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2020 Kuga/Escape to be shown off April 2nd 10:15AM EST-Possible Puma unveiling also


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30 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

You're only looking at one prong of the approach, though.  The Escape becomes more car-like.  Maverick will fill in the "macho" more SUV like void Escape vacates.  Ditto for the coming Edge and Bronco.

The Mach E will be the X4/X6, etc. type model.

The problem is the maverick will be a niche vehicle. I think it’s sales would be roughly the same regardless of what the escape looks like. Just because you don’t like the car-like escape doesn’t mean you are going to go to the opposite extreme and get an offroad-ish 4x4 suv. You’d probably want to get an suv somewhere in the middle between escape and maverick.

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18 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Eh, while NG Edge looks great, I wouldn't call it macho. That's what the Bronco is for. 

That's what I was saying.

Escape and Edge go softer/more car like in style/appearance, while Maverick and Bronco are their "macho" more masculine/boxy counterparts.

________________Compact____Midsize

Soft/car like --> ...Escape..........Edge

Masculine -----> ..Maverick.......Bronco

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2 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

The problem is the maverick will be a niche vehicle. I think it’s sales would be roughly the same regardless of what the escape looks like. Just because you don’t like the car-like escape doesn’t mean you are going to go to the opposite extreme and get an offroad-ish 4x4 suv. You’d probably want to get an suv somewhere in the middle between escape and maverick.

Jeep's success indicates Maverick won't be a niche vehicle.  The only question is whether/how much Maverick impacts Escape numbers and how well both will co-exist.  I think there will be an impact, but I'm with Ford in thinking that they can both do well by offering both for different types of customers.  If you don't like either Escape or Maverick, then people can go buy another brand.  Ford is going much further than other companies by offering vehicles in both spectrums catering to multiple types of buyers.  If buyers don't like one or the other, then I don't think there's much else Ford can do.

Furthermore, Maverick isn't going to be some mega offroad vehicle that's going to beat you up designed for rock crawling only.  It's going to be like the smaller Jeeps, with masculine boxy styling and decent likely mild offroading capabilities.

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Well my main point was that in my opinion a more suv like escape AND the maverick would sell better than the car-like escape AND maverick.

also, I’m not sure how well jeeps smaller SUVs sell, I don’t see many in the road around here, but I wouldn’t call any of those masculine, and that’s where the maverick will have a step up on them however I’m sure it will be priced more than those as well.

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1 minute ago, T-dubz said:

Well my main point was that in my opinion a more suv like escape AND the maverick would sell better than the car-like escape AND maverick.

also, I’m not sure how well jeeps smaller SUVs sell, I don’t see many in the road around here, but I wouldn’t call any of those masculine, and that’s where the maverick will have a step up on them however I’m sure it will be priced more than those as well.

I think you're underestimating the appeal of a softer escape.  Just go look at CRV and RAV4 - that's what Escape is targeting.  

The number of buyers that don't want either an Escape or Maverick seems like it would be extremely small.  What other vehicle would they buy that fits that description?

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I feel the two-pronged approach is perfect.  A soft-roader for those who want the CUV and and off-roader for those who want an SUV.  The Explorer has gone soft-roader (even more-so with the 2020 I feel), which is likely fine for most folks.  Are we going to see a more off-road worthy counterpart to it as we have with the Escape/Maverick?  Or is the Bronco the counterpart to the Explorer instead of the Edge and maybe we will get a more rugged Edge-based SUV?

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New Escape will compete against the Japanese and Equinox more so.  What I would call the vanilla mild offerings on the market.  These are more attractive to those who would be coming off the car market going to a CUV.

Maverick will compete against the more rugged look of the Jeeps.

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43 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Jeep's success indicates Maverick won't be a niche vehicle.  The only question is whether/how much Maverick impacts Escape numbers and how well both will co-exist.  I think there will be an impact, but I'm with Ford in thinking that they can both do well by offering both for different types of customers.  If you don't like either Escape or Maverick, then people can go buy another brand.  Ford is going much further than other companies by offering vehicles in both spectrums catering to multiple types of buyers.  If buyers don't like one or the other, then I don't think there's much else Ford can do.

Furthermore, Maverick isn't going to be some mega offroad vehicle that's going to beat you up designed for rock crawling only.  It's going to be like the smaller Jeeps, with masculine boxy styling and decent likely mild offroading capabilities.

Here's why I don't believe Maverick will be a niche vehicle. Ford wouldn't build it if it was. Outside of the Ford Performance stuff they have made it very clear they aren't catering to niche crowds in the US anymore. 

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1 minute ago, fordmantpw said:

I feel the two-pronged approach is perfect.  A soft-roader for those who want the CUV and and off-roader for those who want an SUV.  The Explorer has gone soft-roader (even more-so with the 2020 I feel), which is likely fine for most folks.  Are we going to see a more off-road worthy counterpart to it as we have with the Escape/Maverick?  Or is the Bronco the counterpart to the Explorer instead of the Edge and maybe we will get a more rugged Edge-based SUV?

