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Ford 2019 Q1 & March Sales Numbers

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6 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Mondeo is getting a refresh that includes the new 8-speed auto, I wonder if importing it could  be a future option....

I said that when they first announced the car culling - "fill" Euro plant production with Mondeo and Fusion and ship Fusion here.

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14 hours ago, ice-capades said:

Fiesta Balance Out is 08/01/2019. And Ford's telling dealers that the Fusion will be available through the 2020MY.

Balance out is when the car should be out of inventory?

Late 2020 could be considered a 2021MY with the Pickup and TC going into the Fusion plant. 

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8 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Balance out is when the car should be out of inventory?

Late 2020 could be considered a 2021MY with the Pickup and TC going into the Fusion plant. 

I think balance out is when they schedule the final builds.

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5 hours ago, rmc523 said:

I said that when they first announced the car culling - "fill" Euro plant production with Mondeo and Fusion and ship Fusion here.

If Ford can't make money building Fusion in Mexico, it sure as hell ain't going to make money shipping them from Spain.

In order to make money on it, Ford will have to charge more money. Hard to charge more money on a car that hasn't changed significantly since 2012...

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3 hours ago, akirby said:

I think balance out is when they schedule the final builds.

This

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5 hours ago, bzcat said:

If Ford can't make money building Fusion in Mexico, it sure as hell ain't going to make money shipping them from Spain.

In order to make money on it, Ford will have to charge more money. Hard to charge more money on a car that hasn't changed significantly since 2012...

I thought he was talking about a new Mondeo/Fusion not the current one.  Agree it doesn’t make sense for the current one.

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I’m going to say this and I’ll just say it once... The Fusion should not be killed. I can understand some of the other decisions with killing certain sedans, but the Fusion really is Ford’s “Swiss Army Knife” sedan. With a proper update it could easily maintain good sales numbers and keep Ford as a player in that market. It’s a car that can be sold up and sold down. I remember being told around here nobody wants midsize pickups and T6 will never come to the US. Well look what happened. Fuel prices will go up again and at some point another recession will come. When that happens an affordable roomy sedan like the Fusion with excellent fuel economy will be in demand again... where will Ford be? Years behind the curve like they are with the Ranger.

I won’t comment again about this because I know there’s a group around here that gets upset when it’s mentioned, but once again killing the Fusion is a mistake. It’s an excellent vehicle and a respected nameplate. It’s needs some updating, but that’s it. I know it’s all about very high ATPs and very expensive luxury vehicles selling in huge numbers, but when the economy goes to hell again all those $65,000 King Ranches and $90,000 Navigators will be piling up on the lots. We saw it before and it’ll happen again. End of my rant.

Edited by 2005Explorer

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Or maybe instead of Fusions they’ll be buying Ecosports , Pumas, Mavericks and Escapes.  They’ll get the same or better mpg and the first two will be cheaper than a Fusion sedan.

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69% of North American sales are lite truck or "lite truck asdociated"....i agree fusion and FOCUS should have found a home somewhere but they are both DOA and frankly i applaud ford for at least trying to shift product focus to market demand...if you want sedan or hatch mazda gladly accept your business....

 

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56 minutes ago, 2005Explorer said:

I’m going to say this and I’ll just say it once... The Fusion should not be killed. I can understand some of the other decisions with killing certain sedans, but the Fusion really is Ford’s “Swiss Army Knife” sedan. With a proper update it could easily maintain good sales numbers and keep Ford as a player in that market. It’s a car that can be sold up and sold down. I remember being told around here nobody wants midsize pickups and T6 will never come to the US. Well look what happened. Fuel prices will go up again and at some point another recession will come. When that happens an affordable roomy sedan like the Fusion with excellent fuel economy will be in demand again... where will Ford be? Years behind the curve like they are with the Ranger.

I won’t comment again about this because I know there’s a group around here that gets upset when it’s mentioned, but once again killing the Fusion is a mistake. It’s an excellent vehicle and a respected nameplate. It’s needs some updating, but that’s it. I know it’s all about very high ATPs and very expensive luxury vehicles selling in huge numbers, but when the economy goes to hell again all those $65,000 King Ranches and $90,000 Navigators will be piling up on the lots. We saw it before and it’ll happen again. End of my rant.

While I don't disagree with the thought that Ford needs a car here, and it sucks to see them kill a great care like the Fusion, the problem is that you can't keep it around just to have something to sell in a recession.  If it isn't making you money now, it's definitely not going to make you money in a recession.  Like akirby mentioned, folks won't go back to cars, they will go to smaller CUV's.  The fuel economy difference isn't as great as it was before (you have to think percentage changes, not actual MPG numbers), so that's really a non-starter.

