IMSA-XJR9 Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 https://www.autonews.com/design/ford-debuts-new-transmission-system-power-next-gen-hybrids Quote Over the next few years, the automaker plans hybrid versions of its F-150 pickup, Bronco SUV and Explorer crossover, among other vehicles. It promises they'll be able to venture off road, tow boats and haul around multiple golfbags or suit cases. To deliver on those capability claims, engineers developed a new transmission system, dubbed "modular hybrid technology," that debuts later this year on the 2020 Explorer. The system, featuring an electric motor, clutch and torque converter, not only improve fuel economy on Ford's larger vehicles, but also provides more power. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 (edited) No real technical details on hoe it works. Edited May 17, 2019 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 1 hour ago, theoldwizard said: No real technical details on hoe it works. Give it time, I'm sure that will come out eventually. If nothing else, a third party will probably get their hands on one and tear it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 On the upcoming Explorer hybrid, for example, the electric motor will put out 44 hp. When coupled with the vehicle's 3.3-liter V-6 engine, it will generate 318 hp and 322 pound-feet of torque. It will also be able to tow up to 5,000 pounds and have a 500-mile range. I wonder if Aviator's will be the same power for the electric motor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 25 minutes ago, rmc523 said: I wonder if Aviator's will be the same power for the electric motor? I don't think so because this one isn't designed to propel the vehicle by itself - only in conjunction with the ICE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 (edited) Edited May 17, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 The disconnect clutch and motor of a parallel type hybrid electric vehicle are repositioned within the wet zone of an automatic transmission to compactly and efficiently reconfigure a drive line using a motor and transmission assembly. A drive shell is provided interposed between the engine output and the disconnect clutch input which surrounds the torque converter enabling the torque converter to move independent to the engine output shaft. The resulting structure is compact and provides good structural support and cooling for the disconnect clutch and motor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 (edited) This is an older This is an older hybrid system patented by Ford that incorporates the hybrid motor and disconnect clutch within the wet area of the gearbox for added cooling. The above is for a six-speed auto adaption but I suspect that the 10-speed application is similar but in a better way incorporating 90% of the stand alone 10AT's parts. I'm having browser issues ATM but if you look at the Explorer hybrid cutaways, I think you'll get an idea of the changes. Edited May 17, 2019 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theDuff Posted May 18, 2019 Share Posted May 18, 2019 Ah, the 10R80MHT finally makes its debut. I saw one of these firsthand last winter. The unit bolts to the front of the bell housing, but does not add that much length. Maybe 4 inches? Its serviced as an assembly with the torque converter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30 OTT 6 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 This explains FoMoCo's sudden re-embrace of RWD platforms. An electric motor - transaxle setup wouldn't package very well in FWD vehicle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 15 hours ago, 30 OTT 6 said: This explains FoMoCo's sudden re-embrace of RWD platforms. An electric motor - transaxle setup wouldn't package very well in FWD vehicle. In the grand scheme of things, it makes too much sense to share powertrains between products that roughly sell well over a million units a year combined F-150/Explorer/Ranger/Mustang/Transit plus Lincoln products and the upcoming Bronco. The pricing of the new Explorer and sophistication levels required for the Aviator made it a no brainier to move to a RWD platform. The F-150 does the heavy lifting to pay for the program and the rest benefit for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Sounds like Ford is sticking with the Toyota derived power-split architecture for its front drive transverse applications and introducing a new P2 architecture for rear drive longitudinal applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 42 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: In the grand scheme of things, it makes too much sense to share powertrains between products that roughly sell well over a million units a year combined F-150/Explorer/Ranger/Mustang/Transit plus Lincoln products and the upcoming Bronco. The pricing of the new Explorer and sophistication levels required for the Aviator made it a no brainier to move to a RWD platform. The F-150 does the heavy lifting to pay for the program and the rest benefit for it. and on that theme, it's interesting with Ford's shift in emphasis has been away from comparatively lower profit FWD/AWD vehicles to generally more profitable RWD based vehicles.It keeps underscoring to me that while vehicles under $30K are far from loss makers, they don't add significantly to profits and this is a big issue for Ford, particularly in ROW markets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Sounds like Ford is sticking with the Toyota derived power-split architecture for its front drive transverse applications and introducing a new P2 architecture for rear drive longitudinal applications. And why shouldn't they as Toyota has made a lot of those patents free to use until 2030 (as of April 2019) Quote 04 April 2019 https://www.caradvice.com.au/742995/toyota-makes-its-hybrid-vehicle-patents-free-to-use/ Toyota makes its hybrid vehicle patents free to use Toyota will make roughly 23,740 electrified vehicle patents available for royalty-free use until the end of 2030, as it looks to drive development of hybrid vehicles around the world. The automaker says it's making the move to "further promote the widespread use of electrified vehicles, and in so doing, help governments, automakers, and society at large accomplish goals related to climate change". The suite of patents comes from over 20 years of research and development, and includes technology for hybrid, plug-in hybrid and hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles, as well as electric motors, power control units, and system controls. In addition to opening up its patent library, Toyota will provide technical support to any manufacturers who use its electric drivetrain technology. Unlike