didn't help it. Yeah, the reason I asked was that the plastic arches reminded me of the Ford "Active" treatment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 22 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: I think it was more or less bad timing and styling that killed the Freestyle/Taurus X off...gas pricing and boring styling didn't help it. Boring (or ugly) styling is a standard feature for "crossovers". Freestyle/TaurusX evolved into a unibody Ford Explorer, which sold in decent numbers despite styling that was just as boring.The iconic Explorer nameplate certainly helped. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 14 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Boring (or ugly) styling is a standard feature for "crossovers". Freestyle/TaurusX evolved into a unibody Ford Explorer, which sold in decent numbers despite styling that was just as boring.The iconic Explorer nameplate certainly helped. Ford also took the Taurus x in another direction with longer wheelbase Flex and MKT, I just wish they'd used the squarer Flex body on the MKT and made the Flex into a low rider Explorer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 1 hour ago, rperez817 said: Boring (or ugly) styling is a standard feature for "crossovers". Freestyle/TaurusX evolved into a unibody Ford Explorer, which sold in decent numbers despite styling that was just as boring.The iconic Explorer nameplate certainly helped. The 2011 Explorer was a far better looking product then the Stylefree/Taurus X was...the goofy rise to the roof towards the back didn't help them one bit. As for the evolved bit, that is completely misleading-the Explorer is shorter overall, wider and taller then the Taraus X-they shared the same platform, but it wasn't an evolution-more like a different branch on the tree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 19 hours ago, rperez817 said: Successor to Legacy wagon is Levorg. It's not. Subaru discontnued Legacy wagon. Levorg is an Impreza wagon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Car fans are complaining about 'boring' Utes. But years ago, were whining about 'dull' sedans. Now, screaming "Save the sedan!". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 24 minutes ago, bzcat said: It's not. Subaru discontnued Legacy wagon. Levorg is an Impreza wagon. You're right, thanks for the correction bzcat sir. Levorg is about 85 mm shorter than the last Legacy wagon and 65 mm longer than the current Impreza sedan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 What the hell?!! Levorg sounds like some big brained alien that chases the Enterprise in a cube shaped spaceship! Couldn't they come up with something better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, atomcat68 said: What the hell?!! Levorg sounds like some big brained alien that chases the Enterprise in a cube shaped spaceship! Couldn't they come up with something better? Levorg is supposed to be a combination of letters from 3 words. Legacy + Revolution + Touring. That's what made me think it was a Legacy wagon successor before bzcat corrected me. The Japanese have a thing for weird car names. In the 1990s Subaru had a kei van named Sambar Dias Astonish!! (exclamation points are part of the name). Edited July 20, 2019 by rperez817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 11 hours ago, atomcat68 said: What the hell?!! Levorg sounds like some big brained alien that chases the Enterprise in a cube shaped spaceship! Couldn't they come up with something better? Was that you I saw at Wolf 359? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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