Trailhiker Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 F-150volt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Weight is weight-unless there is some fundmential way of doing it differently (using batteries as structural member for example) you going to have that issue anyways. At that point, its going to be a completely different product then a standard F-series. Maybe they'll call it a F-150-E or something? My thoughts would be to make the battery pack part of the bed assembly (with protection of course)... How about an Aluminum frame ......the weight reduction over a steel frame may compensate for much of the added battery weight. Edited January 17, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 17 minutes ago, BoomerSooner said: ......However, with an EV, particularly a pickup used to haul or tow things, wouldn't its abilities diminish in lockstep with its state of charge? Thus, hypothetically, the EV F150 might be able to pull the 18 foot boat up a mild grade while at 80% charged, but not at 30% charged. When the EV is used as a toy to prove you're "woke," some minor degradation of performance at 20% charge is no big deal. But, when it's a truck used for a job, I'm not so sure "toy" status is sufficient. Good points, all of them. It will be interesting to see how manufacturers address these issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 39 minutes ago, BoomerSooner said: Throughout the 400 mile range on a tank of gas in my Edge, I still have 280 bhp (which, nominally, performs better when I've lightened the load by 16 gallons (6.3 lbs x 16 = 100.8 pounds)). However, with an EV, particularly a pickup used to haul or tow things, wouldn't its abilities diminish in lockstep with its state of charge? Thus, hypothetically, the EV F150 might be able to pull the 18 foot boat up a mild grade while at 80% charged, but not at 30% charged. When the EV is used as a toy to prove you're "woke," some minor degradation of performance at 20% charge is no big deal. But, when it's a truck used for a job, I'm not so sure "toy" status is sufficient. With current batteries, performance should remain nearly the same throughout the charge level. I would assume as you near minimum charge it would decrease performance to save the battery, but outside of that edge condition, it should remain the same. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, fordmantpw said: With current batteries, performance should remain nearly the same throughout the charge level. I would assume as you near minimum charge it would decrease performance to save the battery, but outside of that edge condition, it should remain the same. That's the way I understand it, too. You get full power throughout the charge lifecycle at least up to the last few %. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, BoomerSooner said: Throughout the 400 mile range on a tank of gas in my Edge, I still have 280 bhp (which, nominally, performs better when I've lightened the load by 16 gallons (6.3 lbs x 16 = 100.8 pounds)). However, with an EV, particularly a pickup used to haul or tow things, wouldn't its abilities diminish in lockstep with its state of charge? Thus, hypothetically, the EV F150 might be able to pull the 18 foot boat up a mild grade while at 80% charged, but not at 30% charged. When the EV is used as a toy to prove you're "woke," some minor degradation of performance at 20% charge is no big deal. But, when it's a truck used for a job, I'm not so sure "toy" status is sufficient. This is not how EV works. You have a very flaw understanding of how these vehicles work. If it can haul something at 80% charge, it can haul the same thing at 30% charge. The state of charge corresponds to range, not speed or load. The speed or load capacity is a function of the electric motor output, just like any other vehicle with an internal combustion engine. How much your truck can haul depends on what kind of torque the engine is producing, not the size of the gas tank. Of course, when you reach below a certain point of charge, the range is 0 so the speed or load is a moot point. But that is no different than if you ran the gas tank dry on an ICE. Edited January 17, 2019 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 If you want to save weight... Find a way to incorporate the battery into the frame itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, ausrutherford said: If you want to save weight... Find a way to incorporate the battery into the frame itself. Shouldn't be that hard to do once you take out the fuel tank, driveshaft, transfer case, axles and exhaust pipes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Shouldn't be that hard to do once you take out the fuel tank, driveshaft, transfer case, axles and exhaust pipes. Might actually come out lighter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 15 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Even though mass market BEVs are still 10-15 years down the road 10-15 years down the road?? Mass market BEVs are readily available now! The best selling domestic brand car in the U.S. last month was a BEV. The best selling domestic brand truck will be a BEV too in a few years. That truck will either be BEV Ford F-Series or the Tesla pickup by the mid 2020s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, rperez817 said: The best selling domestic brand truck will be a BEV too in a few years. That truck will either be BEV Ford F-Series or the Tesla pickup by the mid 2020s. Willing to bet a pint of your favorite beverage on that? Hell, may as well throw in a steak dinner! