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Automobile Magazine interview with Hau Thai-Tang about 5 architectures


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https://www.automobilemag.com/news/ford-platforms-hau-thai-tang-interview/

Just saw this interesting article by Automobile Magazine that was published yesterday. Interview conducted with Hau Thai-Tang, Ford's development chief, discussed the five flexible architectures as well as wanting to launch new vehicles faster. This one part caught my eye and got me thinking. Read the bold and italic parts in Thai-Tang's answers.
 

Quote

 

AM: What’s your new platform strategy?

Hau Thai-Tang: We shifted from nine platforms under One Ford to five flexible architectures. The first is unitized body, front-wheel drive/all-wheel drive. This underpins the new Focus just launched in Europe. Eventually, a lot of our other C-sized products will come off this flexible architecture. Next is unitized body, but rear-wheel drive/all-wheel drive underpinning the new Explorer and the Lincoln Aviator. All rear-drive unitized body products will come off this architecture. The third is commercial vehicles, being led out of Europe for the next-generation Transit products.

Mustang will at some point shift to the Explorer/Aviator architecture, correct?

Our goal is to migrate all our products onto those five flexible architectures. We don’t want to proliferate “orphan architectures” going forward. At the end of the day, we have to make sure the business case works. There are some markets where the cost structures of those five architectures don’t work. In China, the sport-utility segment is large and growing a little bit. It’s really stratified into three sub-segments; high-priced, mid, and low, and most of the growth is happening in the low-revenue portion of that sub-segment.

 

Interesting that Thai-Tang said all rear drive unibody vehicles will indeed go on CD6 architecture that is shared with the Explorer/Aviator. He also said Ford does not want to keep doing 'orphan architectures' going forward. Is this confirmation from someone inside Ford that the 2020/2021 Mustang is indeed the CD6 product? I do know that some insiders here have said that Hackett canceled the CD6 Mustang and will just update the current S550 platform for the next Mustang (S650) which will allow hybridization. But I'm wondering if Thai-Tang is actually confirming once-and-for-all that Mustang is indeed CD6? Or it is actually possible that the Mustang is shifting to the updated S650 in 2020/2021 but that would only be a short-run platform before finally shifting to CD6 after the S550/S650 has exhausted its run. This is very interesting for me to see that. He did say that it's his goal to shift all products onto the five flexible architectures and does not want any more orphan architectures... 'going forward'. He did mention that the business case would have to work. I don't see how it wouldn't work in North America as far as Mustang onto CD6. So that got me thinking a bit more about the new Mustang coming.

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It's really only BORG/Assimilator who is pushing the NG Mustang isn't CD6 narrative, and that flies directly in the face of everything Ford has said about future platforms, everything I personally have heard about it (which admittedly is not very much at all), and definitely defies all logic. 

The scope of the entire CD6 program has definitely changed since sedans were stopped because at the very least the next generation Continental that won't see the light of day was supposed to move to it, and possibly Fusion too. I was never able to really get a handle on that one before it got canceled. 

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Mustang's unique rear hip section is why Ford's later  sedan platforms couldn't accommodate it, the required unique compact IRS only became available with CD4 and actually used in S550. The  virtual link IRS eliminating those pesky trailing links that would once prevent commonality of rear chassis structure, it's no longer an issue.

The quantum jump from what is called S550 to CD6 may not be as big as imagined and may actually be more an evolution that makes electrification and AWD that much easier..So I wonder if the current S550 is only a small step away from becoming CD6.

 

 

Edited by jpd80
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6 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Mustang's unique rear hip section is why Ford's later  sedan platforms couldn't accommodate it, the required unique compact IRS only became available with CD4 and actually used in S550. The  virtual link IRS eliminating those pesky trailing links that would once prevent commonality of rear chassis structure, it's no longer an issue.

The quantum jump from what is called S550 to CD6 may not be as big as imagined and may actually be more an evolution that makes electrification and AWD that much easier..So I wonder if the current S550 is only a small step away from becoming CD6.

 

 

Got to wonder how much, if anything, of the new RWD platform is related to the stillborn GRWD system Ford was developing until about 2008 with the downturn.

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Another thing to consider about platform consolation-the Mustang might not move to a CD6 platform per say, but might become a branch of it.

I have a feeling that the next gen model will be a major refresh to allow electrification (PHEV/PHEV models), but the bones will still be S197 based like the current S550 is.

Further more, suspension components, switch gear, wiring harnesses and other major end items like powertrains (engine/transmissions) will be shared with the CD6 platform. 

from what I understand, one of the major changes with the S550 was it shared harnesses another things with the CD4 platform, which was one of the big changes outside of the IRS being added. 

