jpd80 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, silvrsvt said: That started this whole problem-the CTS was doing "well" when it was the entry level product for Caddy (at least in the US) but with the ATS-which completely missed the mark and the CTS being pushed up market, both cars lost their shirts with their core buyers in the US. China was different, only one Alpha car was released there, the ATS-L, a longer wheelbase ATS that continues to sell better than US ATS and CTS. In my opinion, GM's major failing was not understanding that Euro Lux brands actually straddle Premium and Luxury segments, the sudden change in pricing at Cadillac was just too much for the market, so potential buyers just lost interest. The Alpha platform was completely unnecessary as the planned light weighting of Zeta would have been enough to cover a new CTS and DTS instead of XTS at Cadillac as well as being cost effective enough to cover Buick and Chevrolet. Sadly, the Zeta product envelope also covered up to a 120" wheelbase utility that was never developed, so there's your XT5 and XT6 years ago and for similar money as those FWD pretenders Edited March 22, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 On 3/22/2019 at 4:05 PM, jpd80 said: In my opinion, GM's major failing was not understanding that Euro Lux brands actually straddle Premium and Luxury segments, the sudden change in pricing at Cadillac was just too much for the market, so potential buyers just lost interest. GM can't do that or it will step on Buick, though if anything it shows why Buick should just be pulled from the US market. The other thing that doesn't help Cadillac overall, is they have a demographic and are attracting customers who while have a lot of money, have a different image. It has a very Bro/Urban/East Coast personality following. While that works for some sales, it turns off a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 3 hours ago, jasonj80 said: The other thing that doesn't help Cadillac overall, is they have a demographic and are attracting customers who while have a lot of money, have a different image. It has a very Bro/Urban/East Coast personality following. While that works for some sales, it turns off a lot more. That's the thing Lincoln seems to understand better than Cadillac. There are a finite set of buyers who will consider a Lincoln or a Caddy no matter how good the vehicle. And they favor certain types of vehicles. When you get outside that sweet spot you can get some sales but they're either low volume or require huge discounts or both. Caddy thought if they build a better 3 series or 5 series or 7 series that they'd get a lot of conquests when in reality most BMW buyers would never even set foot in a Cadillac showroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Especially since you have Buick, Caddy, and GMC sharing similar vehicles. I have a buddy that buys Buick. He wouldn't consider a Caddy. Has GMC only because he inherited it. He'd never go up to a Caddy even though he could afford it. So even in the GM crowd, many won't move up to Caddy when you have plenty of other offerings in a lower price point that get the job done just as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 20 minutes ago, 92merc said: Especially since you have Buick, Caddy, and GMC sharing similar vehicles. I have a buddy that buys Buick. He wouldn't consider a Caddy. Has GMC only because he inherited it. He'd never go up to a Caddy even though he could afford it. So even in the GM crowd, many won't move up to Caddy when you have plenty of other offerings in a lower price point that get the job done just as well. Why? Styling? Thinks it’s a snooty brand? Wife ran off with a Caddy salesman? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Why buy a Cadillac when a Buick fulfills all of his needs. The brand differentiation just isn't enough to justify the move up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 29 minutes ago, 92merc said: Why buy a Cadillac when a Buick fulfills all of his needs. The brand differentiation just isn't enough to justify the move up. I thought it was something more than just cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Makes sense really, does he have a small/medium business or sales? Sales people and business owners who don't want to be seen driving a Luxury car when they employ a bunch of people or visit clients tend to go for that Buick/Highend Ford/Highend Toyota, vs I'm getting ripped off and deserve a raise the boss drives an Escalade or he can get me a better deal and just screwed me on the purchases from him. VW/Subaru/Honda are fast becoming the vehicle of choice for drug reps, and University personal. Where Volvo's/BMW/Benz were the choices 10 years ago, perception is very important. This is the market Ford is targeting with the Explorer/Expedition as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 23 minutes ago, jasonj80 said: Makes sense really, does he have a small/medium business or sales? Sales people and business owners who don't want to be seen driving a Luxury car when they employ a bunch of people or visit clients tend to go for that Buick/Highend Ford/Highend Toyota, vs I'm getting ripped off and deserve a raise the boss drives an Escalade or he can get me a better deal and just screwed me on the purchases from him. VW/Subaru/Honda are fast becoming the vehicle of choice for drug reps, and University personal. Where Volvo's/BMW/Benz were the choices 10 years ago, perception is very important. This is the market Ford is targeting with the Explorer/Expedition as well. Good point-about 10 years ago I worked for