While I hate to see Ford lose the best sedan they've ever sold here, I think it's the right choice.

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5 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

While I don't disagree with the thought that Ford needs a car here, and it sucks to see them kill a great care like the Fusion, the problem is that you can't keep it around just to have something to sell in a recession.  If it isn't making you money now, it's definitely not going to make you money in a recession.  Like akirby mentioned, folks won't go back to cars, they will go to smaller CUV's.  The fuel economy difference isn't as great as it was before (you have to think percentage changes, not actual MPG numbers), so that's really a non-starter.

While I hate to see Ford lose the best sedan they've ever sold here, I think it's the right choice.

It would take me some time to go way back in time around here, but I can find the same arguments by the same people that folks will never purchase midsized pickups again “It’s a dead market they proclaimed” and Ford needs to be out of that market. What happened? Toyota and GM stuck it out introducing better products and both (especially Toyota) are reaping the rewards today as the market leaders. Ford will likely never again be a leader in that market like they were 20 years ago. Now as I see a new Ranger parked next to an F-150 on a dealers lot I laugh so hard when Ford gave the excuse “The T6 Ranger is almost as big as an F-150” so it’s not needed. The difference in size is huge.

Anyhow this is just how I see it. You leave a market completely if that market ever becomes attractive again don’t show up years later thinking your going to be a big player in it again. People move on. Ford will sell some Rangers, but a lot of their customers for these type of trucks have moved on and they will never be a leader like Toyota in the market again.

You don’t have to agree with anything I said, but I’ve seen this show before... Ford put all their focus into SUVs in the late 90s and all but dumped sedans... 445,157 Explorers sold in 2000 Within 10 years... 60,687 Explorers sold in 2010. Anyhow I just feel dumping a very solid vehicle and respected nameplate like Fusion is a mistake. I know it’s just my opinion, but it’s an opinion I’ll continue to hold. Would Toyota dump the Camry or Honda the Civic? Never in a million years. That’s why they are so much more successful then Ford in these markets. They continue to build on their success. They don’t keep starting over from square one every generation.

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41 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

While I hate to see Ford lose the best sedan they've ever sold here, I think it's the right choice.

I agree. The hybrid, Energi, and V6 Sport Ford Fusion versions were probably the best passenger cars without Mustang, ST, or RS in their names that Ford offered in the U.S. But there's no way that the expense needed to redesign these cars and make them more competitive with sedans from other automakers would pay off for Ford.

With Ford offering hybrid, PHEV, and turbo V6 powertrains in upcoming SUVs and trucks, these Fusions probably won't be missed much by U.S. customers.

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1 hour ago, akirby said:

Or maybe instead of Fusions they’ll be buying Ecosports , Pumas, Mavericks and Escapes.  They’ll get the same or better mpg and the first two will be cheaper than a Fusion sedan.

Well I hope their efforts in those other vehicle lines are better then the EcoSport sitting on dealers lots right now because that thing is the definition of mediocrity. Puma? Maverick? I hope those are “code names” only and it’ll take years to establish new nameplates so I hope they come attached to world class products. The new Escape looks decent, but it’s going up against competitors in it’s segment that are much more popular and respected like the CR-V and RAV4 so it’ll have a hard time breaking out from the pack.

We’ll see how it all shakes out. Only time will tell.

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3 hours ago, akirby said:

I thought he was talking about a new Mondeo/Fusion not the current one.  Agree it doesn’t make sense for the current one.

From what i gather, the current Mondeo will live on until about 2025, the new model was cancelled outside of China.

The refresh looks to be extendion of hybrid to the station wagon as well as the5-door hatch back,  new 8-speed auto on  190 PS 2.0 Ecoblue diesel but can't find out anything further regarding other gasoline versions..or if three are any others.

Edited by jpd80

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12 hours ago, akirby said:

I think balance out is when they schedule the final builds.

Balance Out is the last scheduled production date. 

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4 hours ago, 2005Explorer said:

Well I hope their efforts in those other vehicle lines are better then the EcoSport sitting on dealers lots right now because that thing is the definition of mediocrity. Puma? Maverick? I hope those are “code names” only and it’ll take years to establish new nameplates so I hope they come attached to world class products. The new Escape looks decent, but it’s going up against competitors in it’s segment that are much more popular and respected like the CR-V and RAV4 so it’ll have a hard time breaking out from the pack.

We’ll see how it all shakes out. Only time will tell.

I don't understand the popularity of the RAV4.  I have had 2018 RAV4 for the last three weeks since my car was tboned.  It is loud, slow off the line and handles like a piece shit compared to our older 2015 escape.  I think the two vehicle concept that ford is trying in this segment will pay of with the more urban sleek  escape and the more outdoorsy Maverick.  I believe the Maverick will  do well in New England  where are all wheel drive Suburus have a devoted following.  If they make Maverick all wheel drive standard It would cement it's more adventure minded persona,.

