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silvrsvt

Tesla Shares Gain After Multi-Million Dollar Emissions Deal with Fiat Chrysler

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What a scam from a government and corporate perspective. 

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Up to $750 Million in income to Tesla and a big get out of Jail pass on Fiat's dirty vehicles.

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Wondering if these are the first steps toward an eventual takeover of Tesla by FCA...

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4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Up to $750 Million in income to Tesla and a big get out of Jail pass on Fiat's dirty vehicles.

So, Tesla customers can no longer say they are 'helping' the environment!

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It’s all about the money. I’m not a conspiracy theorists but I understand where the ideas come from. Situations like these, money changes hands and all is forgiven. 

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18 hours ago, tbone said:

What a scam from a government and corporate perspective. 

 

38 minutes ago, fordtech1 said:

It’s all about the money. I’m not a conspiracy theorists but I understand where the ideas come from. Situations like these, money changes hands and all is forgiven. 

Definitely. It's why lobbyists, corporate lawyers, and government officials in certain positions get so rich. There's always a deal to be made between businesses and governments, however shady.

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2 hours ago, fordtech1 said:

It’s all about the money. I’m not a conspiracy theorists but I understand where the ideas come from. Situations like these, money changes hands and all is forgiven. 

It is not a conspiracy theory.  It is part of cap and trade. It is believed by some to be a method to smoothly transition to something - in this case more environmentally friendly cars.  No different then buying ZEV credits in the US.  

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2 hours ago, Trailhiker said:

So, Tesla customers can no longer say they are 'helping' the environment!

Yes they can.  Every Tesla sold means one less ICE vehicle.  It gives Tesla and like manufacturers money for R&D to build even more vehicles. It also influences ICE manufacturers to become cleaner so they do not have to pay the "tax".

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1 hour ago, msm859 said:

It also influences ICE manufacturers to become cleaner so they do not have to pay the "tax".

Doesn't appear to be working for FCA.

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2 hours ago, msm859 said:

It is not a conspiracy theory.  It is part of cap and trade. It is believed by some to be a method to smoothly transition to something - in this case more environmentally friendly cars.  No different then buying ZEV credits in the US.  

I understand it’s that same in the us. That’s why I said that. However, I don’t see any difference than if I got a Grade F and my friend got an A. If I bought that A off of him. Ironically we are hearing this college admission scandal of celebrities. This seems the same. Plus Tesla has been funding its operations from these credits for a while.

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1 hour ago, fordtech1 said:

I understand it’s that same in the us. That’s why I said that. However, I don’t see any difference than if I got a Grade F and my friend got an A. If I bought that A off of him. Ironically we are hearing this college admission scandal of celebrities. This seems the same. Plus Tesla has been funding its operations from these credits for a while.

I agree.  It would be different if FCA bought Tesla.  Selling credits to other mfrs doesn’t help the environment at all - in fact it allows FCA to keep producing less compliant vehicles.  It won’t change the number of Teslas sold.

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58 minutes ago, akirby said:

I agree.  It would be different if FCA bought Tesla.  Selling credits to other mfrs doesn’t help the environment at all - in fact it allows FCA to keep producing less compliant vehicles.  It won’t change the number of Teslas sold.

Well, one could argue the funds will help keep it in business.

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4 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Well, one could argue the funds will help keep it in business.

Only temporarily.  

 

To borrow the previous analogy - it's like having a class full of A students and a class full of F students and the goal is to have each class have a passing average.  Instead of trying to improve the F class and get them to Cs let's just swap half of each class so that each class averages a C.  Now explain how that helps anybody?

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4 hours ago, akirby said:

Only temporarily.  

 

To borrow the previous analogy - it's like having a class full of A students and a class full of F students and the goal is to have each class have a passing average.  Instead of trying to improve the F class and get them to Cs let's just swap half of each class so that each class averages a C.  Now explain how that helps anybody?

I would say the A/F students is a non sequitur and a poor analogy that has nothing to do with Cap & Trade which is a "Temporary" solution to fix a problem and has worked in the past.

https://cleantechnica.com/2010/06/08/five-good-things-cap-and-trade-has-done-for-you/

Tesla being allowed to sell credits has helped them stay in business and even if "only temporarily"  They have been instrumental in pushing the technology and bringing other manufacturers along - perhaps kicking and screaming.  However, I don't believe anyone can seriously dispute that without Tesla we would not be here today with all the BEV and PHEV offerings already out and coming in the near future.  So if Cap & Trade facilitated that, then I am all for it.