Its sorta like the upcoming T3 platform that is supposed to underpin everything from the Ranger/Bronco/F-series/Expedition going forward-they all won't have the same frame, but they'll share alot of major end items. 

With the Explorer moving to RWD configuration-it opens up sharing engines with the F-150 and other BOF trucks (with in engine compartment limitations) which helps with costs of developing engines/power trains. 

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11 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Is it related at all to the Mustang?

S550? I don't believe so. If anything S550 is more closely related to CD4 than S197 simply because they share wiring harnesses and the IRS in the Mustang is very similar to the rear axle in the AWD Fusion/Edge/Continental, despite the fact that until the Lincoln came along, FRAP didn't build AWD cars. 

Not sure if I said this before but because of the similarities between CD4 and S550, I believe that CD4 and CD6 are more closely related than we are being lead to believe by Ford. Remember at one time it was leaked that CD6 was supposed to be more modular and capable of both FWD/AWD and RWD/AWD but over the last 2 years the scope of the program changed and I think that (and I remember akirby stating this to be his opinion too) C2 is really just the FWD version of CD6 and at some point the 2 were branches off into separate platforms. I'll be curious to see how many modules, harness and chassis parts are shared among all of the C2 and CD6 vehicles in 3-5 years, especially since we recently learned that the next generation T6 is being folded into the F-150 program which tells me they are serious about more modular "architectures" as they call them. 

 

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16 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

With the Explorer moving to RWD configuration-it opens up sharing engines with the F-150 and other BOF trucks (with in engine compartment limitations) which helps with costs of developing engines/power trains. 

I'll have to ask my friend who works at Livonia how similar the hybrid capable 10R is to the non hybrid. I do know that the 10R in the Ranger is damn near identical to the F-150/Mustang version but with a slightly smaller casing and the associated changes with cooling/lubrication channels that come with that. 

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All those reports that say that the CD6 will not be for cars are difficult to believe. Ford will not make a platform only for 2 nameplates. And China/Europe needs sedans. I´m sure , in the near future ,we will hear something about a sedan or two on CD6 (Mondeo and variants at least).

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8 hours ago, falconlover 1 said:

All those reports that say that the CD6 will not be for cars are difficult to believe. Ford will not make a platform only for 2 nameplates. And China/Europe needs sedans. I´m sure , in the near future ,we will hear something about a sedan or two on CD6 (Mondeo and variants at least).

VW derived sedans in Europe.

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Explorer moving to longitude drivertain  was derived from the need to adopt electrification, where Ford was already committed to spending the money to future-proof F-150.

So once the Explorer to longitude cake was baked, you start to look around and see what else can be added to the baking line. And my guess it is at that point, someone had to make the call on whether the resulting platform was going to be RWD-only or capable of FWD as well. That's when the cookie crumpled for the large sedans (CD4 sedan replacements) business case and Ford decided there was no need for FWD because Mondeo/Fusion's days were numbered.  Mustang was always going to be RWD so no reason it wouldn't be part of CD6.

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This part is also very key... it clarified that the 5 platform is actually 5 flexible architectural systems. It's the platforms (30% of the cost) plus all the top hat subsystems (40% of the cost) that makes up the "C2" and "CD6".

If this reads very familiar, it is because this is exactly the same as VW and Toyota's platform strategy. They are also capturing the vast majority of the cost (up to 70% in Ford's case) in these systems. The remaining 30% is vehicle specific like exterior and interior styling.

 

[The five architectures] account for about 30 percent of the value in the car. Another 40 percent historically has been in the top hat, which we haven’t done a very good job of managing. Powertrains, fuel systems, HVAC systems, electrical-distribution systems, seating systems, cross-car beams, switches, infotainment systems, radios, moonroofs, latches, mirrors—all of those things for the most part we have been doing program by program. We end up having a lot of complexity because each program team is redesigning those things sometimes unnecessarily just because they can. As we redesign product development, we’re calling this a module catalog approach, designing them to be used across vehicle lines to reduce complexity and have a lot more volume scale that we translate to better value for our customers. Our suppliers can operate at higher levels of utilization.

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All rear-drive unitized body products will come off this architecture. 

The certainly implies more RWD products are coming (Edge/Nautilus?).

 

Even though we made the decision to exit the unprofitable North American sedan business, our goal is to replace those products at the same price point because we recognize the importance of having affordable vehicles to attract customers.

Interesting that they'll be at the same pricepoint, but crossovers.

I guess it'll be the next size segment up, though?

 

On 1/26/2019 at 3:25 PM, fuzzymoomoo said:

It's really only BORG/Assimilator who is pushing the NG Mustang isn't CD6 narrative, and that flies directly in the face of everything Ford has said about future platforms, everything I personally have heard about it (which admittedly is not very much at all), and definitely defies all logic. 

