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Bob Rosadini

Ford Otosan-Commercial Vehicles

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Union costs in that region are also said to be high.

I just wonder if it would not have been wiser to move that production line elsewhere, like Camaçari, especially If one considers long term returns. Trucks were originally built in Anchieta and moved to São Bernardo many years ago, so I guess something similar would be executable. As has been announced, not only production at that plant will stop, but the whole commercialization chain will close down too - a decision which cannot be reverted when the economy moves towards a growth cycle, in a country totally dependent on truck transportation.

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5 minutes ago, 7Mary3 said:

Amen,

Like I said earlier.......

Like I said-"political /economic climate"  Country was in the tank.  But don't you think the decision was easy for Hackett?  Short term objectives are always the easiest. Was there excess capacity in that current market?  I guess so.   Ford unfortunately blinked first.

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You really have to wonder about this.  Keep in mind this move can be looked at as a positive for VW.  VW would likely not want Ford's truck operations in Brazil.  VW is spinning their truck operations off, and those operations are doing quite well in that "political economic climate" anyway.  The rest of Ford in South America looks just a little better to VW now, doesn't it?  I keep thinking about what bzcat said, no truck operations makes Ford's Brazil operation more valuable.  And, ausrutherford pointed out that not only the trucks but the poor selling Fiesta were all built in the same plant, so closing it was an easy decision.  Sure, put the Ranger in Argentina, that will really get VW's attention.  Next up, Europe....... 

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5 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

You really have to wonder about this.  Keep in mind this move can be looked at as a positive for VW.  VW would likely not want Ford's truck operations in Brazil.  VW is spinning their truck operations off, and those operations are doing quite well in that "political economic climate" anyway.  The rest of Ford in South America looks just a little better to VW now, doesn't it?  I keep thinking about what bzcat said, no truck operations makes Ford's Brazil operation more valuable.  And, ausrutherford pointed out that not only the trucks but the poor selling Fiesta were all built in the same plant, so closing it was an easy decision.  Sure, put the Ranger in Argentina, that will really get VW's attention.  Next up, Europe....... 

Ranger is already built in Argentina.

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Ka/EcoSport in Bahia Brazil

Ranger in Argentina

That's all is what's left in South America for Ford. Focus is being discontinued (currently in Argentina) and Fiesta just got the axe.

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2 hours ago, bzcat said:

Ka/EcoSport in Bahia Brazil

Ranger in Argentina

That's all is what's left in South America for Ford. Focus is being discontinued (currently in Argentina) and Fiesta just got the axe.

And they announced they are going to release new crossovers and trucks in their place.

The Ford Fiesta/Cargo/F plant used to produce 200k units a year. It was well south of 100k last year.

 

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Why not moving trucks to Bahia?

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Bahia is not setup to produce medium duty trucks so it will cost a lot money to setup truck production there. Plus the whole point of shutting down the truck plant is to make the car business more attractive for sale. Moving the medium duty trucks over to Bahia defeats that purpose.

 

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On 3/1/2019 at 9:47 AM, bzcat said:

Bahia is not setup to produce medium duty trucks so it will cost a lot money to setup truck production there. Plus the whole point of shutting down the truck plant is to make the car business more attractive for sale. Moving the medium duty trucks over to Bahia defeats that purpose.

 

Ford isn't selling off its S Am unit. They are just making it more profitable by cutting the fat.

They announced in their press release to that fat that they will release more utilities and trucks.

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Another thing is didn't I read that an F4000 truck is also being terminated in Brazil?  Well I think I read somewhere that unit sales for those was 170,000!  Not a shabby number!   It looks the size of a class 3 or 4 truck. I'm gonna have to recheck that.   

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36 minutes ago, Joe771476 said:

Another thing is didn't I read that an F4000 truck is also being terminated in Brazil?  Well I think I read somewhere that unit sales for those was 170,000!  Not a shabby number!   It looks the size of a class 3 or 4 truck. I'm gonna have to recheck that.   

F-Series sales in Brazil totaled 2,389 units and 690 units in Argentina.

In addition, the plant produces the Cargo (both generations) and the Fiesta:

Cargo II sales totaled 3,964 units in Brazil and 1,973 units in Argentina.

Cargo I sales totaled 2,953 units in Brazil and 625 in Argentina.

Fiesta sales totaled 16,069 units in Brazil and 14,269 in Argentina.

 

None of this is something to write home about.

And just to show you how bad that plant had fallen:

Fiesta sold over 100,000 units in Brazil/Argentina in 2005!

 

The 170k unit figure is likely the plant's total capacity. 

 

 

Edited by ausrutherford

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3 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

Another thing is didn't I read that an F4000 truck is also being terminated in Brazil?  Well I think I read somewhere that unit sales for those was 170,000!  Not a shabby number!   It looks the size of a class 3 or 4 truck. I'm gonna have to recheck that.   

Joe-well AUS"ford answered your volume number.  As for the  f-4000, looks  to me like a 2000 F-350!  Nice thing was I do believe it had a 4 cylinder Cummins and a manual transmission- something that I think would have sold well here-assuming the 4 banger Cummins was certifiable.

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Big Mack Truck forum has a thread on Ford's F-MAX entering Russian market with video.  I saw something else in there that was interesting but now i can't find it!  Damn!  And I think Bob might know what it is!  No wait!  That's what it was!  Big Mack Truck had the link to F4000, dated May 2014 stating 170,000 units.  Bob, check that out.

Edited by Joe771476

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2 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

Big Mack Truck forum has a thread on Ford's F-MAX entering Russian market with video.  I saw something else in there that was interesting but now i can't find it!  Damn!  And I think Bob might know what it is!  No wait!  That's what it was!  Big Mack Truck had the link to F4000, dated May 2014 stating 170,000 units.  Bob, check that out.

Joe,

It was never ever anywhere that close. Given the previous sales of the plant, that was likely the capacity of the entire plant for Fiesta, Cargo I and II, and F-Series.

Ford even ended F-Series production at the plant for around 3 years before bringing it back around 2014.

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It is a shame they cannot make a small and profitable truck operation in Bahia. Or even Argentina, close to the Ranger, now that the Focus is gone. Shurting down their whole truck operation, including dealerships, is doomed to affect negatively the brand in the region.

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yes I was wrong, the 170,000 F4000 figure is the total from 1957!

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2 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

yes I was wrong, the 170,000 F4000 figure is the total from 1957!

They might have sold that many in the US that year, but not in Brazil. 

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On 3/10/2019 at 1:41 PM, ausrutherford said:

They might have sold that many in the US that year, but not in Brazil. 

No I meant the 170,000 figure is from 1957 to now!  Sixty-two year total.

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4 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

Check out Big Red from the 1964 New York World's Fair.

 

Big Red - 1964 - YouTube

Nice but what was more impressive IMO were the WT tractors with that turbine that were in actual Ford fleet use in interplant part transfers.  I guess Ford-as well as the rest of the industry-could not get the economy out of those turbines to justify them.

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I think I posted this in a VW/Ford alliance thread, but it should be mentioned here also that VW has cancelled its Traton heavy truck IPO offering because of a perceived slowdown in financial markets and other factors.  I also read that VW is facing another round of lawsuits regarding the dieselgate scandal.  Ironically California is using VW monetary awards to make alternative energy trucks like this possible. Scroll down for the video.  Ford thanks you VW!!!

Roush CleanTech: Near-zero autogas F-750 offers cheaper & more capable solution than electric | Medium Duty Work Truck Info

 

 

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So although Ford Otosan has the capacity for 15,000 heavy trucks, they only produced just than 5,800 last year. 

About 1,400 units were exported from Turkey.

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