silvrsvt Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 https://www.autonews.com/technology/dual-clutch-gearbox-complaints-haunt-ford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 We all have been saying this since 2014 at least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70 Stang Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 I'm sure Fields won't be so kind to Ford when he testifies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 16 minutes ago, 70 Stang said: I'm sure Fields won't be so kind to Ford when he testifies. But wasn't he the one in charge when that POS transmission was selected? If so, can't totally bad mouth it and/or Ford. Because he WAS Ford at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Shocker! In other news, water is wet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30 OTT 6 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 1 hour ago, 92merc said: But wasn't he the one in charge when that POS transmission was selected? If so, can't totally bad mouth it and/or Ford. Because he WAS Ford at the time. Allan Mullaly was CEO during development and launch of GEN3 Focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 12 minutes ago, 30 OTT 6 said: Allan Mullaly was CEO during development and launch of GEN3 Focus. And Dennis Kuzak was the product guy back then. There were rumors several years back, that Kuzak retired because of the Powershift transmission problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnm Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 And yet they continued to stuff this turd of a transmission into what I think could have been a fantastic car, for another 5 years after all the problems began to surface. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Originally it was going to have the Wet version of the transmission. It was determined they could get the same mileage and a lower cost per unit by using the dry version. Some in Engineering were warning of some durability issues with the dry version, but they were painted as "Old Ford" by new leadership, on top of the engineering depts. being gutted of old knowledge in the years during development. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 (edited) It will be year 2029, and owners will get $500 rebate e-coupons for new F series. "Peanuts" Edited July 1, 2019 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 I'm sure the bean counters said NO to replacing the Powershift with a conventional 6 speed auto when it started having problems to save engineering costs, but doing that probably would have saved them millions in the long run. Not to mention the cost of losing your reputation with customers. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Have a 2013 Focus with 92,000 miles. Had the clutch replaced once...took two hours. All costs covered by Ford No other trouble. Guess I might be one of the lucky ones... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarneyFord Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 We rented one. A red hatch right after they came out. Sweet looking car. But the first thing I thought: “What the heck is wrong with this thing?” I was in the small car purchase mode too. So it didn’t make the list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) Mark Fields would have signed a confidentiality clause when he left Ford so I guess he will probably just keep the company line. deflect any blame and point to one of his subordinates not effectively dealing with the situation. He was balls deep in this but I bet you he comes up smelling of roses like Bob Lutz on a GM commentary....... Edited July 2, 2019 by jpd80 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, jasonj80 said: Originally it was going to have the Wet version of the transmission. It was determined they could get the same mileage and a lower cost per unit by using the dry version. Some in Engineering were warning of some durability issues with the dry version, but they were painted as "Old Ford" by new leadership, on top of the engineering depts. being gutted of old knowledge in the years during development. The wet clutch DCT was too expensive, that's why the dry clutch DCT was sourced. Had it simply tooled up for lighter versions of the Ford/GM JV 6F auto, all would have been well. The DCT box came for Ford Europe pressing for it even though its markets were never fully exposed to the consequences of the dry clutch DCT due to the wider use of manual trans and diesels coupled to wet clutch. There were any number of things Ford could have done once the problem was discovered but unfortunately, they chose to keep tinkering with the program, trying to get it reliable in the warranty period, that tells you where their head space was ( not on the customer). Anyone wanting an auto Focus was better off looking elsewhere or leasing a 2.5 auto Fusion with better residual. Edited July 2, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, jasonj80 said: Originally it was going to have the Wet version of the transmission. It was determined they could get the same mileage and a lower cost per unit by using the dry version. Some in Engineering were warning of some durability issues with the dry version, but they were painted as "Old Ford" by new leadership, on top of the engineering depts. being gutted of old knowledge in the years during development. Depends on what you mean by "originally". I worked in Transmission Engineering in about 1985 when the very first Ford designed dual-clutch transmission prototype was built. It had wet clutches. It also used hydraulics to move the shift forks. I did not follow the development after I left that department. By the time I saw it again