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Fully Electric F-150 on the Way


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Ford Motor Co. confirmed plans to build a fully electric F-Series pickup, which industry observers called an unexpected move that protects the truck franchise against Tesla and other competitors.

“We’re going to be electrifying the F-Series — battery electric and hybrid,” Jim Farley, Ford president of global markets, said Wednesday during a presentation at the Deutsche Bank Global Automotive Conference in the MGM Grand in Detroit.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2019/01/16/ford-f-150-electric-pickup-truck/2595515002/?fbclid=IwAR2kCMXDyG_GNOZPnJmUdBYw2VZNigCwO3MfANAJ29mYNteFR40st1DnHXk

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Farley said electrified F-Series, not F-150 specifically. Obviously F-150 will be a focus for sure and that sounds like a BEV play at this point. But to me, this statement sounds like they are hinting at electrified Superduty too. You can get PHEV hardware and batteries into a F450 or 550 and still maintain a pretty decent payload.

What if the delays with the 7.0 V8 is really due to hybrid system integration and transmission calibration...?

 

Edited by bzcat
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The F-150 BEV is actually a unique architecture and development code.  I'm told it's NOT just adding batteries to the new P702.  It's not clear to me if this involves just the underpinnings or a whole new product.  I suspect this is more ambitious than assumed.  I hope it is considering how crucial this product series is to Ford, they have to get it right the first time or Tesla and the upstarts are going to upstage them.  

I'm unaware of any Hybrids coming to SuperDuty, but P703 is the next one and it's possible it will get something.  

Edited by Assimilator
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So this is what, the umpteenth MAJOR NEW plan to reinvent the company in as many months? I wonder what the shelf life of this plan will be?

Ford executives appear to be floundering lately trying to figure out what to invest in. Two years ago it was all about autonomous and mobility.  Of course that was never going to pan out in any major way. Now we're hearing much less about that and Ford has taken it's foot off that gas pedal.  Then it was the diesel F150 was going to revolutionize the half ton market.  And now you'd be easily forgiven for not realizing a diesel F150 exists.  I suspect a bev F-150 sells even fewer than the diesel one. A hybrid one might sell, but only if it provides a useful 120v AC outlet capable of running big appliances/tools, not because truck buyers want prius parts in their truck.

Ford would do well to focus on the fundamentals for a bit. Stop aiming for the moon and shooting themselves in the feet for awhile and just figure out what mainstream retail and commercial buyers want and honing their products to be best in class value/performance/quality.  That model worked great for the last 100s years and it's exactly what they need to do now.  Focusing on margins to the exclusion of everything else (especially competitiveness/quality of the product) never ends well. Get the product right and profits will follow.

Edited by Sevensecondsuv
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Also, this "electrified f150" business smacks of a cheap shot at fixing the stock price after taking a royal beating yesterday. What do the analysts want to hear above all else? "Electrification!!!!!!" And what is Ford's cash cow? So just put the two together "electric F150" and it'll send all the analysts into a bad case of the vapors!

Edited by Sevensecondsuv
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4 minutes ago, Sevensecondsuv said:

Also, this "electrified f150" business smacks of a cheap shot at fixing the stock price after taking a royal beating yesterday. What do the analysts want to hear above all else? "Electrification!!!!!!" And what is Ford's cash cow? So just put the two together "electric F150" and it'll send all the analysts into a bad case of the vapors!

Did you read the Free Press article?  A quote:

“Tesla is talking about coming out with an electric pickup. And look what Tesla has done in the luxury segment. They’ve clobbered just about everybody,” McElroy said. “You can’t pooh-pooh that people won't be interested in an electric pickup. Rivian Automotive is coming out with an all-electric pickup. These are the crown jewels for Ford Motor Co., the F-Series. Ford has got to react to competitive threats.”

 

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50 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

The F-150 BEV is actually a unique architecture and development code.  I'm told it's NOT just adding batteries to the new P702.  It's not clear to me if this involves just the underpinnings or a whole new product.  I suspect this is more ambitious than assumed.  I hope it is considering how crucial this product series is to Ford, they have to get it right the first time or Tesla and the upstarts are going to upstage them.  

I'm unaware of any Hybrids coming to SuperDuty, but P703 is the next one and it's possible it will get something.  