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3 hours ago, msm859 said:

I would say the A/F students is a non sequitur and a poor analogy that has nothing to do with Cap & Trade which is a "Temporary" solution to fix a problem and has worked in the past.

https://cleantechnica.com/2010/06/08/five-good-things-cap-and-trade-has-done-for-you/

Tesla being allowed to sell credits has helped them stay in business and even if "only temporarily"  They have been instrumental in pushing the technology and bringing other manufacturers along - perhaps kicking and screaming.  However, I don't believe anyone can seriously dispute that without Tesla we would not be here today with all the BEV and PHEV offerings already out and coming in the near future.  So if Cap & Trade facilitated that, then I am all for it.

Excellent points msm859 sir. Cap & trade definitely has its benefits. Also, Tesla's leadership in designing appealing BEVs (not just 'compliance cars') is a big win not only for them and their customers, but for the whole automotive industry. Tesla's mission to “to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible" is noteworthy.

I don't like the corruption among some public officials and businessmen involved in cap & trade deals though.

Edited by rperez817

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On 4/10/2019 at 12:43 AM, rperez817 said:

Excellent points msm859 sir. Cap & trade definitely has its benefits. Also, Tesla's leadership in designing appealing BEVs (not just 'compliance cars') is a big win not only for them and their customers, but for the whole automotive industry. Tesla's mission to “to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible" is noteworthy.

But they are also operating in a more or less vacuum now that will become very crowded in the next 12-24 months with luxury and non-luxury players entering the market with BEVs. 

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14 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

But they are also operating in a more or less vacuum now that will become very crowded in the next 12-24 months with luxury and non-luxury players entering the market with BEVs. 

They took advantage of a new market as a company that could survive on investment capital and trading credits instead of turning a profit, whereas the traditional mfrs don't have that luxury.  Now that the traditional mfrs can make BEVs profitably (or at least break even) it's going to be a whole different ballgame.  If I had Tesla stock I'd be dumping it.

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No doubt competition will be heating up.  Tesla better be prepared for all kind of stories of Model S owners trading in their vehicles for a new Porsche Mission E.

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22 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

No doubt competition will be heating up.  Tesla better be prepared for all kind of stories of Model S owners trading in their vehicles for a new Porsche Mission E.

And the fact that there is no second generation Mosel S when the competition like the Porsche comes out, will add the compound interest to this equation.

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21 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

No doubt competition will be heating up.  Tesla better be prepared for all kind of stories of Model S owners trading in their vehicles for a new Porsche Mission E.

That is the elephant is Tesla's room-do they actually have a path forward for refreshing products, instead of just adding new models?

The Model S came out in 2012 and they just updated the grill externally looks wise

the Fusion came out around the same time and has had two refreshes-but the last one was about as much as what they changed on the Model S update. 

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15 minutes ago, atomcat68 said:

And the fact that there is no second generation Mosel S when the competition like the Porsche comes out, will add the compound interest to this equation.

That's been my point all along - they can't even make money on the new models and they're not even doing the R&D to update the older models yet.

Cool cars but an unstainable business model.

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More interesting news from Tesla. While this story is mainly about the extreme difficulty off actually buying a (money-losing -- for Tesla) "standard" Model 3 and additional content being "removed" (that is, software locked), one company comment on changes to the leasing policy caught my eye:

"Please note, customers who choose leasing over owning will not have the option to purchase their car at the end of the lease, because with full autonomy coming in the future via an over-the-air software update, we plan to use those vehicles in the Tesla ride-hailing network."

 

Huh, does Tesla really think driverless hailing services will be working the roads of American cities in two or three years?

https://jalopnik.com/you-cant-buy-teslas-35-000-model-3-online-anymore-1833995005

Edited by Gurgeh

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43 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

That is the elephant is Tesla's room-do they actually have a path forward for refreshing products, instead of just adding new models?

The Model S came out in 2012 and they just updated the grill externally looks wise

the Fusion came out around the same time and has had two refreshes-but the last one was about as much as what they changed on the Model S update. 

Well.  Let's be honest, the Fusion's 2017 update was also nothing to write home about and to the average buyer it was barely changed.

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(...and by the way, what I really think Tesla has in mind for the software-locked "standard" 3's coming off lease is to unlock the "Plus" features and resell them as higher-priced cars.)

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