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edselford

Will there be a 7.3 liter engine family??

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I just wonder if the 7.3 gas V8 engine will spawn different displacement variations? Maybe a 6.6V8 and an 8.0 liter V8 for heavy duty truck applications. The 6.6 could completely replace the current 6.2V8

Also, an. Aluminum block 7.0 V8 might be possible for Mustang and Light truck. Applications. (107.2mm  X 97mm)

Does anyone know the bore center on the new 7.3V8?  Some time ago I Suggested 117mm but That was a guess looking at the blocks in the Windsor engine plant annex.

Probably very close to the old FE series V8 of 4.63”??????

edselford

 

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I doubt it, they've been pretty adamant that they've taken a lot of money they were investing into new gas engines and putting that into hybrid/BEV technology 

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An interesting derivative would be a V6 version for use in fleet applications of F150/E-Series/Stripped Chassis but like Fuzzy said, with emerging trends, you will see more investment in hybrid and battery only tech. I don't think you will ever see a 7.0L Mustang...unless gasoline drops to .50 cents a gallon. Maybe a V6 derivative with a hybrid mode 10 speed auto in F250?

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Without knowing the physical dimensions of the 7.3, it looks to me like it won't physically fit under the hood of a Mustang. It looks like it's too tall to me. 

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Again, listening to the chief engineer on the project, this motor IS a truck engine-specifically a medium duty truck engine.  And he was also very specific that 7.3 L was the optimal displacement for the design.  At least that is what I took from the interview.  Not to say it could not be built to a lesser displacement.

 

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Just now, Bob Rosadini said:

Again, listening to the chief engineer on the project, this motor IS a truck engine-specifically a medium duty truck engine.  And he was also very specific that 7.3 L was the optimal displacement for the design.  At least that is what I took from the interview.  Not to say it could not be built to a lesser displacement.

Yup, that's what he said--it was designed specifically for its purpose, and it was optimized around those parameters. That indicates to me that a family of engines is highly unlikely, if not completely off the table.

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6 hours ago, edselford said:

I just wonder if the 7.3 gas V8 engine will spawn different displacement variations? Maybe a 6.6V8 and an 8.0 liter V8 for heavy duty truck applications. The 6.6 could completely replace the current 6.2V8

Also, an. Aluminum block 7.0 V8 might be possible for Mustang and Light truck. Applications. (107.2mm  X 97mm)

Does anyone know the bore center on the new 7.3V8?  Some time ago I Suggested 117mm but That was a guess looking at the blocks in the Windsor engine plant annex.

Probably very close to the old FE series V8 of 4.63”??????

edselford

 

much as it pains me to say, a big block is not in Mustang's future, especially when a hybrid V8 is just around the corner.

Large capacity V8s are now just too thirsty for CAFE without some sort of cylinder deactivation, even GM's 6.2 is starting to struggle.

The 6.2 V8 is not going anywhere, not when it's around 50% of Super Duty sales.

Edited by jpd80

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V-8's are NOT necessarily too thirsty for CAFE.  Remember CAFE is a fleet average, and does not cover larger commercial vehicles.  GHG is driving commercial vehicle fuel economy in a round-about fashion, and they way the regulations are written the heavier the vehicle the more lenient the standard.  In any event, CAFE will be progressively skewed by increasing hybrid and BEV sales, and this should provide 'room' for a few less-efficient high performance vehicles.

But about the 7.3L, I heard rumors that a smaller @5.8L could be made to replace the 6.2L, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.  The 7.3L assembly line is a low volume operation (in a shed out behind Windsor!), so I don't think Ford is seeing many 7.3L sales beyond F-450 and larger commercial trucks.   

 

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38 minutes ago, 7Mary3 said:

BTW- GM is expanding availability of their 6.2L V-8 into more Silverado and Sierra models for 2020.

Because the other engine options are not competitive in the half ton class?

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4 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

V-8's are NOT necessarily too thirsty for CAFE.  Remember CAFE is a fleet average, and does not cover larger commercial vehicles.  GHG is driving commercial vehicle fuel economy in a round-about fashion, and they way the regulations are written the heavier the vehicle the more lenient the standard.  In any event, CAFE will be progressively skewed by increasing hybrid and BEV sales, and this should provide 'room' for a few less-efficient high performance vehicles.

CAFE is not simply the average fuel economy of all Trucks or all cars , it's calculated using the harmonic mean, the inverse of all fuel economies. so when Auto companies have gas guzzlers, they pull down CAFE numbers much more than expected to prevent auto companies sneaking a few hybrid  ringers in under the tent to square things away.