Does this then mean we could be looking at an additional vehicle in the F Series lineup? An F-EV, as it may be called? 

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10 hours ago, Sevensecondsuv said:

Also, this "electrified f150" business smacks of a cheap shot at fixing the stock price after taking a royal beating yesterday. What do the analysts want to hear above all else? "Electrification!!!!!!" And what is Ford's cash cow? So just put the two together "electric F150" and it'll send all the analysts into a bad case of the vapors!

 

10 hours ago, Sevensecondsuv said:

So this is what, the umpteenth MAJOR NEW plan to reinvent the company in as many months? I wonder what the shelf life of this plan will be?

Ford executives appear to be floundering lately trying to figure out what to invest in. Two years ago it was all about autonomous and mobility.  Of course that was never going to pan out in any major way. Now we're hearing much less about that and Ford has taken it's foot off that gas pedal.  Then it was the diesel F150 was going to revolutionize the half ton market.  And now you'd be easily forgiven for not realizing a diesel F150 exists.  I suspect a bev F-150 sells even fewer than the diesel one. A hybrid one might sell, but only if it provides a useful 120v AC outlet capable of running big appliances/tools, not because truck buyers want prius parts in their truck.

Ford would do well to focus on the fundamentals for a bit. Stop aiming for the moon and shooting themselves in the feet for awhile and just figure out what mainstream retail and commercial buyers want and honing their products to be best in class value/performance/quality.  That model worked great for the last 100s years and it's exactly what they need to do now.  Focusing on margins to the exclusion of everything else (especially competitiveness/quality of the product) never ends well. Get the product right and profits will follow.

The fundamentals of any business are to respond to the market. The market is clearly moving towards all-electrics eventually. Not doing a BEV F-Series truck would be the mistake that broke the company. 

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Even though mass market BEVs are still 10-15 years down the road, there is no reason to not start developing them now, due to product lifecycles. Typical platform lasts about 10 years and making a BEV out of an ICE developed platform is normally a very bad idea due to packing constrants with batteries. 

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11 hours ago, Assimilator said:

The F-150 BEV is actually a unique architecture and development code.  I'm told it's NOT just adding batteries to the new P702.  It's not clear to me if this involves just the underpinnings or a whole new product.  I suspect this is more ambitious than assumed.  I hope it is considering how crucial this product series is to Ford, they have to get it right the first time or Tesla and the upstarts are going to upstage them.  

Given the way trucks are built, I don't see why having a seperate architure is going to make a major improvement-this isn't a unibody car/CUV where battery placement eats into interior space etc. 

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3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

Given the way trucks are built, I don't see why having a seperate architure is going to make a major improvement-this isn't a unibody car/CUV where battery placement eats into interior space etc. 

It won't eat into interior space, but every pound added by a battery is a pound taken away from the payload. It's easier to balance that if you're not trying to shoehorn batteries into an existing architecture.

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37 minutes ago, SoonerLS said:

It won't eat into interior space, but every pound added by a battery is a pound taken away from the payload. It's easier to balance that if you're not trying to shoehorn batteries into an existing architecture.

Weight is weight-unless there is some fundmential way of doing it differently (using batteries as structural member for example) you going to have that issue anyways.

At that point, its going to be a completely different product then a standard F-series. Maybe they'll call it a F-150-E or something? 

My thoughts would be to make the battery pack part of the bed assembly (with protection of course)...

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6 minutes ago, akirby said:

The only thing that makes sense to me is if they’re going to make it super-light which will of course affect payload and towing ability.  Maybe it will be a quarter-ton F100E?

I was just thinking that a fully electric F100 would make the most sense. Especially for commercial fleets. I would expect the performance/payload probably being better than the V6 anyway.

Edited by jcartwright99
dupe sentence
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15 hours ago, Assimilator said:

The F-150 BEV is actually a unique architecture and development code.  I'm told it's NOT just adding batteries to the new P702.  It's not clear to me if this involves just the underpinnings or a whole new product.  I suspect this is more ambitious than assumed.  I hope it is considering how crucial this product series is to Ford, they have to get it right the first time or Tesla and the upstarts are going to upstage them.  

