Explorer PHEV?

[msm859]

On 3/29/2019 at 11:02 AM, fordmantpw said:

Well, they really don't, I just made the decision to bite the bullet and do it.  All I really get is a net metering contract (where I buy power at $0.08/kWh and sell excess at $0.025, net per month), and the federal tax credit.  My electric company is a co-op, so no rebates from them.

Um that's crazy.  Here in California when I produce more then I use during peak time they buy back at peak rates.  Then at night I still get to buy at off peak rates when I am using and not producing. 

[fordmantpw]

11 hours ago, msm859 said:

Um that's crazy.  Here in California when I produce more then I use during peak time they buy back at peak rates.  Then at night I still get to buy at off peak rates when I am using and not producing. 

I agree it's crazy, but I don't have a choice.

EDIT: Of course, our rates don't have peak/off-peak, and our normal rate is probably less than your off-peak.

Edited April 1, 2019 by fordmantpw

[msm859]

5 hours ago, fordmantpw said:

I agree it's crazy, but I don't have a choice.

EDIT: Of course, our rates don't have peak/off-peak, and our normal rate is probably less than your off-peak.

Yeh, you may be right about rates.  Off peak is @12 cents/kWh.  But if I can sell back to them at over 30 cents/+  kWh then I am getting 3 kWh off peak for every on peak I give them.  California electricity is very green. There is only 1 very small coal plant left in the state and within 5 -7 years that should be gone along with any imported electricity generated by coal.

[fordmantpw]

3 hours ago, msm859 said:

Yeh, you may be right about rates.  Off peak is @12 cents/kWh.  But if I can sell back to them at over 30 cents/+  kWh then I am getting 3 kWh off peak for every on peak I give them.  California electricity is very green. There is only 1 very small coal plant left in the state and within 5 -7 years that should be gone along with any imported electricity generated by coal.

Wow, that could be a money-making proposition then!  30 cents / kWh is crazy!  We are at 8.5 cents / kWh 24/7/365.

Coal is on it's way out here in MO as well.  I live near (and work at) the states only nuclear plant.  Nuclear is much safer and better for the environment than all the others but it is expensive to overcome challenges and keep plants up and running and keep up with security.  But, our company is expanding our 'green' initiatives with more solar and wind as coal gets phased out.

Funny thing, my company's line runs literally right through our back yard, 200 yards from our house.  However, we had to get power from the co-op and trench a line 1/4 mile to our house.  The regulated power industry is crazy, but you can't scoff at the rates for our coop!

[rmc523]

The PHEV will be the only powertrain option for Europe.

[blwnsmoke]

2020 PHEV revealed for Europe with 450hp, only 25 mile range at 13.1kw battery. 

 

https://www.motor1.com/news/316446/2020-ford-explorer-phev-unveiled/

[ausrutherford]

Ford UK has to be mad they aren't getting the Explorer. 

[mackinaw]

50 minutes ago, ausrutherford said:

Ford UK has to be mad they aren't getting the Explorer. 

If there is a Ford UK.  Interesting article in today's Automotive News.  If there's a Brexit no-deal, ""We love being in Britain, but it has to be competitive and if it's not competitive then we will have to take whatever actions we will need to take to protect the business," 

[msm859]

5 hours ago, blwnsmoke said:

2020 PHEV revealed for Europe with 450hp, only 25 mile range at 13.1kw battery. 

 

https://www.motor1.com/news/316446/2020-ford-explorer-phev-unveiled/

If those are the specs for the Aviator GT then that is pretty sad.  

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, msm859 said:

If those are the specs for the Aviator GT then that is pretty sad.  

And if you think that's sad you’re missing the point. It's not about MPG. Besides, they already announced it would be over 600 horsepower. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by fuzzymoomoo

[msm859]

3 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

And if you think that's sad you’re missing the point. It's not about MPG. Besides, they already announced it would be over 600 horsepower. 

Well it should be about MPG AND Performance.  What is wrong with having it all.  Besides the just announced Ford Escape PHEV has a LARGER 14.4 kw battery.  A 13.1 kw will not even get you the full $7500 federal tax credit.  The cost of using a larger battery would probably be completely offset by the increased tax credit.  To be in the "game" in China you need an electric range of 50 km - 30+ miles.  The Chrysler Pacifica PHEV minivan has a bigger battery, better range and more powerful electric motor(s).  So yes, if these are the specs for the Lincoln Aviator it is pretty sad - beat by a minivan.

And the "600" figure is torque not horsepower.

[rmc523]

It's amazing when people complain about 450/620.......

[jcartwright99]

The only issue I see with the 25 mile electric only is China. Don't they have a 30 mile electric only floor for some sort of regulation? This may be the final spec or the Europe only spec. Until they formally announce the US/Chinese specs, I won't take it as gospel just yet.

[silvrsvt]

36 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

The only issue I see with the 25 mile electric only is China. Don't they have a 30 mile electric only floor for some sort of regulation? This may be the final spec or the Europe only spec. Until they formally announce the US/Chinese specs, I won't take it as gospel just yet.

Exactly...

[msm859]

3 hours ago, rmc523 said:

It's amazing when people complain about 450/620.......

