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I think I posted this in a VW/Ford alliance thread, but it should be mentioned here also that VW has cancelled its Traton heavy truck IPO offering because of a perceived slowdown in financial markets and other factors.  I also read that VW is facing another round of lawsuits regarding the dieselgate scandal.  Ironically California is using VW monetary awards to make alternative energy trucks like this possible. Scroll down for the video.  Ford thanks you VW!!!

Roush CleanTech: Near-zero autogas F-750 offers cheaper & more capable solution than electric | Medium Duty Work Truck Info

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Joe771476 said:

I think I posted this in a VW/Ford alliance thread, but it should be mentioned here also that VW has cancelled its Traton heavy truck IPO offering because of a perceived slowdown in financial markets and other factors.  I also read that VW is facing another round of lawsuits regarding the dieselgate scandal.  Ironically California is using VW monetary awards to make alternative energy trucks like this possible. Scroll down for the video.  Ford thanks you VW!!!

Roush CleanTech: Near-zero autogas F-750 offers cheaper & more capable solution than electric | Medium Duty Work Truck Info

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

Looks like Roush is extending their school bus propane 6.8 into the F-650 for 8 months or so.      

Wonder how the new 7.3L Essex V8 will respond to Roushs' experience...something tells me, they already have several examples being tested right now. Only a guess on my part, I have no inside intel...

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17 minutes ago, twintornados said:

Wonder how the new 7.3L Essex V8 will respond to Roushs' experience...something tells me, they already have several examples being tested right now. Only a guess on my part, I have no inside intel...

YOU CAN BET ON THAT.  Didn't the engineer in  that introductory video when they announced it mention the propane option?

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Ford can't get out of the medium duty segment without angering a ton of entities and customers.  If that anger trickles down to class 1 thru 5, they're all done. Engine-wise, Roush and Blue Bird bus would be ripping. Blue Bird is using Ford engines and transmissions in their propane, gas and CNG Vision buses.  Only the diesel Vision bus is not Ford, being a Cummins coupled with an Allison tranny.  I wonder why they haven't given the Ford diesel/trans. a chance, even if it means on an experimental basis.  

Edited by Joe771476
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2 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

Ford can't get out of the medium duty segment without angering a ton of entities and customers.  If that anger trickles down to class 1 thru 5, they're all done. Engine-wise, Roush and Blue Bird bus would be ripping. Blue Bird is using Ford engines and transmissions in their propane, gas and CNG Vision buses.  Only the diesel Vision bus is not Ford, being a Cummins coupled with an Allison tranny.  I wonder why they haven't given the Ford diesel/trans. a chance, even if it means on an experimental basis.  

Joe are those Vision buses the same size-that is the Ford power train and the  Cummins/Allison combos are in the same GVW bus?  Assuming that is the case, IMO just a matter of no confidence in the 6.7 Power Stroke.  

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School districts that operate diesel buses probably already have a fleet of Cummins/Allison buses so it makes sense to offer diesel that way if you are Blue Bird.

Similarly, school districts that buys propane or gasoline or CNG buses probably already have a fleet of Ford engined buses so it makes sense to offer it that way.

I wouldn't necessarily assume Blue Bird has anything against Ford 6.7 Powerstroke. School buses last a long time, way longer than the typical 12 years for transit buses. So school districts are pretty locked in on what fuel system they must buy and if they happen to be a diesel district, they probably have strong preference for Cummins/Allison to keep maintenance as simple as possible.

Just to put it in some perspective... Southern California banned diesel about 20 years ago. Everyone started buying CNG or gasoline after that. We just got rid of the last diesel transit buses last year but LAUSD still have roughly 60/40 split in favor of diesel. Some of those buses are 40 years old and in excellent shape - they only run twice a day and maybe 30 miles round trip. It will take a long time to cycle out the remaining diesel buses. Now imagine another area where there are no restriction on new diesel buses... why would a school district that need to replace 1 bus out of a fleet of 40 (so essentially 1 bus a year) bother with anything other than Cummins/Allison that is common to the rest of the fleet?

Edited by bzcat
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I was watching a video of Sept. 11, 2001 and saw some footage of some FDNY Ford Cargo tractors hauling Collapse and Rescue trailers to the scene that day.  Here are some photos but most of them appear to be models, but if you look hard enough,  you'll see a few real ones!!!   I think they might have used them for some tiller ladders, but I'm not sure about that and those tractors wouldn't have had any pumps on them like a custom piece.  I can't find any photos of that application, so I could be wrong.

FDNY Ford cargo trucks - AOL Image Search Results  

Edited by Joe771476
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On 3/28/2019 at 2:45 PM, Joe771476 said:

I was watching a video of Sept. 11, 2001 and saw some footage of some FDNY Ford Cargo tractors hauling Collapse and Rescue trailers to the scene that day.  Here are some photos but most of them appear to be models, but if you look hard enough,  you'll see a few real ones!!!   I think they might have used them for some tiller ladders, but I'm not sure about that and those tractors wouldn't have had any pumps on them like a custom piece.  I can't find any photos of that application, so I could be wrong.

