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Toyota Tundra loses Consumer Reports recommendation

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Surprising that Consumer Reports recommended 2019 Toyota Tundra in the first place! The only things going for it are excellent reliability and that it's built in Texas.

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Ford and RAM came out with a Good rating in the latest crash tests where they hit straight on in the fender (sorry, forget the official term).  Toyota and Chevy did bad in it.

 

Already saw it on the TV news stations this afternoon.

Edited by blwnsmoke

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15 hours ago, blwnsmoke said:

Ford and RAM came out with a Good rating in the latest crash tests where they hit straight on in the fender (sorry, forget the official term).

It's the new "small" overlap test.  IIRC, it's hitting the vehicle with a cross section of less than 30%.  The old overlap test was a 50% of the front surface being hit.

My numbers may be slightly off.  But that's what popping out of my 50 year old brain at the moment.

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Just had a conversation with a retiree down at my office. He told me was looking at a Tundra instead of a Silverado when he starts shopping for his next truck (of course, I tried to get him to consider an F150...he is not a Ford guy) So, I told him that Consumer Reports dropped the Tundra off their "recommended" list due to reduced crash results...his reply??

"I don't give a fuck about that, they have them at 11,000 dollars off!!"

Edited by twintornados

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31 minutes ago, twintornados said:

Just had a conversation with a retiree down at my office. He told me was looking at a Tundra instead of a Silverado when he starts shopping for his next truck (of course, I tried to get him to consider an F150...he is not a Ford guy) So, I told him that Consumer Reports dropped the Tundra off their "recommended" list due to reduced crash results...his reply??

"I don't give a fuck about that, they have them at 11,000 dollars off!!"

...Aaaaannnnnd, there's usually a reason for that.

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At this point crash/safety ratings would not enter into my decision making process at all and I think that's true for the majority of buyers.    The probability of being in a serious crash is small to begin with, and the probability of one vehicle vs. another (in the same class) being the difference between life and death is so miniscule that it's statistically insignificant especially when you consider how unlikely it is that your crash will be exactly like the tests.   And even a minor difference in speed, angle or vehicle weight or size can dramatically change the results.

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2 hours ago, twintornados said:

Just had a conversation with a retiree down at my office. He told me was looking at a Tundra instead of a Silverado when he starts shopping for his next truck (of course, I tried to get him to consider an F150...he is not a Ford guy) So, I told him that Consumer Reports dropped the Tundra off their "recommended" list due to reduced crash results...his reply??

"I don't give a fuck about that, they have them at 11,000 dollars off!!"

Working for an exchange in an office environment, there are very few people that are into cars/trucks. Most are badge snobs in my office. The millennials that live in the city don't have cars and just Uber for the most part. 

I overheard a conversation between 2 guys in our kitchen, that made me laugh. I really had to keep my mouth shut. One guy was talking about some of the work he had to do over the weekend (landscaping). They topic of the guys truck comes up and he said. "I have an 18 Tundra and got a really good deal on it. I would never buy an American truck, they just don't know how to make good reliable trucks." At that point, I almost spit out my coffee. Then they continue, they other guy agrees saying that he stopped buying American cars in the 90's and only buys Lexus's now because they are nicer versions of Toyota.

I didn't want to rain and that guys parade and tell him what a hunk of reliable garbage that he had. It just goes to show most people are just using preconceived notions when buying a car/truck. If he did any research, he would know that the Toyota is basically 15 years old and completely out of date compared to Ram, Chevy, and Ford. The only truck worse would be the Titan, last I checked. ** Side note, both of these guys make serious coin and most likely haven't done anything that would come close to serious labor. After listening to the conversation,  the one with a truck is trying to find things to justify to his wife why he bought a truck. 

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CR told Toyota to go sleep on the couch tonight - I'm sure they'll kiss, make up and be all luvy-duvy again soon.