in about 2006, it had dry clutches and electric actuated shift forks. Both of those saved a lot of weight and cost. Luk was going to be part of a 3 way joint venture with Getrag and Ford. Ultimately, Luk was just a supplier, same as Getrag. Edited July 2, 2019 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 48 minutes ago, jpd80 said: The wet clutch DCT was too expensive, that's why the dry clutch DCT was sourced. Had it simply tooled up for lighter versions of the Ford/GM JV 6F auto, all would have been well. The DCT box came for Ford Europe pressing for it even though its markets were never fully exposed to the consequences of the dry clutch DCT due to the wider use of manual trans and diesels coupled to wet clutch. There were any number of things Ford could have done once the problem was discovered but unfortunately, they chose to keep tinkering with the program, trying to get it reliable in the warranty period, that tells you where their head space was ( not on the customer). Anyone wanting an auto Focus was better off looking elsewhere or leasing a 2.5 auto Fusion with better residual. "Sourced" is not the correct word. It was a key part of the design for a LONG time because it was lighter and cheaper. One thing that never came up in public was that the transmission was designed for "B Class" vehicles like the Fiesta, with a maximum engine size of 1.6L. Most of the development was done on that size vehicles. Very little it anything was changed when they decided to put it in the Focus quoth a larger engine. Whoever spec'd it for the Focus should be the one taking all of the heat ! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 18 minutes ago, theoldwizard said: Whoever spec'd it for the Focus should be the one taking all of the heat ! Let's not ignore the issues with the Fiesta too 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Let's not ignore the issues with the Fiesta too My brother-in-law bought a first-year Fiesta. It was gone within a year, and that was largely because of how the transmission behaved. And he had nothing against Fords, as his other vehicle at the time was a 2010 F-150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 People said the same thing about the twin-traction front suspension on Ford 4X4's of the 80's and 90's..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 4 hours ago, theoldwizard said: Depends on what you mean by "originally". I worked in Transmission Engineering in about 1985 when the very first Ford designed dual-clutch transmission prototype was built. It had wet clutches. It also used hydraulics to move the shift forks. I did not follow the development after I left that department. By the time I saw it again in about 2006, it had dry clutches and electric actuated shift forks. Both of those saved a lot of weight and cost. Luk was going to be part of a 3 way joint venture with Getrag and Ford. Ultimately, Luk was just a supplier, same as Getrag. DPS6 DRY dual clutch 6DCT250 Powershift transmission -While the base design is Getrag’s, the finished transmission bears the stamp of TDE (Ford Motor Company Transmission and Driveline Engineering) engineers. Ford dictated the relevant specifications such as the package envelope, center distance, gear ratios and functional SDS requirements. (Ford)TDE have, for example, full responsibility for calibration and for software development. As a result, (Ford) TDE has more control over how the product drives and feels. While Getrag markets its own version of this transmission, the Ford DPS6 Powershift is differentiated by its software and controls. Ford Motor Company Transmission and Driveline Engineering (TDE) 36200 Plymouth Road Livonia, MI. 48150 I don't believe Ford Europe had their hands in this soup 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) A Ford dealer tech on You Tube blames owners for "driving like a Grandma". Typical "blame the customer." When dealers start closing, he will change his tune Edited July 2, 2019 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, 630land said: A Ford dealer tech on You Tube blames owners for "driving like a Grandma". Typical "blame the customer." When dealers start closing, he will change his tune There's an element of truth to it in this case though. If you don't drive them hard once and a while debris builds up on the clutch packs and wears them out faster. I thought that was pretty well documented. Edited July 2, 2019 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, theoldwizard said: "Sourced" is not the correct word. It was a key part of the design for a LONG time because it was lighter and cheaper. One thing that never came up in public was that the transmission was designed for "B Class" vehicles like the Fiesta, with a maximum engine size of 1.6L. Most of the development was done on that size vehicles. Very little it anything was changed when they decided to put it in the Focus quoth a larger engine. Whoever spec'd it for the Focus should be the one taking all of the heat ! But if you look at the history even the lighter Fiesta with the power shift is also a problem, surely there must have been issues found during development which begs the question we’re engineers permitted to stop the job and tell management there were serious problems? (Rhetorical question btw) Fords top down culture stifled any chance of feedback and improvements during development let alone saying like get rid of this transmission you’ve just spent a bomb on. Edited July 2, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Will this hurt them anymore than 3.8/4.2 head gasket failures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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