a small company and we had a working meeting at a local golf course country club since they company was located of state. The owner of the company drives in with a new Range Rover, then tells everyone that no one is getting a raise and insurance rates are going up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 On 3/19/2019 at 2:43 AM, twintornados said: Well, since it is on the same architecture as Camaro - they should just market a four door Camaro. So this is it. 4 doors is how you make this trash can even uglier than it already it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 (edited) CT5 interior photos. Edited April 17, 2019 by rperez817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 "...most BMW buyers would never even set foot in a Cadillac showroom" Wasted so much money trying to make the CT's into 'Yuppie cars'. Now, BMW sells mostly CUV's to social climbers, far from the Car & Driver fan boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, 630land said: "...most BMW buyers would never even set foot in a Cadillac showroom" Wasted so much money trying to make the CT's into 'Yuppie cars'. Now, BMW sells mostly CUV's to social climbers, far from the Car & Driver fan boys. BMW sales in the U.S. for Q1 2019 was still 56% sedans/coupes/convertibles, 44% CUVs. If current trends continue, won't be long before it becomes 50/50 though. The "yuppie car" of 2019 is actually a luxury pickup truck like Ford F-150 King Ranch, GMC Sierra Denali, Chevy Silverado High Country, Toyota Tundra 1794 Edition, etc. Many customers who owned BMW, Cadillac, and other luxury sedans are now going for those trucks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 Cadillac is a rebrand Chevrolet..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, twintornados said: Cadillac is a rebrand Chevrolet..... That's true for the "Cadillac truck with the 22s" assembled in Arlington, TX. CT5 doesn't share its platform with any Chevrolet sedans though. Edited April 18, 2019 by rperez817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 14 hours ago, rperez817 said: That's true for the "Cadillac truck with the 22s" assembled in Arlington, TX. CT5 doesn't share its platform with any Chevrolet sedans though. Oh, I'm sorry....where in my comments did I say sedan?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 4 hours ago, twintornados said: Oh, I'm sorry....where in my comments did I say sedan?? You didn't say sedan, I did. Your statement "Cadillac is a rebrand of Chevrolet" is true for some Cadillac vehicles but not others. That's what I was getting at. To be specific Escalade, XTS, and XT5/XT6 are rebranded versions of Chevrolet Tahoe/Suburban, Impala, and Blazer respectively. Other Cadillac models including the new CT5 don't have a Chevrolet counterpart yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, rperez817 said: You didn't say sedan, I did. Your statement "Cadillac is a rebrand of Chevrolet" is true for some Cadillac vehicles but not others. That's what I was getting at. To be specific Escalade, XTS, and XT5/XT6 are rebranded versions of Chevrolet Tahoe/Suburban, Impala, and Blazer respectively. Other Cadillac models including the new CT5 don't have a Chevrolet counterpart yet. Then you haven't looked under a Camaro then..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, rperez817 said: To be specific Escalade, XTS, and XT5/XT6 are rebranded versions of Chevrolet Tahoe/Suburban, Impala, and Blazer respectively. Other Cadillac models including the new CT5 don't have a Chevrolet counterpart yet. They're not rebranded versions of Chevys, they share a platform. There is a huge difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 40 minutes ago, akirby said: They're not rebranded versions of Chevys, they share a platform. There is a huge difference. Exactly my point - everyone goes off the rails when you call a Cadillac a rebrand of a Chevrolet, but think nothing when it happens and a Lincoln is trivialized as nothing but a rebrand of a Ford. Same people lose their minds when you state that an Audi is nothing but a rebrand of a Volkswagen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 26 minutes ago, twintornados said: Exactly my point - everyone goes off the rails when you call a Cadillac a rebrand of a Chevrolet, but think nothing when it happens and a Lincoln is trivialized as nothing but a rebrand of a Ford. Same people lose their minds when you state that an Audi is nothing but a rebrand of a Volkswagen. Maybe it stems back to the 2006 Zephyr which is as close to a rebadge as you can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, akirby said: Maybe it stems back to the 2000 Escalade which is as close to a rebadge as you can get. Fixed....? Edited April 19, 2019 by twintornados 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 18 minutes ago, akirby said: Maybe it stems back to the 2006 Zephyr which is as close to a rebadge as you can get. 2006 Zephyr, every Navigator before the 2018, the old Aviator, I can go on and on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 1 minute ago, fuzzymoomoo said: 2006 Zephyr, every Navigator before the 2018, the old Aviator, I can go on and on. Navigator and Aviator at least had unique engines and interiors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 1 minute ago, fuzzymoomoo said: 2006 Zephyr, every Navigator before the 2018, the old Aviator, I can go on and on. But, the point is, they are not doing it now and haven't been for a long time, yet still people try to trivialize a Lincoln by referring it as a badge job....it isn't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.