We know CR was exposed for practices that put Toyota automatically into the 'recommended' category until they prove they don't deserve it.  Others, especially American brands, like Ford, have to prove they deserve it to make it into the recommended category before getting there. 

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3 hours ago, twintornados said:

Just had a conversation with a retiree down at my office. He told me was looking at a Tundra instead of a Silverado when he starts shopping for his next truck (of course, I tried to get him to consider an F150...he is not a Ford guy) So, I told him that Consumer Reports dropped the Tundra off their "recommended" list due to reduced crash results...his reply??

"I don't give a fuck about that, they have them at 11,000 dollars off!!"

Well, remind him how ugly it is...

We all know what a strange new world we live in when Tundra and Ridgeline are even mentioned in the same article or even the same breath as Ford F-150.  This is what happens when you leave a crack in the door - next thing you know they're all over the place.

I will say this- shame on Ford and Chevy for having two generations to turn their reputations (real or perceived) around with Gen X and Millennial's and not being able to do so.  Tacoma, and Tundra  are by far the weakest and ugliest trucks on the market but many the young folks don't even shop anything else. My parking garage is full of both!  Two folks out of my small office recently purchased Tundra and didn't even shop Ford.

 

Edited by Kev-Mo

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26 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

They topic of the guys truck comes up and he said. "I have an 18 Tundra and got a really good deal on it. I would never buy an American truck, they just don't know how to make good reliable trucks."

That guy sure is uninformed. Even if he got a really good deal. Tundra is very much an American truck. It is designed, engineered, and assembled in the U.S., and has the second highest percentage of domestic parts content (actually U.S. + Canada) of any pickup truck sold in the U.S. Ford F-150 had the highest domestic parts content.

Maybe when you next meet this guy y'all can talk politics and you can set him straight. 😄 Chicken tax, how public policy resulted in a very distorted market for pickup trucks in the USA, etc.

4 minutes ago, Kev-Mo said:

We know CR was exposed for practices that put Toyota automatically into the 'recommended' category until they prove they don't deserve it. 

CR didn't do that. The rules for earning "recommended" status are the same for all automakers, based on the overall score. Here is what CR says. "CR’s Overall Score, which is calculated by combining a vehicle’s performance in our road tests; reliability and owner satisfaction ratings drawn from CR’s exclusive Auto Survey; the inclusion of blind spot warning and frontal crash prevention systems with pedestrian detection; and, if available, results from government and insurance industry crash tests."

Any vehicles with below average predicted reliability and/or poor crash test results are disqualified from "recommended" status.

I was surprised that Toyota Tundra earned "recommended" status at all, because it had the lowest road test score in its class (59). But it did have above average reliability and owner satisfaction. Also, all other half ton full size pickup trucks except Ford F-150 had worse than average predicted reliability. So Tundra's overall score, within the pickup truck class, was actually high enough to barely make the cut for "recommended". Well, until the IIHS released its latest crash test results.

Only 2 pickup trucks are now "recommended" by CR: Ford F-150 and Honda Ridgeline.

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14 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 Tundra is very much an American truck. 

 

Strongly dis-agree - Like saying:   Ichiro Suzuki is an American Baseball Player.  No, he is a Japanese ballplayer who  practices (practiced, I guess he is retired now) his craft in America. 

Same with Tundra,  a Japanese truck assembled in America, from Japanese suppliers operating in America.

We can agree to dis-agree on this.  But the bottom line:  Toyota is not operating here to be American, they are operating here to profit from our economy.   Not implying wrong or right, simply clarifying that they are not American.

 

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1 hour ago, Kev-Mo said:

Well, remind him how ugly it is...

We all know what a strange new world we live in when Tundra and Ridgeline are even mentioned in the same article or even the same breath as Ford F-150.  This is what happens when you leave a crack in the door - next thing you know they're all over the place.