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) I don't know about best selling but I will take any bet that says PHEV, hybrid (mild or parallel), and EV trucks combined will be 50% of the light duty market by 2025 - so anything up to F-150 size. My guess is F-150 sales mix in 2025 will look something like this: I4 turbo: 15% V6 turbo: 30% V8: 5 % hybrid (perhaps V6): 20% PHEV (either I4 or V6 or V8... not sure how the market will evolve yet): 20% EV 10% I remember making a post very similar to this one a few years ago when Ford was introducing the 3.5 Ecoboost. I said within 5 years, majority of F-150 sales will not be V8 and lots of people here called me crazy ? Edited January 18, 2019 by bzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 14 minutes ago, bzcat said: I don't know about best selling but I will take any bet that says PHEV, hybrid (mild or parallel), and EV trucks combined will be 50% of the light duty market by 2025 - so anything up to F-150 size. My guess is F-150 sales mix in 2025 will look something like this: I4 turbo: 15% V6 turbo: 30% V8: 5 % hybrid (perhaps V6): 20% PHEV (either I4 or V6 or V8... not sure how the market will evolve yet): 20% EV 10% I remember making a post very similar to this one a few years ago when Ford was introducing the 3.5 Ecoboost. I said within 5 years, majority of F-150 sales will not be V8 and lots of people here called me crazy ? I would agree with this, as this seems very reasonable. I would increase V6 turbo by 10% and drop HEV and PHEV by 5% each, and maybe take 5% total out of HEV, PHEV, and BEV and give it to the V8. This is much more reasonable than saying the best selling truck will be BEV in a few years. That just ain't gonna happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 The shear volume of F150 makes me think that it will reach a lot more buyers open to BEV truck, 5% of 600,000 is 30, 000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 hour ago, fordmantpw said: Willing to bet a pint of your favorite beverage on that? Hell, may as well throw in a steak dinner! Yes sir! Electrified vehicles represent the future of cars and light trucks, including pickups. Ford's announcement of BEV F-150 suggests that development of that truck is now in full swing. I think Ford is in the strongest position to capitalize on the huge market opportunity for electrified pickup trucks. Tesla is next, wouldn't be surprised if their long rumored pickup truck is confirmed this year. Whether my bet wins or not come 2025, I'll gladly invite you to my family's house for beverages and Texas barbecue. I'll probably have at least one BEV car or truck by then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pffan1990 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 5 hours ago, ausrutherford said: If you want to save weight... Find a way to incorporate the battery into the frame itself. I had thought that is what Ford would be doing since they're shrinking down to five flexible modular architectures. I know there are modules which could apply to one another. Like how the next Mustang (S650) will still be on the current S550 but substantially upgraded but using the modules from the CD6 in order to apply the hybrid setup for the next Mustang. So I would think the next F-150 platform coming 2020 would use the hybrid modules to enable hybridization for the F-150 as well as some modules of the BEV unit to enable the next F-150 to go full electric while still being true body-on-frame. Someone here had mentioned that the F-150 Electric is on the BEV architecture which would mean it's unibody? 5 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Shouldn't be that hard to do once you take out the fuel tank, driveshaft, transfer case, axles and exhaust pipes. Yeah, that would fit with the F-150 architecture using the BEV's module as I mentioned above. If that's how they designed all their upcoming architectures to have sharable modules. Just as how the battery is placed under the passenger seats on the CD6 unit for the Hybrid of Explorer and Aviator without eating into passenger and cargo space, I would think they could apply that to the next F-150. Remove the parts you mentioned and place battery and all its required parts in the frame locations where the original parts were removed and then go from there. Won't eat up cab space as well as bed space. Could be lighter which could keep payload capacity at a respectful