Jump to content
  • Custom Search


fordtech1

Ford to reveal Mach e later this year

Recommended Posts

15 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Ive been told enough times that Cuautitlan gets Model E and Puma, the fiesta replacement 

transitConnect, the compact pick up and baby Bronco are Hermosillo and those products will ramp up as Fusion fades away in CY 2021

This doesn't jive, though.  baby Bronco in CY 2021??  And it's supposed to come out before Bronco?  That'd make Bronco a 2022 product then, which makes no sense - that's another 2 years from now?  Plus the talk of Fusion living until 2023 now.

Where would Puma go from Mexico though if it's not coming here?

Edited by rmc523

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Where would Puma go from Mexico though if it's not coming here?

South and Central American markets, Mexican market.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, twintornados said:

South and Central American markets, Mexican market.

Whoops, I for some reason was thinking they exited South America altogether - it was just the trucks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, twintornados said:

South and Central American markets, Mexican market.

But at that point, why not sell it in the USA? Its going to be a better product then the Ecosport (which seems to be selling pretty well in my area from what I see on the road)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

But at that point, why not sell it in the USA? Its going to be a better product then the Ecosport (which seems to be selling pretty well in my area from what I see on the road)

The only reason not to sell it in NA is if they have a better product to fit that market space.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

But at that point, why not sell it in the USA? Its going to be a better product then the Ecosport (which seems to be selling pretty well in my area from what I see on the road)

Do any subcompact suv/cuvs  sell well? Could be a regional thing but I hardly ever see any of them on the road. Maybe a Honda hrv and a Nissan Juke here and there but that’s about it. The cx3 has been out for a long time and I’ve seen maybe 2 on the road? I don’t think I’ve even seen chevys subcompact, and I’ve seen exactly 1 ecosport. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, akirby said:

The only reason not to sell it in NA is if they have a better product to fit that market space.

Given the fact that the Scout/Maverick is most likely cost MORE then the Escape does and well the Ecosport is a barely tarted up 3rd world vehicle...I'd say they have a slot to fill.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

Do any subcompact suv/cuvs  sell well? Could be a regional thing but I hardly ever see any of them on the road. Maybe a Honda hrv and a Nissan Juke here and there but that’s about it. The cx3 has been out for a long time and I’ve seen maybe 2 on the road? I don’t think I’ve even seen chevys subcompact, and I’ve seen exactly 1 ecosport. 

I see HR-V, CH-R, and Traxx everywhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

Do any subcompact suv/cuvs  sell well? Could be a regional thing but I hardly ever see any of them on the road. Maybe a Honda hrv and a Nissan Juke here and there but that’s about it. The cx3 has been out for a long time and I’ve seen maybe 2 on the road? I don’t think I’ve even seen chevys subcompact, and I’ve seen exactly 1 ecosport. 

Here's a chart:
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2019/01/small-suv-sales-in-america-december-2018/

The Ecosport sold 54K units in 2018 vs 51K for the Fiesta.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, akirby said:

The only reason not to sell it in NA is if they have a better product to fit that market space.

I'm surprised they don't just take the Escape/baby Bronco approach - offer the Puma (as pointed out, it's being built "down the street") and then a blocky "off road" companion model.

I presume any US-intended product would be on the same platform and built alongside the Puma, no?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

I dunno-it would add up pretty quickly-

Mach E-50-75k

Scout-50-100k

C Pickup 50k

TC-40-70k

Mach E will be an expensive vehicle - I doubt it will sell 50K if that. I'm with you on Scout but I'm wondering how many of those sales come at the expense of the Escape. I can't imagine TC anywhere close to that range - it sold in the 32 to 35K range the past couple of calendar years and the new pickup will surely steal a few sales from it. I don't think there's a market for 50,000 little trucks unless its priced dirt cheap and you know Ford won't do that. Just my guesses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Trader 10 said:

Mach E will be an expensive vehicle - I doubt it will sell 50K if that. I'm with you on Scout but I'm wondering how many of those sales come at the expense of the Escape. I can't imagine TC anywhere close to that range - it sold in the 32 to 35K range the past couple of calendar years and the new pickup will surely steal a few sales from it. I don't think there's a market for 50,000 little trucks unless its priced dirt cheap and you know Ford won't do that. Just my guesses.

