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Bob Rosadini

Ford Otosan-Commercial Vehicles

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Just curious if anyone has any knowledge of just what interaction there is with Ford Otosan.  In particular when it comes to commercial vehicles. It is my understanding that all heavy truck engineering world wide is handled by Ford Otosan-which is  owned jointly by Ford and the Koc family on a 50/50 basis.  I went to the Ford Otosan Portal and it is an impressive site.  One thing that jumped out...1200 engineers employed.

A few of us have repeatedly wondered why the 9L Ecotorque diesel is not brought here to provide another option to the 6.7.  I recognize it would have to undergo certification but how far is Euro 6 from US EPA standards?  

Or again-is "One Ford" yesterday's newspaper.  

And by the way, the new F-Max Ford which is "international Truck of the Year" is being rolled out all across Europe and the middle east.  When you look at the commitment these people have going up against the existing big truck power houses of Daimler, Volvo, VW/Scania etc., it is impressive.

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2 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Just curious if anyone has any knowledge of just what interaction there is with Ford Otosan.  In particular when it comes to commercial vehicles. It is my understanding that all heavy truck engineering world wide is handled by Ford Otosan-which is  owned jointly by Ford and the Koc family on a 50/50 basis.  I went to the Ford Otosan Portal and it is an impressive site.  One thing that jumped out...1200 engineers employed.

A few of us have repeatedly wondered why the 9L Ecotorque diesel is not brought here to provide another option to the 6.7.  I recognize it would have to undergo certification but how far is Euro 6 from US EPA standards?  

Or again-is "One Ford" yesterday's newspaper.  

And by the way, the new F-Max Ford which is "international Truck of the Year" is being rolled out all across Europe and the middle east.  When you look at the commitment these people have going up against the existing big truck power houses of Daimler, Volvo, VW/Scania etc., it is impressive.

Well to be clear, Ford Otosan is 41-41% joint venture. The rest is publicly traded. Koc does not make its own vehicles. They are basically a holding company that allows Ford access into the Turkish market while protecting their investment politically.

F-Max won't be launched in all of Europe. Only middle and eastern Europe (Cargo already exists in eastern Europe). They intend to market in 50 nations within the next three years. They are currently only in about 18 now.

Ford Otosan has long been Ford's nice secret since it has produced for almost a century. It led the engineering for the 2nd Gen Cargo (which is now also produced in Brazil and China) and the Transit Courier.

They are even getting into concepts now with the F-Vision:

image.png.b2742b35fec7184d60b890dd71cf158e.png

 

Quick note: Ford Otosan only has the current capacity of 15,000 units for the Cargo and F-Max. They won't go near Traton, Volvo, etc with that current capacity. But they are in it for the long haul. 

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1 hour ago, Joe771476 said:

They should go full tilt into Germany and Great Britain.  That's where the volume and money is.  Don't give into Daimler and VW. 

Joe for sure on Germany and rest of EU ex GB.  GB?- another cost factor with right hand drive??  

How about it AUS'ford-you seem to have some good knowledge on this issue.

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48 minutes ago, passis said:

Ford Brazil annnnouced it will close the plant is Sao Bernardo, where trucks are built:

https://g1.globo.com/carros/noticia/2019/02/19/ford-anuncia-fim-da-producao-em-sao-bernardo-do-campo-fiesta-sai-de-linha.ghtml

Page translated:

 

Quote

Ford announced today that it will close the São Bernardo do Campo (SP) plant this year and stop selling trucks in South America.

According to the brand, the decision is "an important milestone in the return to sustainable profitability of its operations in South America."

With the end of production in São Bernardo, Fiesta and Cargo, F-4000, F-350 lines, will no longer be sold when the stocks are finished.

"Ford is committed to South America by building a profitable and sustainable business, strengthening product offerings, creating positive experiences for our customers and working with a more agile, compact and efficient business model," said Lyle Watters, president of Ford South America.

According to a statement released by the manufacturer, the measure was taken after several months of searching for alternatives and partnerships. Excessive volume of investments to meet market needs and increasing costs with regulatory items would have become unviable for the operation.

Among the initiatives are a reduction of more than 20% in staff costs and administrative structure throughout the region; the strengthening of the product line with emphasis on SUVs and pickup trucks; and the expansion of global partnerships, such as the recent alliance with Volkswagen .

Asked by the G1 , Ford said it has not yet measured the number of employees affected by the plant's closure, but that there will be a "significant number." Around 3 thousand people work in various sectors.

The Metalworkers' Union said the decision was expected. According to the president of the union, Aparecido Inácio da Silva, there was already a process of negotiations that indicated for the closure of the factory.

"When a business lives in search of benefits, sacrificing themselves or looking for alternatives to survive, there is no way to make the balance positive," said Aparecido.

 

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Ford Trucks International  /  February 21, 2019

Rated up to 500 horsepower and 2,500 N.m of torque, the Ford Trucks construction series' proprietary 13 litre Ecotorq big bore engine always delivers on power and strength.

Featuring a high powered engine brake, you're always in control with the power of 4,000Nm of braking torque available at your fingertips. Thanks to Ford’s “Smart Brake” management system, it is possible to control Cargo's engine brake and retarder simultaneously for unparalleled braking performance.