capability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 2 hours ago, bzcat said: I don't know about best selling but I will take any bet that says PHEV, hybrid (mild or parallel), and EV trucks combined will be 50% of the light duty market by 2025 - so anything up to F-150 size. My guess is F-150 sales mix in 2025 will look something like this: I4 turbo: 15% V6 turbo: 30% V8: 5 % hybrid (perhaps V6): 20% PHEV (either I4 or V6 or V8... not sure how the market will evolve yet): 20% EV 10% By 2025? I highly doubt it. I don't see them replacing the 3.3 with an EcoBoost I4, nor do I see the V8 percentage being significantly (if at all) below the EB35. I certainly don't see electrified F-150s coming anywhere near 50% in five years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Good move, not a surprise. Probably was a consideration when this generation F-150 was on the drawing board. I was told the 2019 silverado/Sierra platform was engineered to accomodate a BEV drivetrain from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 9 hours ago, rperez817 said: 10-15 years down the road?? Mass market BEVs are readily available now! The best selling domestic brand car in the U.S. last month was a BEV. The best selling domestic brand truck will be a BEV too in a few years. That truck will either be BEV Ford F-Series or the Tesla pickup by the mid 2020s. Don't bend the numbers to suit your needs: The total world wide BEV market is roughly 1% of total market https://www.businessinsider.com/electric-cars-roadblocks-tax-credit-2018-4 Its not going to change in 5 years either...people are keeping cars/trucks longer, pretty much anything you buy today will last you 10-15 years with just minimal mainatance on it. The recharging infranstucture isn't there yet to support all these vehicles-there is going to have to be a standarized system and stations built to support them. The US isn't Southern California. In 10 years, yet, but not before then-we will slowly get there or at least have a decent percentage of vehicles that are electric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 11 hours ago, rperez817 said: 10-15 years down the road?? Mass market BEVs are readily available now! The best selling domestic brand car in the U.S. last month was a BEV. The best selling domestic brand truck will be a BEV too in a few years. That truck will either be BEV Ford F-Series or the Tesla pickup by the mid 2020s. Tesla just announced another 7% reduction of employees today... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, rperez817 said: Yes sir! Electrified vehicles represent the future of cars and light trucks, including pickups. Ford's announcement of BEV F-150 suggests that development of that truck is now in full swing. I think Ford is in the strongest position to capitalize on the huge market opportunity for electrified pickup trucks. Tesla is next, wouldn't be surprised if their long rumored pickup truck is confirmed this year. Whether my bet wins or not come 2025, I'll gladly invite you to my family's house for beverages and Texas barbecue. I'll probably have at least one BEV car or truck by then. They can "confirm" and even show it tomorrow. It'll be 3 years before they put it out, minimum. Edited January 18, 2019 by rmc523 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve557 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 They can keep this electric stuff, keep building the Super Duties with a big V8 (without start stop bs or any other hybrid junk) is all I ask in the future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 hour ago, ausrutherford said: Tesla just announced another 7% reduction of employees today... That makes sense. One of Tesla's big problems is too many employees. This latest reduction suggests that Tesla is becoming serious about improving its operational efficiency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 hour ago, rmc523 said: They can "confirm" and even show it tomorrow. It'll be 3 years before they put it out, minimum. Good point rmc523 sir. Tesla may improve its new product rollout timing with the pickup and other future products. Hopefully they apply the lessons learned from Model 3. But I agree that 2022 to 2023 is the earliest that Tesla pickup truck sales will be in full swing. That's why I think Ford is now the #1 company for upcoming BEV pickup trucks. Their announcement is the first from any automaker about a firm commitment to mass produce BEV pickups. Who knows, Ford's announcement may get Tesla to work harder on getting its pickup into production. And GM too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Hopefully they apply the lessons learned from Model 3. And you would have thought they would have learned from the Model X about build complexity and yet they didn't. Sincerely, the Model 3 and it's 5 piece wheel well assembly which literally every other company uses one piece for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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