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Mpollard

P0016

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My 07 expedition had code p0016 in it. I tore it down put new chains guides and tensioners in it put it back together fires it up and still has this code. I swapped cam sensors and vct solenoids but still has code. Hard to start and rattles when started for a second. Could this be phasers? It idles rough too

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There are a LOT of possibilities. Miss-timed, bent phaser trigger wheel, damaged phaser, stuck control solenoid, low oil pressure. Here in lies the issue with hammering in parts without actually diagnosing it first.

Before you started, did you check base engine oil pressure? Ford claims with the updated solenoids, 15 psi is ok, but in the real world, if it is under 20 PSI hot, in gear, you have bigger problems like scored cam caps or damaged crank thrust bearing. Sometimes a high volume oil pump like the Melling M360-HV will band aid the issues if the engine is not too far gone.

If it runs rough immediately, it is either out of time, the phaser has completely failed or the solenoid is stuck. With the solenoids, DO NOT USE AFTERMARKET PARTS. All the aftermarket solenoids I have come across are poor copies of the NON-updated Ford solenoids. You MUST use the updated Ford solenoids. Chances are, even with poor quality solenoids, it is a base timing issue (easy to miss a tooth) or possibly the phaser itself. Once in a while the gasket will blow out of the control block behind the phaser and cause issues or the tiny oil passages in the control block will get gunked up from filter media coming apart (cough cough Fram cough cough).  

Something to consider are phaser lockouts. They are non-emissions legal, but work fine for an "offroad" vehicle. 

What method did you use to time it? You lay the chain out straight and mark the end links. Then put one marked end link on the crank timing mark and the other marked end link on the cam timing mark. It is easy to mis-time them.  

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I took the back of the phasers off to look for broken vanes inside. Leaving one screw in that holds apring tension   The chains had three black links in them.   When I took it apart it had blew a head gasket. I put 12 volts on the vvt solenoid and it moves free. The phaser is the only thing I can think of. Since it was showing this code before and after.  Would a bad phaser on passenger side make it run rough at idle and be hard to start? When I turn the phaser bolt the front of the phaser will turn a little. Is that normal? I just don’t want to tear it down change phaser and then have to do it again to time it again 

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It could very well be the phaser itself unable to move correctly. Yes, the bolt moves some because that is how the phaser varies timing of the cam in relation to the chain. The "oil gauge" means nothing. It literally is a mechanical idiot light that shows low at 7-9 psi. Will read the same all the time as long as it has that 7-9 psi. Engine HAS to have 20 in the real world, HOT, at idle, in gear so there is a huge gap between the "gauge" and what it needs to operate correctly.  

Black marks - did you verify that the links were laid out right on the chains, especially since they are aftermarket parts? Are you sure that the "L" for driver's side and "R"  for passenger's side were both pointed up when you timed it? 

The phaser can be changed out without removing the timing cover with the proper tools. 

 

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On 6/10/2019 at 8:29 PM, Mpollard said:

I can also unplug the solenoids and cam sensors with no change in running. Oil pressure on gauge actually shows a little high

I don't know when this started, but the dash oil pressure "gauge" s actually an idiot light.  The oil pressure "sensor" is just a switch and the dash computer just puts a up a constant gauge position or zero.   The only way to check pressure is remove the switch and temporarily install a gauge.

Edited by theoldwizard

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