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6 hours ago, 2005Explorer said:

It would take me some time to go way back in time around here, but I can find the same arguments by the same people that folks will never purchase midsized pickups again “It’s a dead market they proclaimed” and Ford needs to be out of that market. What happened? Toyota and GM stuck it out introducing better products and both (especially Toyota) are reaping the rewards today as the market leaders. Ford will likely never again be a leader in that market like they were 20 years ago. Now as I see a new Ranger parked next to an F-150 on a dealers lot I laugh so hard when Ford gave the excuse “The T6 Ranger is almost as big as an F-150” so it’s not needed. The difference in size is huge.

Anyhow this is just how I see it. You leave a market completely if that market ever becomes attractive again don’t show up years later thinking your going to be a big player in it again. People move on. Ford will sell some Rangers, but a lot of their customers for these type of trucks have moved on and they will never be a leader like Toyota in the market again.

You don’t have to agree with anything I said, but I’ve seen this show before... Ford put all their focus into SUVs in the late 90s and all but dumped sedans... 445,157 Explorers sold in 2000 Within 10 years... 60,687 Explorers sold in 2010. Anyhow I just feel dumping a very solid vehicle and respected nameplate like Fusion is a mistake. I know it’s just my opinion, but it’s an opinion I’ll continue to hold. Would Toyota dump the Camry or Honda the Civic? Never in a million years. That’s why they are so much more successful then Ford in these markets. They continue to build on their success. They don’t keep starting over from square one every generation.

You know, things change, markets change, people's desires change, and opinions change.  I agree leaving the market means you have to start from scratch next time, but if your choices are continue spending money in a shrinking market where profits are thin, or invest your money into a market where you have definite strengths and the profits are much better, which do you do?  You forget that Ford doesn't have unlimited resources to engineer and plants to build vehicles.  You sometimes have to make tough choices to cut something in order to succeed.

So, let's say Ford chose to cancel the Ranger in order to bring the Transit over here due to resources.  Was cancelling the Ranger a bad move at that time?  Sales were down and profits were nill and it was going to cost a fortune to update the T6 to bring it here.  Ford saw the opening in the van market because nobody had anything else, and Ford KNOWS the fleet market.  Fast forward to today.  Ford makes a bunch of those vans, in a shared plant with F150, using shared powertrains and economies of scale.  That was the right move at the time.  It sucked to lose Ranger, but it was a necessary move to make Ford viable.  Sure, Ford is a bit behind in the small truck market, but in the end, they are more than making up for it with van sales.  It will take them a while to get the Ranger back to the top, but with Ford's truck dominance, I feel they will get there.

And Toyota dumping the Camry or Honda the Civic is entirely different.  That is their bread and butter.  That's where they put their resources because that's what they know.  Do they know trucks?  The Tundra and Ridgeline show they don't, at least not here in the US.  In the end though, if sales continue their downward spiral for cars, look for them to be cancelled.  I don't think it will go that far, though, because there is a certain number of sedan buyers, and they will all migrate to the few that remain, and those will be the stalwarts, those whose bread and butter is sedans.

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6 hours ago, 2005Explorer said:

It would take me some time to go way back in time around here, but I can find the same arguments by the same people that folks will never purchase midsized pickups again “It’s a dead market they proclaimed” and Ford needs to be out of that market. What happened? Toyota and GM stuck it out introducing better products and both (especially Toyota) are reaping the rewards today as the market leaders. Ford will likely never again be a leader in that market like they were 20 years ago. Now as I see a new Ranger parked next to an F-150 on a dealers lot I laugh so hard when Ford gave the excuse “The T6 Ranger is almost as big as an F-150” so it’s not needed. The difference in size is huge.

Anyhow this is just how I see it. You leave a market completely if that market ever becomes attractive again don’t show up years later thinking your going to be a big player in it again. People move on. Ford will sell some Rangers, but a lot of their customers for these type of trucks have moved on and they will never be a leader like Toyota in the market again.

You don’t have to agree with anything I said, but I’ve seen this show before... Ford put all their focus into SUVs in the late 90s and all but dumped sedans... 445,157 Explorers sold in 2000 Within 10 years... 60,687 Explorers sold in 2010. Anyhow I just feel dumping a very solid vehicle and respected nameplate like Fusion is a mistake. I know it’s just my opinion, but it’s an opinion I’ll continue to hold. Would Toyota dump the Camry or Honda the Civic? Never in a million years. That’s why they are so much more successful then Ford in these markets. They continue to build on their success. They don’t keep starting over from square one every generation.