I will say this- shame on Ford and Chevy for having two generations to turn their reputations (real or perceived) around with Gen X and Millennial's and not being able to do so.  Tacoma, and Tundra  are by far the weakest and ugliest trucks on the market but many the young folks don't even shop anything else. My parking garage is full of both!  Two folks out of my small office recently purchased Tundra and didn't even shop Ford.

 

Uh.  Trucks are the one area where the domestics have never let up and never suffered a bad reputation like they did with cars.  If they’d do any research, they’d find 1) the domestic trucks are the best around and 2) domestic brands overall don’t make crap anymore.

40 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

That guy sure is uninformed. Even if he got a really good deal. Tundra is very much an American truck. It is designed, engineered, and assembled in the U.S., and has the second highest percentage of domestic parts content (actually U.S. + Canada) of any pickup truck sold in the U.S. Ford F-150 had the highest domestic parts content.

Maybe when you next meet this guy y'all can talk politics and you can set him straight. 😄 Chicken tax, how public policy resulted in a very distorted market for pickup trucks in the USA, etc.

CR didn't do that. The rules for earning "recommended" status are the same for all automakers, based on the overall score. Here is what CR says. "CR’s Overall Score, which is calculated by combining a vehicle’s performance in our road tests; reliability and owner satisfaction ratings drawn from CR’s exclusive Auto Survey; the inclusion of blind spot warning and frontal crash prevention systems with pedestrian detection; and, if available, results from government and insurance industry crash tests."

Any vehicles with below average predicted reliability and/or poor crash test results are disqualified from "recommended" status.

I was surprised that Toyota Tundra earned "recommended" status at all, because it had the lowest road test score in its class (59). But it did have above average reliability and owner satisfaction. Also, all other half ton full size pickup trucks except Ford F-150 had worse than average predicted reliability. So Tundra's overall score, within the pickup truck class, was actually high enough to barely make the cut for "recommended". Well, until the IIHS released its latest crash test results.

Only 2 pickup trucks are now "recommended" by CR: Ford F-150 and Honda Ridgeline.

You’re wrong.   It’s been well documented that a new Toyota model will come out and it’s alreasy recommended (based on “previous reliability”) but the same doesn’t happen with a domestic brand even if the previous model was recommended.

this is the same outfit that called the Model S the most reliable vehicle ever tested, completely ignoring multiple issues they had with it (door handles that wouldn’t open etc).

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11 minutes ago, Kev-Mo said:

 

We can agree to dis-agree on this.  But the bottom line:  Toyota is not operating here to be American, they are operating here to profit from our economy.   Not implying wrong or right, simply clarifying that they are not American.

Thank you Kev-Mo, no problem at all sir. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on this. I actually agree with you about the bottom line you mentioned regarding Toyota. :)

My perspectives are as follows. 

1.) None of the major automakers operating in the United States, or any big business, are here to "be American". Wherever these corporations may be headquartered, the reason they do business in the U.S. is that they serve their shareholders by doing so.

2.) There are five companies that currently market full size half ton pickup trucks in the U.S. Two are American companies with their corporate HQ within U.S., GM and Ford. The other three, Toyota, FCA, and Nissan, have lots of employees and facilities in the U.S. but their primary corporate headquarters are in foreign countries.

3.) All of the full size half ton pickup truck models sold in the U.S., regardless of their parent companies' HQ, were designed and engineered entirely or almost entirely at U.S. facilities. And all of them sold in the U.S. market are also assembled exclusively in the U.S., Canada, or Mexico.

4.) The reason why #3 holds true is because of public policy and politics in the U.S. Trade barriers including a 25% tariff make it almost impossible for any company to successfully market to U.S. customers any pickup truck assembled outside the U.S., Canada, or Mexico.

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47 minutes ago, Kev-Mo said:

Same with Tundra,  a Japanese truck assembled in America, from Japanese suppliers operating in America.

I'm hardly a Tundra fan, but the truck was engineered in Michigan, just outside of Ann Arbor, at Toyota's U.S. Research and Development Center.