The scope of the entire CD6 program has definitely changed since sedans were stopped because at the very least the next generation Continental that won't see the light of day was supposed to move to it, and possibly Fusion too. I was never able to really get a handle on that one before it got canceled. 

I get why, but it's a shame we won't get to see a "proper" Continental.

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

Interesting that they'll be at the same pricepoint, but crossovers.

I guess it'll be the next size segment up, though?

That would make the most sense:

EcoSport (B Class) replaces the Focus (C Class)

Escape (C Class) replaces the Fusion (CD Class)

But the Edge doesn't replace the Taurus nor does the Explorer replace anything directly...

 

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12 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Escape and Edge sales  aren't going up,  so Fusione buyers are mostly going elsewhere and Ford will pick up  new groups of truck and utility buyers.

jpd, it is a little early to say that Edge sales aren't going up, as December sales set a record (see below, from Carsalesbase.com). But your point is true nevertheless. You aren't going to "replace" a discontinued product with a long-existing, mid-cycle product. Plus, Edge sales overall in 2018 were down somewhat (something you typically see in the year prior to a redesign or refresh, as many buyers will just wait for the improved product) and it is too early to know whether December sales levels will continue into 2019. 

 

 
Ford
Edge
2015
Ford
Edge
2016
Ford
Edge
2017
Ford
Edge
2018
January 7.581 9.533 9.091 8.519
February 6.526 12.455 11.126 10.216
March 9.405 14.005 11.730 13.919
April 13.097 11.484 12.147 11.240
May 14.399 12.384 13.752 12.332
June 12.587 11.177 13.411 11.822
July 10.020 10.512 11.156 10.150
August 11.832 11.204 10.838 11.563
September 10.262 10.322 11.476 9.177
October 10.011 8.064 11.036 10.264
November 8.137 10.757 13.180 9.787
December 10.263 12.691 13.660 15.133
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19 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

jpd, it is a little early to say that Edge sales aren't going up, as December sales set a record (see below, from Carsalesbase.com). But your point is true nevertheless. You aren't going to "replace" a discontinued product with a long-existing, mid-cycle product. Plus, Edge sales overall in 2018 were down somewhat (something you typically see in the year prior to a redesign or refresh, as many buyers will just wait for the improved product) and it is too early to know whether December sales levels will continue into 2019. 

 

 
Ford
Edge
2015
Ford
Edge
2016
Ford
Edge
2017
Ford
Edge
2018
January 7.581 9.533 9.091 8.519
February 6.526 12.455 11.126 10.216
March 9.405 14.005 11.730 13.919
April 13.097 11.484 12.147 11.240
May 14.399 12.384 13.752 12.332
June 12.587 11.177 13.411 11.822
July 10.020 10.512 11.156 10.150
August 11.832 11.204 10.838 11.563
September 10.262 10.322 11.476 9.177
October 10.011 8.064 11.036 10.264
November 8.137 10.757 13.180 9.787
December 10.263 12.691 13.660 15.133

Those increased Edge sales in December could also be due to aggressive discounting on 2018 models.through December and January

Dealer numbers of 2018 Edge remaining is now approx. 2,800 to about 16,000 2019 Edges.

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On 1/26/2019 at 3:25 PM, fuzzymoomoo said:

It's really only BORG/Assimilator who is pushing the NG Mustang isn't CD6 narrative, and that flies directly in the face of everything Ford has said about future platforms, everything I personally have heard about it (which admittedly is not very much at all), and definitely defies all logic. 

The scope of the entire CD6 program has definitely changed since sedans were stopped because at the very least the next generation Continental that won't see the light of day was supposed to move to it, and possibly Fusion too. I was never able to really get a handle on that one before it got canceled. 

I couldn't exactly remember who it was that said that the next gen Mustang was not going on CD6. Borg/Assimilator did get other things right such as the Explorer/Aviator details though.

On 1/26/2019 at 4:16 PM, jpd80 said:

Mustang's unique rear hip section is why Ford's later  sedan platforms couldn't accommodate it, the required unique compact IRS only became available with CD4 and actually used in S550. The  virtual link IRS eliminating those pesky trailing links that would once prevent commonality of rear chassis structure, it's no longer an issue.

The quantum jump from what is called S550 to CD6 may not be as big as imagined and may actually be more an evolution that makes electrification and AWD that much easier..So I wonder if the current S550 is only a small step away from becoming CD6.

Interesting to see how the S550 came about and how close it may be to become the CD6.

Thanks everyone for all of your comments here as I was wondering about the details of next generation Mustang in terms of architecture/platform and other things. Not sure if it's still 2023MY or sooner. However the 2020 Shelby GT500 has just been revealed and that's one exciting vehicle here so it's still pretty far out for the next generation.

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