atomcat68 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 At this point they should just make the VIN number the model with the last six digits "the personal touch". Here's what I would do: 7 seat CUV: Fleetwood 5 seat CUV: Deville large sedan: Seville Sporty sedan: Eldorado XT4: Eldorado Shooting Brake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 11 hours ago, atomcat68 said: At this point they should just make the VIN number the model with the last six digits "the personal touch". Here's what I would do: 7 seat CUV: Fleetwood 5 seat CUV: Deville large sedan: Seville Sporty sedan: Eldorado XT4: Eldorado Shooting Brake All those names just sound old. I get they have a history, but I don't think they'd be appropriate for the image Cadillac is going for. Their concept names have sounded more modern. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 27 minutes ago, rmc523 said: All those names just sound old. I get they have a history, but I don't think they'd be appropriate for the image Cadillac is going for. Their concept names have sounded more modern. Never throw away tradition. Rolls Royce, Bentley and Aston all use old sounding names (Phantom, Vanquish, Mulsanne.) Even Lincoln's nameplates are old sounding, but work. Older people are the ones with the money to buy the cars. Also, the number of Spanish speakers people in the USA are growing and having Spanish nameplates can't hurt there either. The only word nameplate Cadillac has is Escalade which I still find a cringeworthy name. It almost sounds like some forgotten Joel Gray musical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 17 minutes ago, atomcat68 said: Never throw away tradition. Rolls Royce, Bentley and Aston all use old sounding names (Phantom, Vanquish, Mulsanne.) Even Lincoln's nameplates are old sounding, but work. Older people are the ones with the money to buy the cars. Also, the number of Spanish speakers people in the USA are growing and having Spanish nameplates can't hurt there either. The only word nameplate Cadillac has is Escalade which I still find a cringeworthy name. It almost sounds like some forgotten Joel Gray musical. I don't think Phantom or Vanquish sound old. Mulsanne maybe, but those products also cater to a different clientele than a Cadillac does. Cadillac is trying to push/market itself as a "cool"/modern luxury brand. Using names like "Fleetwood" and "Brougham" and "Seville" just sound old and conjure images of grandma's car. Conversely, Elmiraj, Ciel, etc. sound more modern. Lincoln's names don't sound old to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, rmc523 said: I don't think Phantom or Vanquish sound old. Mulsanne maybe, but those products also cater to a different clientele than a Cadillac does. Cadillac is trying to push/market itself as a "cool"/modern luxury brand. Using names like "Fleetwood" and "Brougham" and "Seville" just sound old and conjure images of grandma's car. Conversely, Elmiraj, Ciel, etc. sound more modern. Lincoln's names don't sound old to me. I think if they come up with a truly breakthrough BEV or plug in that's revolutionary, then Escala or Elmiraj would be great. I can't just see applying Escala which was amazing as a show car to such a "regular" car as the CT5. What was even more sad is how badly they watered down the Escala style and changed enough to make it suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 I would have to say Brougham is probably best left in the past. Unless you want coach lights and landau tops. The memories are always better than it really was in most cases. That’s why continental from the 60s is cool and so is the Chrysler 300. Fleetwood I don’t think needs a comeback. I would think Allante could work. Not sure about Seville. That’s why Cadillac went to STS/SLS for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Eldorado and DeVille are the only 2 that have ANY resonance with me and I'm in that magical 25-40 demographic they covet so much (who also can't afford a Cadillac, I should add) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 The names are not the issue. Continental isn't exactly flying off the dealer lot but Lincoln didn't have any issue selling MKX before the name change. XT5 (and SRX before that) is decent enough SUV that it is selling just fine without a old fuddy duddy name like deVille. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 40 minutes ago, bzcat said: The names are not the issue. Continental isn't exactly flying off the dealer lot but Lincoln didn't have any issue selling MKX before the name change. XT5 (and SRX before that) is decent enough SUV that it is selling just fine without a old fuddy duddy name like deVille. You're correct. I think I've stated before, a name does not automatically equal a sales success. Just like an alphanumeric doesn't either. A named product can be successful, as can an alphanumeric, or they could both be failures. What matters is the product itself, and the quality, value, performance, etc. that that product delivers. That's what determines success. That said, a proper name can create an bigger emotional connection to a product. Which creates more of a response? ---- I have a "Navigator", or "I have an "ABC123". And that's not to say a connection can't be developed with an alphanumeric - the success of the Germans points to that, but I think a proper name generates an easier/quicker connection, whereas you have more of a time/buildup with an alphanumeric to create that connection, at least IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 The idea of the letter/Numbers is to make people just say I have a BMW/Mercedes/Lexus etc. Rather than saying I drive a Navigator/Nautilus etc. What's always been interesting to me is that people that drive cheap luxury cars will say they drive the brand, people with expensive ones will say the model they drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, rmc523 said: You're correct. I think I've stated before, a name does not automatically equal a sales success. Just like an alphanumeric doesn't either. A named product can be successful, as can an alphanumeric, or they could both be failures. What matters is the product itself, and the quality, value, performance, etc. that that product delivers. That's what determines success. That said, a proper name can create an bigger emotional connection to a product. Which creates more of a response? ---- I have a "Navigator", or "I have an "ABC123". And that's not to say a connection can't be developed with an alphanumeric - the