Also, Heavy duty trucks now have EPA fuel economy targets of around 10% improvements but these are more directly related to loaded conditions, which is why Ford's 6.2 and 7.3 gas engines will be safe.

 

 

Sure GM is expanding the availability of its  6.2 v8 in Silverado and Sierra but look closely and those options are still on higher trims to dissuade too many buyers....it's not like they are making it a complete side by side option with the 5.3 V8.

 

 

Edited by jpd80

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True about CAFE, but GM's upcoming BEV push will nonetheless influence their numbers significantly.  Ford's 6.2 and 7.3 are safe, as are GM's 6.2, 6.6, and 8+L.  And GM's 6.2L is a 'premium' engine and is still restricted to higher trim levels, but nonetheless more in 2020.  They have room in their CAFE to offer it.

The company I expect to have trouble with CAFE in coming years is FCA.

 

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I still believe the only "derivative" to the new 7.3L gas Windsor motor would be a V6 version which would work out to 5.475 liters in size. Round it up to 5.5 liters and pair it with a hybrid 10 speed automatic and put it in as an option for Super Duty. I believe it would be a winning combo for fleet use. 

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9 hours ago, twintornados said:

I still believe the only "derivative" to the new 7.3L gas Windsor motor would be a V6 version which would work out to 5.475 liters in size. Round it up to 5.5 liters and pair it with a hybrid 10 speed automatic and put it in as an option for Super Duty. I believe it would be a winning combo for fleet use. 

That would make a great base engine for F250/350 and E Series as well. It could/would/should replace the orphaned 6.2.

My only wish is that it's an inline six instead of a V, keeping the same bore/stroke, bore spacing, deck height, etc.  An inline really isn't any more work since the block, heads and crank have to be re-engineered going from a V8 to V6 anyways.  It's mostly a legacy of the old 300 and the Cummins BT6, but truck people have a lot more respect for straight sixes than vee sixes.

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Ford tried a V6 based on the 6.4L PowerStroke V8 and failed. The 4.5L V6 had problems and didn't last long in production. Was it because of how the already-unreliable 6.4L V8 engine was designed when being made into V6 that made unreliable? Or is it the fact that the 90-degree V angle of V6 will cause problems with NVH issues when it should be 60-degree V angle? I thought that is one general issue of how a V8-into-V6 don't normally work. What was it about the 4.5L PowerStroke V6 that failed? I wouldn't think the 5.5L V6 based on new 7.3L V8 would work unless I got something wrong here.

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It was based on the 6.0L diesel.  Nuff said.

Plus it suffered from NVH issues.  I'm not sure the reason behind that, but that was why it was never put in an F150.

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1 hour ago, fordmantpw said:

It was based on the 6.0L diesel.  Nuff said.

Plus it suffered from NVH issues.  I'm not sure the reason behind that, but that was why it was never put in an F150.

Yeah the 6.0L/6.4L were bad engines. But I wasn't sure if that's why the 4.5L V6 was bad or if it's the general process of turning the V8 into the V6 is bad. The NVH from the 4.5L was what I thought was from turning the V8 into V6 due to 90-degree V angle for V6 when it should be 60-degrees. Just like there were some NVH issues with the 6.8L V10 due to the added cylinders to the 5.4L V8 engine turning it from 90-degree V8 into 90-degree V10. But Ford at least put counter-rotation shaft on it and done other things to try and fix the balancing issues with the V10. But I'm also wondering if NVH itself was from the bad 6.0L/6.4L. I was just wanting to know for sure. Otherwise, Ford should do the V8-into-V6 for the 7.3L-based 5.5L V6 if the NVH issues can be resolved along with other modifications to make the new V6 a success for Super Duty and E-Series lineups.

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On 5/29/2019 at 7:46 AM, 30 OTT 6 said:

The Mustang needs a diet, not a bigger engine.

I remember when people were lambasting MN-12's curb weight. Now it's almost identical to the current Mustang. 

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On 5/29/2019 at 9:09 PM, 7Mary3 said:

I remember a good V-6:

http://6066gmcguy.com/gmcv6a.html

Anyway, I think a small version of the 6.2L V-8 would make more sense.

That was very interesting and a "kinda sorta" big F-U to the straight six crowd back in the day. It was also interesting to see just how big they made them...478 cu. in. (7.8L for the metric crowd) and put down some serious HP and torque numbers...very impressive. 

Edited by twintornados

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