FDNY Ford cargo trucks - AOL Image Search Results  

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Nice video of the Ford power train in a Pierce Saber apparatus.  These powertrains need to be bullet proof and there is no room for failure!  I hope they can pull it off!   Unfortunately Ford is relatively late to the diesel engine/transmission big boy arena with Cummins/Allison (Allison once owned by GM)  and Detroit (formerly owned by GM, now by Daimler)/Allison having decades of experience. This could make or break Ford.  Like I said a while back BEFORE they offered the Ford in this apparatus, if they can take the beating in a fire truck with the high RPM's, they can take a beating in anything!  By the way, watch some of the Pierce videos of the production line and some walkarounds.  These trucks have everything but the kitchen sink in them now!  Electrical wiring tunnels for ease of access and even retractable steps (into the cab)!  Wouldn't it be awesome if Ford/Pierce could come up with a cab with some subtle styling cues from the beloved Ford C-series?!!   "You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one!"

Saber® Pumper with Ford Power Stroke® Turbo Diesel Power Train - YouTube

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As always, try not to cry guys.  Beautiful truck. That must be Falmouth MA most likely, right Bob?  By the way, there are 24 compilations of fire apparatus responding to calls and dozens of fire apparatus parade videos, with 100K, 600K, 1 million, 6 million, one has 63 million views!  So I'm not the only nut!  One vintage fire apparatus video did surprise me.  There must have been 30 American LaFrances  and another 30 CF Macks, from the 60's/70's but not one Ford C-series which totally baffled me!  Who remembers the Crowns in Los Angeles you always saw in TV shows including the TV show Emergency.  Then Ward LaFrance placed there truck in the show as a sales gimmick but apparently it didn't help!  Bob do you remember the Maxims?  Weren't they made in Middleboro MA?  If anybody gets a chance, search out the "tiller drift Seattle Fire dept."  The best part is in the first minute or so.

Falmouth Fire-Rescue Engine 24 + Slick top Car 28 - YouTube

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5 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

As always, try not to cry guys.  Beautiful truck. That must be Falmouth MA most likely, right Bob?  By the way, there are 24 compilations of fire apparatus responding to calls and dozens of fire apparatus parade videos, with 100K, 600K, 1 million, 6 million, one has 63 million views!  So I'm not the only nut!  One vintage fire apparatus video did surprise me.  There must have been 30 American LaFrances  and another 30 CF Macks, from the 60's/70's but not one Ford C-series which totally baffled me!  Who remembers the Crowns in Los Angeles you always saw in TV shows including the TV show Emergency.  Then Ward LaFrance placed there truck in the show as a sales gimmick but apparently it didn't help!  Bob do you remember the Maxims?  Weren't they made in Middleboro MA?  If anybody gets a chance, search out the "tiller drift Seattle Fire dept."  The best part is in the first minute or so.

Falmouth Fire-Rescue Engine 24 + Slick top Car 28 - YouTube

Joe- for sure Falmouth MA.        and yes I do remember the Crowns-only ones I ever saw though were the ones on TV! As for Maxims, yes Middleboro MA.  Buddy of mine has a very nice one-later model with the flat radiator shell.  Now Ford nut that you are check out this C-8000.  Absolute mint as you can tell by the paint.  Was taken out of service by a well funded local town and a friend bought it.  The little blond that you can barely see in it is one of my grandsons.  The "rest of the story"-my pal calls me up and says.."sold the C model.  I say.."to who".."Ah some guy from Connecticut-says he was in trash business -and he gets up this way as his son sometimes races at Loudon-some long name-begins with "L".  I say ..Logano?  For sure-guy not into Nascar but he follows it now!

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I remember Crown's!  Both Los Angeles and Los Angeles County went for decades not buying much else.  Nothing like the sound of a 1,100 cube Hall-Scott powered Firecoach running Code 3.  They were not cheap, quite a bit more expensive than a Seagrave or ALF, but justified buy giving 20+ years of service and guaranteed parts support 'for ever'.  Didn't hurt their plant was just south of downtown L.A. for most of their existence.  

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10 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

I remember Crown's!  Both Los Angeles and Los Angeles County went for decades not buying much else.  Nothing like the sound of a 1,100 cube Hall-Scott powered Firecoach running Code 3.  They were not cheap, quite a bit more expensive than a Seagrave or ALF, but justified buy giving 20+ years of service and guaranteed parts support 'for ever'.  Didn't hurt their plant was just south of downtown L.A. for most of their existence.  

I figured for sure you would-were they bought out or just folded up? As for the Hall-Scotts I think a lot of departments had them- in this part of the country if it was gas it was a Mack 707 , or Hall-Scott or 534 fords, 549 IH even V-12 GMC's

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1 hour ago, 7Mary3 said:

Crown's main business was school buses, and they got to a point where they couldn't compete.  At some point they were sold to G.E., and the end came soon after.  Carpenter bought the remains.   

Hah- remember those from the movies too-pusher buses right.  G.E...could they have picked a worse buyer to insure continuity..

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2 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

Bob, did you check out what I'm guessing is a Mack in that Canadian fire dept video?  I've seen some photos of Macks with the C-series Ford cab, but don't remember seeing those style door handles, wheel wells and grille.

Joe, I did look at it.   remember the C cab was designed by Ford, built by Budd.  Also was used in the N series Mack-don't know how that worked financially for Ford but cabs were quite different in that Mack had a big dog house and the 673 diesel was used.  Fords no dog house.  My guess is whoever built the ladder truck did their own "hatchet" job to utilize cab components as they saw fit.  Remember that thing had a Detroit in it.  could have been a 6V-53? 6V-71?  they would have been a better fit but as I remember, it looked like it had long hood panels in back of front seats so probably a 6-71.

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