Agreed - Mach E will be lucky to sell 2K/month and will probably be closer to 1K.  Which is fine - it's not supposed to be a big volume seller.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, twintornados said:

South and Central American markets, Mexican market.

Wasn't Puma an Europe-only product?

Where will Ford produce that "quickly-approved project of a C2-based entry crossover"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Trader 10 said:

Mach E will be an expensive vehicle - I doubt it will sell 50K if that. I'm with you on Scout but I'm wondering how many of those sales come at the expense of the Escape. I can't imagine TC anywhere close to that range - it sold in the 32 to 35K range the past couple of calendar years and the new pickup will surely steal a few sales from it. I don't think there's a market for 50,000 little trucks unless its priced dirt cheap and you know Ford won't do that. Just my guesses.

Here are the TC sales over the years, I thought it sold a bit better then that. 
 

Year Total
2009 8,834
2010 27,405
2011 31,914
2012 37,521
2013 39,703
2014 43,210
2015 52,221
2016 43,232
2017 34,473
2018 31,923
2019

8,940

As for the Mach E-yes, it won't sell in huge numbers, but I think it will sell better then 1K units a month-if the EV market is growing like it is. Its getting launched into the hottest segment and seems like it won't give much up to its gas powered rivals. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Trader 10 said:

Mach E will be an expensive vehicle - I doubt it will sell 50K if that. I'm with you on Scout but I'm wondering how many of those sales come at the expense of the Escape. I can't imagine TC anywhere close to that range - it sold in the 32 to 35K range the past couple of calendar years and the new pickup will surely steal a few sales from it. I don't think there's a market for 50,000 little trucks unless its priced dirt cheap and you know Ford won't do that. Just my guesses.

They're probably counting on the c-pickup to unlock an untapped market.

1 minute ago, silvrsvt said:

Here are the TC sales over the years, I thought it sold a bit better then that. 
 

Year Total
2009 8,834
2010 27,405
2011 31,914
2012 37,521
2013 39,703
2014 43,210
2015 52,221
2016 43,232
2017 34,473
2018 31,923
2019

8,940

As for the Mach E-yes, it won't sell in huge numbers, but I think it will sell better then 1K units a month-if the EV market is growing like it is. Its getting launched into the hottest segment and seems like it won't give much up to its gas powered rivals. 

 

I wonder what happened in 2015 that caused so many TC sales that year, and why sales have dropped since?  It's at 11,966 through April, which is on pace for just under 36k this year.

I wonder if being produced "locally" (NA) will help sales numbers, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mach-E sales will depend a lot on pricing.  The lower the price the higher the sales and vice versa regardless of everything else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

I dunno-it would add up pretty quickly-

Mach E-50-75k

Scout-50-100k

C Pickup 50k

TC-40-70k

I feel like you’re overestimating Mach E and C Pickup, at least initial demand. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, rmc523 said:

This doesn't jive, though.  baby Bronco in CY 2021??  And it's supposed to come out before Bronco?  That'd make Bronco a 2022 product then, which makes no sense - that's another 2 years from now?  Plus the talk of Fusion living until 2023 now.

Where would Puma go from Mexico though if it's not coming here?

Bronco is listed on Ford's website (future vehicles section) as a 2021 now. It was listed as a 2020 basically since it was announced. 

3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

But at that point, why not sell it in the USA? Its going to be a better product then the Ecosport (which seems to be selling pretty well in my area from what I see on the road)

Because it's probably too similar in size to the outgoing Escape with less features if I had to guess. That's a recipe for disaster in North America. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

They're probably counting on the c-pickup to unlock an untapped market.

I wonder what happened in 2015 that caused so many TC sales that year, and why sales have dropped since?  It's at 11,966 through April, which is on pace for just under 36k this year.

I wonder if being produced "locally" (NA) will help sales numbers, though.