Perhaps when the Expedition refresh comes around in a few years it gets a more rugged look?

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1 hour ago, akirby said:

I think you're underestimating the appeal of a softer escape.  Just go look at CRV and RAV4 - that's what Escape is targeting.  

The number of buyers that don't want either an Escape or Maverick seems like it would be extremely small.  What other vehicle would they buy that fits that description?

Ironically, RAV-4 went more boxy/aggressive with the redesign, though.

31 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Here's why I don't believe Maverick will be a niche vehicle. Ford wouldn't build it if it was. Outside of the Ford Performance stuff they have made it very clear they aren't catering to niche crowds in the US anymore. 

I guess it depends how you define niche.  And how big of a niche.

30 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Perhaps when the Expedition refresh comes around in a few years it gets a more rugged look?

That's a tough one.  I think part of the success of the GM triplets has been because they have a softer/more friendly look than the trucks, and that's why Ford intentionally gave Expy a different face/rear.....they could've easily just shared F-150 front ends like they did with the '97-02 model, but I think they know that won't be as successful.  Then again, they did use the F-150's dash....

 

Would a global Everest essentially be a "macho" Explorer?

I think Explorer is one that can get away with reaching to both markets, though.

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1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Perhaps when the Expedition refresh comes around in a few years it gets a more rugged look?

I don't think so. I think that's been part of the Expedition's issue for the last couple generations...it's been too rugged.

25 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Would a global Everest essentially be a "macho" Explorer?

I've been wondering that.  With the Everest being Ranger-based, a case could be made to bring it here.  However, with the Bronco, it may be redundant.  I'm not sure there is room for 3 (Explorer, Everest, Bronco) in that space: CUV/mild SUV/hard-core SUV.  You just never know with the SUV-craze we are in right now.

27 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

I think Explorer is one that can get away with reaching to both markets, though.

It has done well since 2011, so very true.

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1 hour ago, akirby said:

I think you're underestimating the appeal of a softer escape.  Just go look at CRV and RAV4 - that's what Escape is targeting.  

The number of buyers that don't want either an Escape or Maverick seems like it would be extremely small.  What other vehicle would they buy that fits that description?

I think the new escape pushes the softness bar quite a bit further then either of the rav4 or crv, (both of which I don’t even really see as soft in terms of design, at least on the current models). I would say the suv market is so strong because people don’t want that softness.

also, I thought the maverick would be a niche vehicle because I thought it was supposed to be 4x4 or awd standard. Please correct me if I’m wrong on that as I can’t remember where I thought I heard that in the first place.

Edited by T-dubz
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9 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

I don't think so. I think that's been part of the Expedition's issue for the last couple generations...it's been too rugged.

Personally I feel they went just a little too far in the opposite direction this time around. I think there's still a happy medium to be found. 

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28 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

I think the new escape pushes the softness bar quite a bit further then either of the rav4 or crv, (both of which I don’t even really see as soft in terms of design, at least on the current models). I would say the suv market is so strong because people don’t want that softness

You think this is more "rugged" than Escape??  :headscratch:

f429093530f27abd522ed6835c694336.pngModern%20Steel%20Metallic-GX-64,63,63-64

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The RAV4 I will concede a little, but not the CRV.

 

So based on that you think there are a lot of folks who would prefer the styling of the RAV4 over either the Escape or the Maverick?  I doubt it.  Most folks buy RAV4s because they're Toyotas - in spite of the styling.

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10 minutes ago, akirby said:

The RAV4 I will concede a little, but not the CRV.

 

So based on that you think there are a lot of folks who would prefer the styling of the RAV4 over either the Escape or the Maverick?  I doubt it.  Most folks buy RAV4s because they're Toyotas - in spite of the styling.

I have never owned a vehicle that was not a ford. I own a 2017 escape. I get discounts on ford vehicles. Even with the discount, I would buy the CRV over the new escape. I would like to say that I would buy the maverick over the CRV, and I would based on looks alone, but many articles lately have been saying it’s positioned between the ecosport and escape in size. It will need to have more backseat legroom then the current escape for me to buy it, and I’m not sure if it will. I get that I’m probably in the minority, but if other people share my opinion, I could definitely see them buying the crv too ( I thinks it already the best seller), and they might not like a retro inspired soft roader maverick.

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6 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Borg posted this video of the Escape unveiling elsewhere.  It was actually pretty cool.

I like it better seeing it in live pictures/video.

I’ll check this out. It could be that the pics out there just don’t do it justice. What ever happened to assimilator anyways?

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"... the suv market is so strong because people don’t want that softness..."

 

Some do, but there's also huge demand for CUV's, which are family cars now. Nissan Pathfinder went from BOF truck based to shopping center car-UV. Sales went up.

Honda brought back the Passport, another 'soft ute', that is doing well.

GM's big CUV's, Traverse and badge versions, sell well, as alternative to Suburban/Tahoe.

 

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37 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

He had a hissy-fit a few months ago and left.

He only came here to show off his inside information and when he got stuff wrong and got called out on it he did exactly that - pitched a hissy-fit and left just like last time.

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