fuzzymoomoo Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 hour ago, akirby said: It was reportedly pushed to 2023 but then they backtracked and said 2020 would be the last year. Which is accurate? Ice-capades said in his 2020 Fusion production information thread that his new zone manager confirmed to him that 2020 is indeed the last for Fusion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 14 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Ice-capades said in his 2020 Fusion production information thread that his new zone manager confirmed to him that 2020 is indeed the last for Fusion. Maybe the 2023 was if they kept the current version around. But if they're introducing this new "Fusion", they don't need the old one, so they're cutting it off at 2020. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 hour ago, rmc523 said: Maybe the 2023 was if they kept the current version around. But if they're introducing this new "Fusion", they don't need the old one, so they're cutting it off at 2020. I think you’re on to something there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 3 hours ago, rmc523 said: Maybe the 2023 was if they kept the current version around. But if they're introducing this new "Fusion", they don't need the old one, so they're cutting it off at 2020. This seems plausible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pictor Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 But where will it be made, EU or Mexico, or maybe OAP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 3 hours ago, rmc523 said: Maybe the 2023 was if they kept the current version around. But if they're introducing this new "Fusion", they don't need the old one, so they're cutting it off at 2020. Might this be the vehicle that was designed and approved in record time (for Ford)? Which in turn changed their Fusion plans? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 34 minutes ago, pictor said: But where will it be made, EU or Mexico, or maybe OAP? Probably EU and Mexico. I think OAP keeps next gen Edge and Nautilus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 10 hours ago, akirby said: There is your white space Fusion replacement. If it is on C2 as the article says then this would be built in Mexico and can share the assembly line with other C2 products. So even if they don't sell a lot of them they can easily adjust production with other C2 vehicles as needed. I think it needs more rugged sheetmetal for North America though. More than that, I think people will be more surprised when they see it in the flesh, I think the back end might get more Mondeo hatchback treatment but could be wrong.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) I’m betting on an easier Mondeo with Active treatment- jacked up suspension and hatchback with small bustle, I’m counting on Ford taking the cheapest laziest way to turn Fusion into a crossover Edited July 17, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I like the concept, though I'd like slightly more cargo area. I think that Ford could truly carve out room for their niche "Outback", but it'd have to have the goods and Ford would need to show something like Subaru's charisma and patience to drill it into the market. I won't lie, I'm a huge fan of the Flex (mine recently had a tragic transmission failure, I miss it every day) and think that Ford has room for a stylish, capacious, AWD wagon that draws just enough cues from CUVs to fit within current trends. I love real SUVs, but I'm a musician at night; I also love low lift-over and having a powerful AWD vehicle that can cope with the often slimy streets of western Washington. Hence, I loved my Flex. A vehicle like the one rendered would be a great compromise for people like myself that would own a separate, "real SUV" for actual off-road driving. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 On 7/16/2019 at 5:17 AM, fuzzymoomoo said: OMG No. No way that sells more than 2k a month here. Well thats the numbers the Flex sells around... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 51 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Well thats the numbers the Flex sells around... To me the issue is the excess production capacity Ford will have with the 2 Mexican plants and the Edge/Flex plant once Fusion sedan ends. Will one of the plants be shuttered? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, silvrsvt said: Well thats the numbers the Flex sells around... I think it could handily outsell the Flex, as its boxy appearance is polarizing in this era of rolling melted soap bars. The trick would be actually staying with an ad campaign, something that did NOT happen with the Flex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterC6482 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 53 minutes ago, Trader 10 said: To me the issue is the excess production capacity Ford will have with the 2 Mexican plants and the Edge/Flex plant once Fusion sedan ends. Will one of the plants be shuttered? Hermosillo will be producing Transit vans and a small pickup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, PeterC6482 said: Hermosillo will be producing Transit vans and a small pickup. Yes, but Transit Connect and the pick-up will leave a huge amount of excess capacity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, Trader 10 said: Yes, but Transit Connect and the pick-up will leave a huge amount of excess capacity. Not if they are going to introduce to Mexico, Central and South America too... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, Trader 10 said: Yes, but Transit Connect and the pick-up will leave a huge amount of excess capacity. Add in the Fusion Sport wagon or whatever you want to call it. The TC sells around 30-50K units a year Figure the small pickup should do the same Then add in the Fusion Sport Wagon The other Mexican plant would be Model E, figure about 30-50K units a year and the Scout should be anywhere from 60-100K units year. Still need some place to build the entry level product Ford is working on also Need a replacement for the MKZ/Continental some place too, but I'd assume that would be in Flat Rock. Oakville would need some sort of product when the Flex/MKT go away-but I guess we will find out. I bet the Mexican product plans don't get told till after UAW negotiations are done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Add in the Fusion Sport wagon or whatever you want to call it. The TC sells around 30-50K units a year Figure the small pickup should do the same Then add in the Fusion Sport Wagon The other Mexican plant would be Model E, figure about 30-50K units a year and the Scout should be anywhere from 60-100K units year. Still need some place to build the entry level product Ford is working on also Need a replacement for the MKZ/Continental some place too, but I'd assume that would be in Flat Rock. Oakville would need some sort of product when the Flex/MKT go away-but I guess we will find out. I bet the Mexican product plans don't get told till after UAW negotiations are done. Even using the optimistic side of sales leaves a lot of unused capacity considering the two plant capacities total roughly what - 700,000 units? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Trader 10 said: To me the issue is the excess production capacity Ford will have with the 2 Mexican plants and the Edge/Flex plant once Fusion sedan ends. Will one of the plants be shuttered? No. Remember 3 years ago when they had no capacity to spare? Close a plant now and it becomes a HUGE problem (and an expensive one at that) when the industry makes another upswing and you have to build a new plant. By all accounts they're playing it conservative with the Mexican plant capacity to have room to bring back the Focus or Fusion/Mondeo if the market dictates it. As for Oakville who knows but it seems that even without Flex they can maintain a 2 shift schedule and not be overbuilding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: No. Remember 3 years ago when they had no capacity to spare? Close a plant now and it becomes a HUGE problem (and an expensive one at that) when the industry makes another upswing and you have to build a new plant. By all accounts they're playing it conservative with the Mexican plant capacity to have room to bring back the Focus or Fusion/Mondeo if the market dictates it. As for Oakville who knows but it seems that even without Flex they can maintain a 2 shift schedule and not be overbuilding. Good points. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I can't find that presentation but when the new Escape came out, I think Farley said they will try to have 2 or 3 utilities in each segment from sporty/car like all the way to rugged looking or off road focused. So this totally fits with that strategy. Sporty/car like vs. family/middle of the road vs. off road/rugged looking Fiesta Active vs. Puma vs. EcoSport Focus Active vs. Escape/Kuga vs. Scout Fusion/Mondeo Active vs. Edge vs. Bronco Taurus Active vs. Explorer vs. Everest Ok... Taurus Active is a joke ? but that space is currently occupied by Flex and while Ford is going to stop making it soon, it doesn't mean that concept won't return in the future, especially if Fusion Active end up being successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I still think Mexico will be needed for Escape/Corsair overflow at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) 41 minutes ago, bzcat said: I can't find that presentation but when the new Escape came out, I think Farley said they will try to have 2 or 3 utilities in each segment from sporty/car like all the way to rugged looking or off road focused. So this totally fits with that strategy. Sporty/car like vs. family/middle of the road vs. off road/rugged looking Fiesta Active vs. Puma vs. EcoSport Focus Active vs. Escape/Kuga vs. Scout Fusion/Mondeo Active vs. Edge vs. Bronco Taurus Active vs. Explorer vs. Everest Ok... Taurus Active is a joke ? but that space is currently occupied by Flex and while Ford is going to stop making it soon, it doesn't mean that concept won't return in the future, especially if Fusion Active end up being successful. Perhaps next gen Edge/Nautilus adopts the Chinese 3-row Edge back end as better alignment with "SUV" buyer expectations, especially now that Explorer has much longer wheelbase.. 17 minutes ago, akirby said: I still think Mexico will be needed for Escape/Corsair overflow at some point. This is a very good point as originally, Ford wanted to move Corsair to Mexico so clearly wanting as much flexibility as possible. You can tell that Ford wants to use flex plants to be able to switch and change the product mix as needed, there are so many great products coming that you have to wonder how Ford will make it all fit. I don't think it's pick and stick anymore, they need plenty of variety to follow buyer interest..... Amazing that vehicles like Ecosport and Fiesta have seen an up turn in sales, maybe it's same situation as Fusion, a mix of lower trim mix and Incentives or simply buyers moving to the smaller Fords now that Escape is gone.....which reminds me that's another possible re-entry product at later date, although a few years back, Focus Active did not clinic well, maybe it's a good niche in certain states or regions? Edited July 17, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 27 minutes ago, akirby said: I still think Mexico will be needed for Escape/Corsair overflow at some point. I don't think so. Too much competition in this segment, even from Ford (Bronco Scout). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Trader 10 said: I don't think so. Too much competition in this segment, even from Ford (Bronco Scout). I dunno, a fresh Equinox has no trouble selling upwards of 38K-40K in a good month even with Terrain knocking out 8,000 Remember that Escape is that old, it came to the US as a re-packaged 2008 Kuga, a fresh Escape will do better, Ford is also looking to have premium pricing on Bronco Scout, I heard starting at late 20s or early 30s. Edited July 17, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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