Ford Trucks and You – "Sharing the Load"

At Ford Trucks, we’re serious about trucking. It's why we designed the Ford Trucks construction series from the ground up to meet your needs and expectations. See your authorized Ford heavy truck dealer for details, or visit the global Ford heavy truck website at https://www.fordtrucks.com.tr/tr-en/home

.

Photo 2.jpg

 

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I was thinking if Ford was going to get the Otosan medium/heavy trucks into North America they way to do it would be through the Brazilian operation.  If Otosan's large commercial truck capacity is only 15,000 units/year, they are not going anywhere beyond Eastern Europe.  I had no idea they were that small! 

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5 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

I was thinking if Ford was going to get the Otosan medium/heavy trucks into North America they way to do it would be through the Brazilian operation.  If Otosan's large commercial truck capacity is only 15,000 units/year, they are not going anywhere beyond Eastern Europe.  I had no idea they were that small! 

Either the Brazilian operations will come to Otosan in Turkey or maybe they will move it all to China and use it with JMC....crazy idea would be to move it all to Cuautitlán Mexico for production and sales in Mexico and South America...

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1 hour ago, twintornados said:

Either the Brazilian operations will come to Otosan in Turkey or maybe they will move it all to China and use it with JMC....crazy idea would be to move it all to Cuautitlán Mexico for production and sales in Mexico and South America...

JMC already rebadges the Cargo as the Veyron.

Just send the production line to Avon Lake. If it can manage the F-650 and F-750 line, it can do the Cargo. 

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6 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

I was thinking if Ford was going to get the Otosan medium/heavy trucks into North America they way to do it would be through the Brazilian operation.  If Otosan's large commercial truck capacity is only 15,000 units/year, they are not going anywhere beyond Eastern Europe.  I had no idea they were that small! 

Well they can always expand, I am just noting it is that small for now. 

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15 minutes ago, ausrutherford said:

JMC already rebadges the Cargo as the Veyron.

Just send the production line to Avon Lake. If it can manage the F-650 and F-750 line, it can do the Cargo. 

That would be ideal...but, I have a hunch that some of the Cargo cabs do not meet US crash standards...

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6 minutes ago, twintornados said:

That would be ideal...but, I have a hunch that some of the Cargo cabs do not meet US crash standards...

Well they were still making the first gen with the new second gen down there. The second gen is able to meet Euro crash standards so there is that...

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I told you that VW was going to tell Ford to get out of certain regions around the world!  Nobody believed me!  Just because Ford was fourth doesn't mean they were going to STAY in 4th, especially with the new F-Max!  Let's see the next country/continent VW tells Ford to get out of!  So they're closing the plant; it doesn't mean they couldn't import them in from Turkey or wherever.

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5 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

I told you that VW was going to tell Ford to get out of certain regions around the world!  Nobody believed me!  Just because Ford was fourth doesn't mean they were going to STAY in 4th, especially with the new F-Max!  Let's see the next country/continent VW tells Ford to get out of!  So they're closing the plant; it doesn't mean they couldn't import them in from Turkey or wherever.

I don't believe VW has "told" Ford anything....in any alliance, there will be discussions of who gets what so that at the end of the day, both companies thrive.

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2 hours ago, twintornados said:

I don't believe VW has "told" Ford anything....in any alliance, there will be discussions of who gets what so that at the end of the day, both companies thrive.

In support of your statement are we not reading that things have not gone as smoothly as originally thought?  

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yes Bob, I read there has been some sticky points already!  But hold onto your hat: I did some research and I came up with some info.  First of all, Brazil is about half of South America.  Now according to my info, VW in 2016 sold 17,780 trucks and buses.  In Brazil, Daimler sold 15,200 units in 2015.  So am I correct that Ford was selling about 15,000 units?  So it appears Ford was running neck and neck with the big boys Daimler and VW and Ford is getting out because they aren't number one???!!!  You're kidding, right?!   Sounds fishy to me!

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Ford quit the Cargo/F-Series/Fiesta for they were not making money.

Cargo sales have not recovered even near to its sales just a few years ago and was going nowhere.

Fiesta sales were hurt by the all-new Ka. 

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2 hours ago, ausrutherford said:

Ford quit the Cargo/F-Series/Fiesta for they were not making money.

Cargo sales have not recovered even near to its sales just a few years ago and was going nowhere.

Fiesta sales were hurt by the all-new Ka. 

Like I said-"political /economic climate"  Country was in the tank.  But don't you think the decision was easy for Hackett?  Short term objectives are always the easiest. Was there excess capacity in that current market?  I guess so.   Ford unfortunately blinked first.

 

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6 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Like I said-"political /economic climate"  Country was in the tank.  But don't you think the decision was easy for Hackett?  Short term objectives are always the easiest. Was there excess capacity in that current market?  I guess so.   Ford unfortunately blinked first.

 

Ford's worst losers just so happened to be built in the same plant. I think it is that simple. 

Ford might very well expand their Argentine plant for the Ranger/Amarok, so I do not think its about industrial capacity. 

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