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Let's not go down that road again please.  Nobody is going to change their minds about Japanese Automakers in the US.

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37 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

  It’s been well documented that a new Toyota model will come out and it’s already recommended (based on “previous reliability”) but the same doesn’t happen with a domestic brand even if the previous model was recommended.

 

I am sure I had read that about CR as well, but cannot produce any proof.  Therefore when Rperez says I am wrong, I have no proof, but I can assure you I did not make it up.

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3 minutes ago, Kev-Mo said:

I am sure I had read that about CR as well, but cannot produce any proof.  Therefore when Rperez says I am wrong, I have no proof, but I can assure you I did not make it up.

There was a familial connection between CR and Toyota executives - I'll have to go find that connection.   And they gave a brand new Toyota model a recommended rating based solely on past experience whereas they did not do that with other products.   They were called out on it and changed that going forward.

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On the topic of Trucks in America - anyone noticed how fast gas prices are going up?  Of course the Business News outlets have the same old re-hashed reasons, but these trends tend to change buying habits...

 

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2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

You’re wrong.   It’s been well documented that a new Toyota model will come out and it’s alreasy recommended (based on “previous reliability”) but the same doesn’t happen with a domestic brand even if the previous model was recommended.

this is the same outfit that called the Model S the most reliable vehicle ever tested, completely ignoring multiple issues they had with it (door handles that wouldn’t open etc).

Might want to read CR rmc523 sir. Your statements about Toyota and about Tesla Model S are both incorrect. 

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2 hours ago, akirby said:

There was a familial connection between CR and Toyota executives - I'll have to go find that connection.   And they gave a brand new Toyota model a recommended rating based solely on past experience whereas they did not do that with other products.   They were called out on it and changed that going forward.

I remember years ago CR got called out for recommending the Toyota Corolla but not recommending the Geo Prism, even though they were the same car coming off the same assembly line.

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48 minutes ago, Gurgeh said:

I remember years ago CR got called out for recommending the Toyota Corolla but not recommending the Geo Prism, even though they were the same car coming off the same assembly line.

Same thing happened to Pontiac Vibe/ Toy Matrix. 

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18 hours ago, mackinaw said:

I'm hardly a Tundra fan, but the truck was engineered in Michigan, just outside of Ann Arbor, at Toyota's U.S. Research and Development Center.

Yes sir. Southeast Michigan is the birthplace of every currently mass produced full size LD pickup truck model in the world. Tundra was developed and engineered in Ann Arbor & Saline, F-150 in Dearborn & Allen Park, Silverado and Sierra in Warren, Ram 1500 in Auburn Hills, and Titan in Farmington Hills. The upcoming Rivian R1T is also being developed in Southeast Michigan, at the company's office in Plymouth.

Pretty cool that all of these automakers' engineering facilities for pickup trucks are within 50 miles of any of the others.

Edited by rperez817

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The last couple of new Tundras I’ve seen were fully loaded dressed up 4 wheel drives.  Both were being worked hard in farm country pulling heavy trailers loaded with equipment like backhoes and such.  I thought that was pretty interesting. 

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2 hours ago, rperez817 said:

Yes sir. Southeast Michigan is the birthplace of every currently mass produced full size LD pickup truck model in the world. Tundra was developed and engineered in Ann Arbor & Saline, F-150 in Dearborn & Allen Park, Silverado and Sierra in Warren, Ram 1500 in Auburn Hills, and Titan in Farmington Hills. The upcoming Rivian R1T is also being developed in Southeast Michigan, at the company's office in Plymouth.

Pretty cool that all of these automakers' engineering facilities for pickup trucks are within 50 miles of any of the others.

The Detroit Metro area, maybe all of SE Michigan, probably has the largest concentration of automotive engineers in the world.  The Detroit Three, transplants, suppliers, etc., all can be found there.  

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