the patents themselves, these consultation services will not be free. Edited May 20, 2019 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 17 minutes ago, jpd80 said: and on that theme, it's interesting with Ford's shift in emphasis has been away from comparatively lower profit FWD/AWD vehicles to generally more profitable RWD based vehicles.It keeps underscoring to me that while vehicles under $30K are far from loss makers, they don't add significantly to profits and this is a big issue for Ford, particularly in ROW markets. My concern with the Explorer is that, as good a vehicle as it looks like it will be, sales will decrease due to the large price increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Trader 10 said: My concern with the Explorer is that, as good a vehicle as it looks like it will be, sales will decrease due to the large price increase. From what has been posted before-most higher end Explorers are leased vs purchased-Ford has that information and is acting accordingly to it. I've seen alot more Explorer Sports vs Taurus SHO's over the years-even with the Sports pricing increasing considerably over the past few years. There are other market factors at play with this too, but if you can sell/lease a $50K+ CUV without much in incentives vs a $4500 incentive on a $47K car thats on the same platform-your doing alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Trader 10 said: My concern with the Explorer is that, as good a vehicle as it looks like it will be, sales will decrease due to the large price increase. They were selling a large number of higher priced Explorers already - that's what prompted them to continue the CD6 program in the first place. Why does it matter if you sell 20% fewer vehicles if you make more money? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, akirby said: They were selling a large number of higher priced Explorers already - that's what prompted them to continue the CD6 program in the first place. Why does it matter if you sell 20% fewer vehicles if you make more money? I guess it doesn't if you don't care about your dealers or factory efficiency (I suppose you can just close a factory or two). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 1 hour ago, akirby said: They were selling a large number of higher priced Explorers already - that's what prompted them to continue the CD6 program in the first place. Why does it matter if you sell 20% fewer vehicles if you make more money? catch 22...you sell 1 car for X, or 4 cars for Y....say the profit is the same...now lets bring in servicing and maintenance....and Im a firm believer in keeping a cap on MSRPs...exhibit A) how big is the market for a $100k Superduty, compared with a $75k Superduty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 16 minutes ago, Deanh said: catch 22...you sell 1 car for X, or 4 cars for Y....say the profit is the same...now lets bring in servicing and maintenance....and Im a firm believer in keeping a cap on MSRPs...exhibit A) how big is the market for a $100k Superduty, compared with a $75k Superduty. I don't think Ford is pulling a 1996 Taurus here either-I think they have the information in hand and the math figured out behind it. Its not like a you still can't get a pretty well equipped Explorer for $40K or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 3 hours ago, jpd80 said: and on that theme, it's interesting with Ford's shift in emphasis has been away from comparatively lower profit FWD/AWD vehicles to generally more profitable RWD based vehicles.It keeps underscoring to me that while vehicles under $30K are far from loss makers, they don't add significantly to profits and this is a big issue for Ford, particularly in ROW markets. The only question/concern is - do those cheaper products truly act as "gateway" cars (models that get someone in the brand, and they move upwards in the lineup as they get older/have more to spend), or not? By skipping out on cheaper offerings, do companies miss out on that stair stepping? I know they'll still have lower-priced crossovers to help this, but only time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 16 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: I don't think Ford is pulling a 1996 Taurus here either-I think they have the information in hand and the math figured out behind it. Its not like a you still can't get a pretty well equipped Explorer for $40K or so. Eh, I was looking at it last night since we're looking at buying in fall. A 2020 Explorer XLT with no options added except for the comfort package (which adds heated front seats, heated steering wheel and heated wiper park) is close to 40k A-plan.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Trader 10 said: I guess it doesn't if you don't care about your dealers or factory efficiency (I suppose you can just close a factory or two). 1 hour ago, Deanh said: catch 22...you sell 1 car for X, or 4 cars for Y....say the profit is the same...now lets bring in servicing and maintenance....and Im a firm believer in keeping a cap on MSRPs...exhibit A) how big is the market for a $100k Superduty, compared with a $75k Superduty. Way to exaggerate guys. We're only talking about raising the price a few thousand, not tens of thousands or 4 times the price. And last I looked Explorer and Aviator were made in one factory so they can't close it. There should still be plenty of volume to keep one plant busy even is sales drop a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 1 hour ago, rmc523 said: The only question/concern is - do those cheaper products truly act as "gateway" cars (models that get someone in the brand, and they move upwards in the lineup as they get older/have more to spend), or not? By skipping out on cheaper offerings, do companies miss out on that stair stepping? I know they'll still have lower-priced crossovers to help this, but only time will tell. My theory is people who buy cheap Explorers are bargain hunters who aren't brand loyal to start with and will go with the cheapest option next time. Brand loyalty just isn't what it used to be - there are too many brands and too many options and not as much differentiation as there used to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 32 minutes ago, akirby said: My theory is people who buy cheap Explorers are bargain hunters who aren't brand loyal to start with and will go with the cheapest option next time. Brand loyalty just isn't what it used to be - there are too many brands and too many options and not as much differentiation as there used to be. I'm talking about smaller cars/products, not Explorers specifically. But I get your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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