You're not entirely wrong but you're ignoring the biggest factors in these decisions - cost and opportunities.   For Ranger there was a big cost associated with bringing it into compliance for emissions, fuel economy and crash testing and at the time the market was shrinking.   So on top of saving all that investment they also were able to close a plant saving even more.    And those resources were diverted to other projects.

It's not like they're killing vehicles and pocketing the cash.  They're just shifting the investment to other things that they think will either be more important or have a much better ROI in the future.

And as long as they're still making Focus and Mondeo for ROW it's readily available should they need to bring it back to NA.  And the new platforms can easily support cars in the same factories should the market move back that way.   If they were killing the unibody car platforms or if they were killing the Focus and Mondeo completely I would be more inclined to agree with you.

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6 hours ago, 2005Explorer said:

Well I hope their efforts in those other vehicle lines are better then the EcoSport sitting on dealers lots right now because that thing is the definition of mediocrity.

Everyone agrees it's a mediocre product.  The new version (whatever it's called) will be better and will be built on the new C platform along with Maverick.

But even as a mediocre product they're selling $4K/month - close to the Fiesta numbers.  And Ecosport ATPs are probably a lot higher than Fiesta.

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1 hour ago, pictor said:

I don't understand the popularity of the RAV4. 

Same as Corolla and Camry.  They're Toyotas and owners love their Toyotas.  Most probably don't even look at other options (just like a lot of Ford faithful).  Aggressive pricing also helps.

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19 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

You forget that Ford doesn't have unlimited resources to engineer and plants to build vehicles.  You sometimes have to make tough choices to cut something in order to succeed.

I think this is the biggest misconception that people have when criticizing marketing and product decisions.   In most any business you have a fixed amount of capital, time and resources and you can almost never do everything you want to do in a given year.  You prioritize the projects and draw a line when the resources run out.   I've either lost funding or never gotten funding for lots of good projects because the business needs to divert all available funding to more important things.  That's just how it works in the real world.

You always have to pick and choose your opportunities and in doing so sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions.

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1 hour ago, pictor said:

I don't understand the popularity of the RAV4.  I have had 2018 RAV4 for the last three weeks since my car was tboned.  It is loud, slow off the line and handles like a piece shit compared to our older 2015 escape.  I think the two vehicle concept that ford is trying in this segment will pay of with the more urban sleek  escape and the more outdoorsy Maverick.  I believe the Maverick will  do well in New England  where are all wheel drive Suburus have a devoted following.  If they make Maverick all wheel drive standard It would cement it's more adventure minded persona,.

I don't get the appeal of Suburu-they are styled like dishwater and the only thing that remotely interesting to me is the WRX, which has become waterdown more and more since it became popular 10 years ago or so. They look like station wagons vs a CUV. 

They kinda remind me of maybe a Japanese Volvo, but at least Volvo has a little bit of luxury pretension to it-at least back 20-30 years ago, its since moved up market. 

The Escape has been in the top 5 of sales since its introduction and sometimes the best selling product in its class-so I wouldn't call beating RAV4 or CRV in sales an insurmountable task. But in the grand scheme of things is it really necessary?

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I hope Ford keeps Focus and Mondeo NA preserved, at least for the immediate future.  They were ready to produce the Focus in China, and in a way it was politics that killed it.  Politics can change.  If the market shifts back to cars (and I’m doubtful it will) they could spool up overseas as a stop gap (or permanently if China makes sense). 

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4 hours ago, ice-capades said:

Balance Out is the last scheduled production date. 

That makes more sense-its been reported the car goes out of production in May-but I'm assuming that was misinterpreted as last time you can order one from the dealer. 

The timing makes more sense too-there is zero reason why the plant would be closed for 6 months plus to retool-if anything the Mach E will go into production in December or so-3 months after retooling the plant for it and the Maverick would follow in the Spring of 2020. 

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9 hours ago, akirby said:

Or maybe instead of Fusions they’ll be buying Ecosports , Pumas, Mavericks and Escapes.  They’ll get the same or better mpg and the first two will be cheaper than a Fusion sedan.

I get that some people prefer sedans to crossovers/SUVs. But take a hard look at the new Escape. It is a sedan with a tall trunk. It is styled like a sedan, rides low like a sedan, will drive like a sedan. It is in essence a sedan with a bit more utility, with the rear window a little further back. OTOH, no way will sedan people want the Maverick, which will be a more traditional off-road-capable rugged crossover. I think it is smart of Ford to produce them both, and I hope they both do very well.

I do think that at some point we'll see a true sedan or two back in Ford's North American line-up, but jeez, could the "we're getting out of the car business" reveal have been handled any worse?

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