Well it's all relative.  You can get a Jeep Grand Cherokee with 707 hp and 645 torque.  A Tesla Model X with 762 hp and 791 torque - or even the base 90D with 524 hp 686 torque.  The Porsche Cayenne E-hybrid which is much smaller has 455 hp 516 torque with a 14.1kWh battery with the electric motor having 134 hp and 295 torque. Or as mentioned before a Chrysler minivan has better "electric" specs.  So does Ford want to simply get by with what they think is "enough" or do they want to lead?  Hopefully these are just Euro specs, but given the hp/torque claim they seem similar to what we know so far about the Aviator.

[silvrsvt]

3 hours ago, msm859 said:

Well it's all relative.  You can get a Jeep Grand Cherokee with 707 hp and 645 torque.  A Tesla Model X with 762 hp and 791 torque - or even the base 90D with 524 hp 686 torque.  The Porsche Cayenne E-hybrid which is much smaller has 455 hp 516 torque with a 14.1kWh battery with the electric motor having 134 hp and 295 torque. Or as mentioned before a Chrysler minivan has better "electric" specs.  So does Ford want to simply get by with what they think is "enough" or do they want to lead?  Hopefully these are just Euro specs, but given the hp/torque claim they seem similar to what we know so far about the Aviator.

Why are you getting your panties in a bunch over numbers over completely dissimilar vehicles and approaches to electrification of them?  

The new PHEV setup on upcoming Aviator has everything integrated into the transmission with an external battery pack-which is much more effective in a packaging and pricing situation. 

[msm859]

3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

Why are you getting your panties in a bunch over numbers over completely dissimilar vehicles and approaches to electrification of them?  

The new PHEV setup on upcoming Aviator has everything integrated into the transmission with an external battery pack-which is much more effective in a packaging and pricing situation. 

My comments were directed at the question as to why complain about "450/620".  I have no problem with the integration into the transmission or how it may compare to other car per se (although the Chrysler minivan seems to have better PHEV specs).  I do have a concern (if these are the US specs) with the small battery - smaller then what they are putting in the new Escape, too small to get the full Federal tax credit, too small to actually be able to reasonably drive in electric mode, too small to meet the minimum standard of 50 km range. And finally  I care because I actually want to buy an Aviator GT.  The rest of the car is great, not sure why they wanted to settle for ok on the PHEV version.

[fuzzymoomoo]

54 minutes ago, msm859 said:

My comments were directed at the question as to why complain about "450/620".  I have no problem with the integration into the transmission or how it may compare to other car per se (although the Chrysler minivan seems to have better PHEV specs).  I do have a concern (if these are the US specs) with the small battery - smaller then what they are putting in the new Escape, too small to get the full Federal tax credit, too small to actually be able to reasonably drive in electric mode, too small to meet the minimum standard of 50 km range. And finally  I care because I actually want to buy an Aviator GT.  The rest of the car is great, not sure why they wanted to settle for ok on the PHEV version.

The electric motor/battery is only there to provide a boost. That's the point. 

[msm859]

17 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

The electric motor/battery is only there to provide a boost. That's the point. 

No.  The point of a PHEV is to be able to drive for a distance electric only AND to substantially improve your mpg.  You can certainly have a different focus - lean more towards the mpg or the performance side and Ford is doing that contrast with the Explorer vs Aviator.  

[fuzzymoomoo]

25 minutes ago, msm859 said:

No.  The point of a PHEV is to be able to drive for a distance electric only AND to substantially improve your mpg.  You can certainly have a different focus - lean more towards the mpg or the performance side and Ford is doing that contrast with the Explorer vs Aviator.  

 Not in the Aviator. 

 

Jesus it's like we're talking to a freaking wall...

[akirby]

Just now, fuzzymoomoo said:

 Not in the Aviator. 

 

Actually he’s right about that.  You can drive in electric only mode for up to 25-30 miles and that’s one of the main benefits of a PHEV over a regular hybrid.  That’s why I might consider one.

But he thinks the electric motor alone is insufficient for balls to the wall performance in EV mode and should provide Tesla like performance.  Which completely ignores the 400 hp ICE if you really want to go fast.

[msm859]

27 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

Actually he’s right about that.  You can drive in electric only mode for up to 25-30 miles and that’s one of the main benefits of a PHEV over a regular hybrid.  That’s why I might consider one.

But he thinks the electric motor alone is insufficient for balls to the wall performance in EV mode and should provide Tesla like performance.  Which completely ignores the 400 hp ICE if you really want to go fast.

Well your half right.  But as I have said I want it "all". I want the drive in electric only mode for 50km - 30+ miles. So that 90% of the time when my wife is only driving around town it will be in electric mode.  But, I ALSO want the performance and long range travel without worrying about charging.  I don't want balls to the wall performance in EV mode - I just don't want it to be slower then a 1960 VW van so that it can actually be driven in electric mode only in the real world - not a test lab.

[akirby]

I bet it will drive perfectly fine in EV mode and it won’t be super slow.

[msm859]

18 minutes ago, akirby said:

I bet it will drive perfectly fine in EV mode and it won’t be super slow.

Well I hope you are correct.  The problem is we presently have a 2017 Explorer Platinum with the ecoboost and good power and I drive a 2014 Corvette Stingray.  I don't mine paying $14k extra for the GT if it can actually have a real EV mode.  We put twice the miles on our Explorer as my Corvette so if 90% of the time the Explorer is EV only that would cut my annual fuel consumption in half.

[jcartwright99]

Anyone know how going into electric mode works? Push a button or is it automatically on until you have no juice. I’ve only driven regular hybrids so not sure how that will work.