rmc523 Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Cadillac's new system is identical to the Jaguar Land Rover system - somewhat based on the torque metric rating but not really. At the end of the day, it is just a way for Cadillac to (somewhat logically) add power rating to trim levels to differentiate pricing tiers. They have to do it this way because engine displacements are no longer a meaningful way to signal to unsophisticated buyers the model hierarchy (and thus pricing). There will be a time soon when most new vehicles will not have internal combustion engines so the old habits of labeling engine sizes to signal price/performance level has to change. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 Just now, bzcat said: Cadillac's new system is identical to the Jaguar Land Rover system - somewhat based on the torque metric rating but not really. At the end of the day, it is just a way for Cadillac to (somewhat logically) add power rating to trim levels to differentiate pricing tiers. They have to do it this way because engine displacements are no longer a meaningful way to signal to unsophisticated buyers the model hierarchy (and thus pricing). There will be a time soon when most new vehicles will not have internal combustion engines so the old habits of labeling engine sizes to signal price/performance level has to change. JLR's uses horsepower. F-Type P380 - petrol with 380-hp. Velar D180 - diesel with 180-hp. P for Petrol, D for Diesel. That's it. No conversions, no rounding. Much simpler and more straightforward than this system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 On 3/13/2019 at 4:54 PM, rmc523 said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 On 3/13/2019 at 5:17 PM, rperez817 said: All automotive engineers in the U.S. use Newton-meters for measuring torque. Also, Cadillac's system is one type of "virtual displacement" numbering that all the major luxury car brands use. Main difference is that Cadillac is using max torque as the standard rather than max power. As long as the numbers are used consistently in all Cadillac markets around the world, this system makes sense. It’s a dumb, unnecessary idea. I’m not sure why you would want to defend that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 22 hours ago, rmc523 said: Such a fun movie back in the day, lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 32 minutes ago, tbone said: It’s a dumb, unnecessary idea. I’m not sure why you would want to defend that. Because GM and Jaguar never do anything wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 I liked the simple alphanumeric models then throw a 4 or a V to designate AWD or performance models. Most non car people won’t get it or care about if a XT5 has a 400 next to it. This reminds me of the “let’s put the GM square logo on the fender of everything”. Unlike most folks on here, I welcome change and new ideas, but I don’t think this is one worth the effort. Even Ford’s major loss in the “mobility” stuff, ie chariot. If you don’t try new stuff you will never change. I feel that’s what happened to sears. They had the biggest catalog sales of anyone. But instead of keeping with the times and taking some chances like amazon. They stayed the same and lost it all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 48 minutes ago, akirby said: Because GM and Jaguar never do anything wrong. As rmc noted, even Jaguar doesn't do that. Their numbers relate to HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 15 minutes ago, Gurgeh said: As rmc noted, even Jaguar doesn't do that. Their numbers relate to HP. That was a general statement about Mr. Perez, not specifically about model numbers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 1 hour ago, tbone said: It’s a dumb, unnecessary idea. I’m not sure why you would want to defend that. 10 minutes ago, akirby said: That was a general statement about Mr. Perez, not specifically about model numbers. As I mentioned before, all of the Tier 1 luxury car brands, and most of the Tier 2 brands, use some form of "virtual displacement" numbering for their model hierarchies. It indicates relative performance level based on power (or torque, for Cadillac) of a car's powertrain. You are welcome to think it's unnecessary and dumb. But luxury car makers and their customers don't. akirby, if you want believe "GM and Jaguar never do anything wrong" go right ahead. You ain't speaking for anyone else including Mr. Perez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 1 hour ago, rperez817 said: As I mentioned before, all of the Tier 1 luxury car brands, and most of the Tier 2 brands, use some form of "virtual displacement" numbering for their model hierarchies. It indicates relative performance level based on power (or torque, for Cadillac) of a car's powertrain. You are welcome to think it's unnecessary and dumb. But luxury car makers and their customers don't. akirby, if you want believe "GM and Jaguar never do anything wrong" go right ahead. You ain't speaking for anyone else including Mr. Perez. The problem is not that they're trying to set up a performance/power level hierarchy. If they want to do that like other brands have, go for it. The problems are: 1) Its ANOTHER modification to the naming scheme they just came out with a few years ago, 2) This new system is designed to literally "show off" the car's power (which is fine).....only, they use a system nobody in the brand's home market (the US) uses (NM), and it's generously rounded on top of that. Your average person is going to think it means horsepower (the only figure most people are vaguely familiar with), and I guarantee that your average salesman will tout the number as such (horsepower) - themselves having no clue what it means. OR best case scenario, they DO present it as torque, but they say it has 400, when that's not the US figure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 3 hours ago, rperez817 said: As I mentioned before, all of the Tier 1 luxury car brands, and most of the Tier 2 brands, use some form of "virtual displacement" numbering for their model hierarchies. It indicates relative performance level based on power (or torque, for Cadillac) of a car's powertrain. You are welcome to think it's unnecessary and dumb. But luxury car makers and their customers don't. akirby, if you want believe "GM and Jaguar never do anything wrong" go right ahead. You ain't speaking for anyone else including Mr. Perez. Well, I guess since I’m a luxury make owner I’m qualified to have an opinion about it then, and that opinion remains that it is dumb and unnecessary. And I can vouch for my mother, whose last four vehicles were Cadillacs, the last being an XT5, could care less about a power designation on her vehicle. Especially one that is specified in a measurement our country doesn’t even use. Doing something just because someone else is doing it, doesn’t make it a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 You know, the other problem is dipshit salespeople who can't be bothered to learn their products are going to tell people the number means horsepower which is going to cause it's own set of problems. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 22 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: You know, the other problem is dipshit salespeople who can't be bothered to learn their products are going to tell people the number means horsepower which is going to cause it's own set of problems. Dipshit sales people... ah yes.... ranger production 24 hours a day yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, blwnsmoke said: Dipshit sales people... ah yes.... ranger production 24 hours a day yet? Not gonna happen until the Bronco launches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 36 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Not gonna happen until the Bronco launches Right over your head lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 32 minutes ago, blwnsmoke said: Right over your head lol Lol apparently. I'm 2 9% imperial stouts deeep right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 On 3/16/2019 at 4:34 AM, rperez817 said: akirby, if you want believe "GM and Jaguar never do anything wrong" go right ahead. You ain't speaking for anyone else including Mr. Perez. ...because akirby was being sarcastic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 I just can't imagine sitting in a board meeting and someone brining this idea up, and not having a conniption. Even when I have to sit down and see a bunch of engineers brag about "Oh we want to do this Texas Turnaround intersection", I'm already at the edge of my seat screaming..."NOOOO, you people do this, so you can get awards, brag to others you designed this but YOUR NOT DRIVING IT!!!"....they need to just STOP and look around instead of green-lighting senseless ideas...and I'm sure WE WONT be the only ones with these comments. Lets see how the media makes fun of them too. In other good news, at least Lincoln is going back to names...suddenly that's not a bad idea (cough cough Corsair)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadicalX Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Cadillac seems to be lost in nomenclatures. "CT5 400" seems very long and unmemorable. It also seems that they want to copy the germans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.I. Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 I´m old enough to remember Cadillacs with proper names. Everybody knew waht a Cadillac Fleetwood was. Or a Cadillac ElDorado. Or a Cadillac Sedan De Ville... Cadillac XT6 440 .... really??? Really??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 8 hours ago, RadicalX said: It also seems that they want to copy the germans That's been obvious since the first CTS came out.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said: That's been obvious since the first CTS came out.... And that approach has obviously been failing for well over a decade now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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