I'm unaware of any Hybrids coming to SuperDuty, but P703 is the next one and it's possible it will get something.  

Interesting that they'd just throw out what makes F-150 F-150.

14 hours ago, Sevensecondsuv said:

So this is what, the umpteenth MAJOR NEW plan to reinvent the company in as many months? I wonder what the shelf life of this plan will be?

Ford executives appear to be floundering lately trying to figure out what to invest in. Two years ago it was all about autonomous and mobility.  Of course that was never going to pan out in any major way. Now we're hearing much less about that and Ford has taken it's foot off that gas pedal.  Then it was the diesel F150 was going to revolutionize the half ton market.  And now you'd be easily forgiven for not realizing a diesel F150 exists.  I suspect a bev F-150 sells even fewer than the diesel one. A hybrid one might sell, but only if it provides a useful 120v AC outlet capable of running big appliances/tools, not because truck buyers want prius parts in their truck.

Ford would do well to focus on the fundamentals for a bit. Stop aiming for the moon and shooting themselves in the feet for awhile and just figure out what mainstream retail and commercial buyers want and honing their products to be best in class value/performance/quality.  That model worked great for the last 100s years and it's exactly what they need to do now.  Focusing on margins to the exclusion of everything else (especially competitiveness/quality of the product) never ends well. Get the product right and profits will follow.

Nobody ever said diesel would revolutionize the half ton market.

16 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Weight is weight-unless there is some fundmential way of doing it differently (using batteries as structural member for example) you going to have that issue anyways.

At that point, its going to be a completely different product then a standard F-series. Maybe they'll call it a F-150-E or something? 

My thoughts would be to make the battery pack part of the bed assembly (with protection of course)...

F-E50?

Guess that eliminates upsizing to Super Duty though

eF-150?  (ha, could still be pronounced "F-150")

Would they just put batteries where the ICE would go?  Or batteries within the frame (meaning between it where a driveshaft would go), allowing the hood to become a new lockable storage compartment for powertools, etc. without taking up cabin space?  Seems odd that they'd just chuck basically the entire F-150 in the trash and start from scratch for an electric version.  I mean, would it tow the same with a different frame setup?

 

Do they shoot themselves in the foot making an "F-100" as the electric model - does it look like "oh they couldn't make something as capable as the F-150 in electric form, so they did something less?"

Edited by rmc523
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56 minutes ago, akirby said:

The only thing that makes sense to me is if they’re going to make it super-light which will of course affect payload and towing ability.  Maybe it will be a quarter-ton F100E?

Maybe take a look at the Rivian pickup.  It weighs about 5,900 pounds and has a payload of about 1,750 pounds.  I suspect any electric F-series to be about the same.

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What I like to see is Ford responding to all competitive threats. Like it or not, electrification is coming.

In the meantime I also liked this statement:

“We plan to continue to serve these loyal customers with our upcoming next generation of 150,” he said. “We recently market-tested this new truck against the new competition — Ram and Silverado and GM products — and we won hands down. It’s a highly profitable and iconic vehicle for us and it’s going to get even better.”

This is the most important situation in the near term. 

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18 minutes ago, tbone said:

What I like to see is Ford responding to all competitive threats. Like it or not, electrification is coming.

In the meantime I also liked this statement:

“We plan to continue to serve these loyal customers with our upcoming next generation of 150,” he said. “We recently market-tested this new truck against the new competition — Ram and Silverado and GM products — and we won hands down. It’s a highly profitable and iconic vehicle for us and it’s going to get even better.”

This is the most important situation in the near term. 

I mean, that's not surprising, but it'll be interesting to see what it looks like!

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Throughout the 400 mile range on a  tank of gas  in my Edge, I still have 280 bhp (which, nominally, performs better when I've lightened the load by 16 gallons (6.3 lbs x 16 = 100.8 pounds)).   However, with an EV, particularly a pickup used to haul or tow things, wouldn't its abilities diminish in lockstep with its state of charge? Thus, hypothetically, the EV F150 might be able to pull the 18 foot boat up a mild grade while at 80% charged, but not at 30% charged.  When the EV is used as a toy to prove you're "woke," some minor degradation of performance at 20% charge is no big deal.  But, when it's a truck used for a job, I'm not so sure "toy" status is sufficient. 

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