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Lincoln winning the battle against Cadillac


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2 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I'm not as connected as he seems to be but I haven't heard anything about one either 

I mean let's be real here. Unless they want to kill Lincoln or watch it die, they at least need to have a full cutting edge electric in the next few years. PHEV is great for the next 5 years (maybe longer) but the writing the writing is on the wall for ICE engines.

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Assume that VW discussions started at least 12 months and that we're only being told what the partners want us to know for now.

That seems to be the way Jim Hackett rolls....but would he actually use it as levereage over UAW negotiations? I really don't know / think so....

Would it be a way for Hackett to achieve real change to Ford's business without massive capital expenditure on infrastructure? you bet.

Edited by jpd80
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33 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

I mean let's be real here. Unless they want to kill Lincoln or watch it die, they at least need to have a full cutting edge electric in the next few years. PHEV is great for the next 5 years (maybe longer) but the writing the writing is on the wall for ICE engines.

It's been heard from insiders that the very first sign of trouble Lincoln is on the block so that tells me they’re only like 1/2 serious about Lincoln. 

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I think Aviator is the Canary in the mineshaft.  If they're able to make money on it they'll keep going.  If not they might pull the plug.   And they don't need big volume to do it - they just need a reasonable number of buyers willing to pay full price or close to it.

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On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 8:58 AM, Harley Lover said:

This makes Cadillac that much more of a Chinese brand. The Chinese market is driving this decision, make no mistake about it. Cadillac must protect its position there, and the future is BEV's in China.

Even their new emblem on the front of the BEV looks like Chinese characters!

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18 minutes ago, akirby said:

I think Aviator is the Canary in the mineshaft.  If they're able to make money on it they'll keep going.  If not they might pull the plug.   And they don't need big volume to do it - they just need a reasonable number of buyers willing to pay full price or close to it.

It's a double edge sword. I don't care how many  'itanium/Vignale badges they put on it, Ford isn't a Luxury car. Unless they are fine just being as nice as Buick and that's it. Ford Trucks can get away with over the top packages/prices and do well. I don't think that will translate the same with SUV/CUV's. There are too many true luxury brands that are close in that price range.

I honestly think Ford has the right formula for Lincoln now (2-3 years) but leaving them without a BEV is a sure death sentence.

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58 minutes ago, akirby said:

I think Aviator is the Canary in the mineshaft.  If they're able to make money on it they'll keep going.  If not they might pull the plug.   And they don't need big volume to do it - they just need a reasonable number of buyers willing to pay full price or close to it.

watch the Aviator be their top seller......beautiful mini Navigator in my books, and has more Cache than the Nautilus

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21 minutes ago, akirby said:

They need hybrids and PHEVs but I don't agree they must have a BEV.   I still don't see BEVs being mainstream for another 5-10 years.

 

As for Ford selling expensive vehicles, let me remind you the GT retails for $450K.

I don't know, I think hybrids and PHEV's are fast becoming a dead end.  I see so many Teslas, Bolts and Leafs these days.  Besides, 5-10 years from now is being planed presently.  

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26 minutes ago, akirby said:

They need hybrids and PHEVs but I don't agree they must have a BEV.   I still don't see BEVs being mainstream for another 5-10 years.

 

As for Ford selling expensive vehicles, let me remind you the GT retails for $450K.

I don't think it's necessarily fair to use the GT as an example. That's a special case. 

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2 minutes ago, 7Mary3 said:

I don't know, I think hybrids and PHEV's are fast becoming a dead end.  I see so many Teslas, Bolts and Leafs these days.  Besides, 5-10 years from now is being planed presently.  

Tesla has competition coming but Im seeing more and more 3's ( good looking car ) , chevy just DIS-continued the Volt due to sales numbers, Leaf soldiers on, but not sure Id consider it a huge success...and one thing hybrids and PHEVs have in common, is ZERO range anxiety with significant mileage improvements....

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There is definite Cadillac style; attractive if you think it is.  Cadillac  definitely has high performance available; cool if you think it is.  But, I was always suspicious of GM's effort to  turn Cadillac into BMW/Audi/Mercedes.  I think they overestimated the American people.  People only said they wanted a  high performance sedan as justification to purchase a slightly nicer Bimmer or Merc than their neighbor had, because, seriously, they were never really going to take it to the track anyway.   Has anyone honestly ever seen a Cadillac "tracked" on a road course?  Worse, I am reluctantly consigning myself to the unavoidable truth that sedans (even really fast Cadillac sedans) don't sell and the future looks like a box on stilts.  

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47 minutes ago, akirby said:

They need hybrids and PHEVs but I don't agree they must have a BEV.   I still don't see BEVs being mainstream for another 5-10 years.

 

As for Ford selling expensive vehicles, let me remind you the GT retails for $450K.

I think the majority of the lineup is fine/great as hybrid/PHEV.  But I think as a luxury brand, they need at least one BEV right now to show that they're "with the times" so to speak/up there technologically with the rest of the luxury field.  A lot of the luxury brands thing is "keeping up with the Joneses".  They've worked hard to shed the old, tarted up Ford image; a modern BEV model with some dramatic styling will help continue pushing the reinvented Lincoln image.  I have an idea in my head for a design.....I'll see if I can sketch something.

24 minutes ago, Deanh said:

watch the Aviator be their top seller......beautiful mini Navigator in my books, and has more Cache than the Nautilus

I'm cautiously optimistic it may be.  The only question there will be price.

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14 minutes ago, Fgts said:

So Cadillacs 3 sedans (CT4,5,6) and 4 Utes (XT4,5,6 Escl) vs Lincoln's 4 Utes only ( Corsair, Nautilus, Aviator, Nav) and Caddy is in trouble?.

maybe the lack of sedans sales is hurting them and requiring large subsidies to move product....thus less profitability.

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