success of the Germans points to that, but I think a proper name generates an easier/quicker connection, whereas you have more of a time/buildup with an alphanumeric to create that connection, at least IMO. The conventional wisdom is alphanumeric names help accrue that connection to the brand as opposed to individual models. For example, back in the day, a lot more people recognized Integra and Legend when prompted but comparably less people recognized Acura when prompted. From a marketing perspective, you want people to say "I drive an Acura Integra", not "I drive an Integra". Switching to Alphanumeric names help people get in the habit of saying "I drive an Acura RSX". The problem is when brands introduce alphanumeric names, they fall into the trap that marketing study says alphanumeric help elevate the brand. They forget the actual reason why certain alphanumeric naming schemes are successful. The point of alphanumeric scheme is to bring order... establish internal logic so you can tell model hierarchy without having any sort of intimate knowledge of the brand that would be required if the models had normal names - e.g. it is a lot easier to understand 3<5<7 series denotes size (and price) vs. Cimarron<Seville<deVille<Fleetwood. This is why Lincoln MK? was just total nonsense and no better than random names like Zephyr, Aviator and Continental... because MKZ, MKX and MKS were just as random and didn't help establish Lincoln as a brand of full line of vehicles from small to large. Edited March 19, 2019 by bzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Handler Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Interestingly, most of those old Cadillac names originated from the pre-war era of coachbuilding. Brougham, Coupe de Ville, and Town Car were types of bodies. The Fleetwood name was taken from Fleetwood Body. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 18 hours ago, rmc523 said: You're correct. I think I've stated before, a name does not automatically equal a sales success. Just like an alphanumeric doesn't either. A named product can be successful, as can an alphanumeric, or they could both be failures. What matters is the product itself, and the quality, value, performance, etc. that that product delivers. That's what determines success. That said, a proper name can create an bigger emotional connection to a product. Which creates more of a response? ---- I have a "Navigator", or "I have an "ABC123". And that's not to say a connection can't be developed with an alphanumeric - the success of the Germans points to that, but I think a proper name generates an easier/quicker connection, whereas you have more of a time/buildup with an alphanumeric to create that connection, at least IMO. Absolutely true! The overall product is king. The importance of names would be the tradition. BMW can get away with number cars, because that is what they did from the beginning. Everyone knows what a 3, 5, x5 or whatever because they have always maintained a consistency of nameplates. Lincoln and Cadillac adopted an alphanumeric scheme that makes no sense and they were not consistent with it. Even people in the industry like auto writers and salesmen often spoke of an MKZ as a MKS or MKX. It was hard to conjure up a mental image of what it was. Names are the easiest to latch on to. I am a car nut, and I cant remember what Acura is what. The only one I get right is the NSX, the sports car, and I'm still not sure I'm putting the letters in the right order. Cadillac isn't going to make it easier by calling a car a CT5 574854753^%(*^)* or whatever. It also doesn't help that the car is styled as forgettable as it is. I feel they dropped a pass on both the 7seat CUV and new sedan both do not look luxurious, and have forgettable names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 I can see the conversation on the sales floor now: Customer: Hi, I would like to look at a CT5 please Salesperson: Why yes! We have a CT5 400 right over here Customer: What does the 400 mean? Salesperson: Oh, that is the torque output of the engine Customer: What's a "torque output"? Salesperson: It is the amount of power the engine puts out Customer: Ahhh, I get it...so it has 400 torque power? Salesman: No, it's measured in Newton Meters Customer: What the heck is a "Newton Meter"? Salesman: It is a metric measurement of torque output. Customer: Oh...is the car European? Salesman: No, it's built right here in America. Customer: So why is it being measured via the metric system. Salesman: Because Cadillac is building "BMW beaters" Customer: I don't get it.... 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 1 hour ago, twintornados said: I can see the conversation on the sales floor now: Customer: Hi, I would like to look at a CT5 please Salesperson: Why yes! We have a CT5 400 right over here Customer: What does the 400 mean? Salesperson: Oh, that is the torque output of the engine Customer: What's a "torque output"? Salesperson: It is the amount of power the engine puts out Customer: Ahhh, I get it...so it has 400 torque power? Salesman: No, it's measured in Newton Meters Customer: What the heck is a "Newton Meter"? Salesman: It is a metric measurement of torque output. Customer: Oh...is the car European? Salesman: No, it's built right here in America. Customer: So why is it being measured via the metric system. Salesman: Because Cadillac is building "BMW beaters" Customer: I don't get it.... You forgot something Customer: Buys something else 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 On 3/20/2019 at 10:43 AM, twintornados said: I can see the conversation on the sales floor now: Customer: Hi, I would like to look at a CT5 please Salesperson: Why yes! We have a CT5 400 right over here Customer: What does the 400 mean? Salesperson: Oh, that is the torque output of the engine Customer: What's a "torque output"? Salesperson: It is the amount of power the engine puts out Customer: Ahhh, I get it...so it has 400 torque power? Salesman: No, it's measured in Newton Meters Customer: What the heck is a "Newton Meter"? Salesman: It is a metric measurement of torque output. Customer: Oh...is the car European? Salesman: No, it's built right here in America. Customer: So why is it being measured via the metric system. Salesman: Because Cadillac is building "BMW beaters" Customer: I don't get it.... Probably happens at fly-over state dealers, rust-belt buyers don't have money anymore.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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