Ford got sued by the Treasury Department in 2016 for tax evasion so they drastically reduced the volume of Transit Connect imported. Ford decided to temporarily pay the chicken tax while the case was going thru the legal process. Ford won the case in lower courts very quickly but the Treasury appealed so the final outcome is still pending.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, bzcat said:

Ford got sued by the Treasury Department in 2016 for tax evasion so they drastically reduced the volume of Transit Connect imported. Ford decided to temporarily pay the chicken tax while the case was going thru the legal process. Ford won the case in lower courts very quickly but the Treasury appealed so the final outcome is still pending.

This is probably the main reason for moving TC to Mexico now that they have capacity for it there. Chicken Tax aside I've always gotten the impression sales were being stunted by long wait times for delivery 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The long supply chain can be overcome by adequate inventory  - e.g. see EcoSport.

However, the problem with Transit Connect is Ford couldn't offer that many build variation due to that long supply chain... (cost too much in inventory cost to stock every build combination) - something its fleet customers were not accustomed to. They had been spoiled in essence by the crazy assortment of build variations available on Ford's other commercial trucks and vans.

But despite that, Ford still moved more than 50k in 2015 and was probably on pace to keep growing that business until the chicken tax lawsuit.

Moving assembly to Mexico will help Ford expand the fleet business significantly and I'm sure volume will surge.

Here is more detail on the lawsuit if you want to read it (from March 2019): https://www.autonews.com/automakers-suppliers/what-ford-van-tariff-engineering-case-could-mean-trade-war

U.S. Customs challenged the practice, accusing Ford of improperly masking its intentions. The Court of International Trade ruled in Ford's favor in 2017, but the government has appealed, and the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit heard oral arguments Monday.

~~~

The court said that the Ford vans were properly classified on import, and that Customs went too far in questioning Ford's intent for manufacturing the vans. "Parsing manufacturing steps and the reasons behind those steps in an effort to uncover disguise or artifice threatens to turn the concept of legitimate tariff engineering on its head," the court said.

In a brief filed for this week's appeal hearing, the government focused on the classification's wording: a vehicle "principally designed for the transport of persons" rather than goods. Ford's "scheme" of designing and marketing the vehicle as a cargo van and using a "stripped down" version of the seats to be removed shows it should be subject to the higher duty, the government said.

But Ford argued in its brief that goods must be classified in their condition as imported, regardless of whether they are later altered — and that the vans, as imported, had the features of a passenger vehicle.

Edited by bzcat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Bronco is listed on Ford's website (future vehicles section) as a 2021 now. It was listed as a 2020 basically since it was announced.

Maybe the Bronco push-back to '21 helps fast-track the next-gen Ranger, since both would be sharing similar frame architecture at MAP?

I dunno?  HRG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

Maybe the Bronco push-back to '21 helps fast-track the next-gen Ranger, since both would be sharing similar frame architecture at MAP?

I dunno?  HRG

Rumor is NG Ranger is MY2023. It doesn't seem like the Bronco schedule ever had anything to do with the schedule for that but that's just my opinion 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Bronco is listed on Ford's website (future vehicles section) as a 2021 now. It was listed as a 2020 basically since it was announced. 

Because it's probably too similar in size to the outgoing Escape with less features if I had to guess. That's a recipe for disaster in North America. 

Hm.  I see it still says "coming in 2020" , but I'm guessing means they'll show it toward the end of 2020, and it'll be a 2021 MY.

I don't see why it being similar in size to the outgoing Escape would matter?  Features, sure, but I can't see Europe putting up with that with a lack of features either.

55 minutes ago, bzcat said:

Ford got sued by the Treasury Department in 2016 for tax evasion so they drastically reduced the volume of Transit Connect imported. Ford decided to temporarily pay the chicken tax while the case was going thru the legal process. Ford won the case in lower courts very quickly but the Treasury appealed so the final outcome is still pending.

Oh, well that makes sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, rmc523 said:

This doesn't jive, though.  baby Bronco in CY 2021?? 

I never sad that, I said that Fusion balances out in 2021,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×