rmc523 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 13 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said: Wait...I get what you are inferring but is there evidence of this? A simple yes or no will do. Borg says there's no talk of a Lincoln EV in the works, so I'm going of his info. It could be wrong, I don't know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 minute ago, rmc523 said: Borg says there's no talk of a Lincoln EV in the works, so I'm going of his info. It could be wrong, I don't know? I'm not as connected as he seems to be but I haven't heard anything about one either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I'm not as connected as he seems to be but I haven't heard anything about one either I mean let's be real here. Unless they want to kill Lincoln or watch it die, they at least need to have a full cutting edge electric in the next few years. PHEV is great for the next 5 years (maybe longer) but the writing the writing is on the wall for ICE engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) Assume that VW discussions started at least 12 months and that we're only being told what the partners want us to know for now. That seems to be the way Jim Hackett rolls....but would he actually use it as levereage over UAW negotiations? I really don't know / think so.... Would it be a way for Hackett to achieve real change to Ford's business without massive capital expenditure on infrastructure? you bet. Edited January 15, 2019 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 13 minutes ago, rmc523 said: Borg says there's no talk of a Lincoln EV in the works, so I'm going of his info. Borg is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 That's not what I said. I have found no evidence of one yet, and I know the Mach E team isn't working with Lincoln. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 33 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said: I mean let's be real here. Unless they want to kill Lincoln or watch it die, they at least need to have a full cutting edge electric in the next few years. PHEV is great for the next 5 years (maybe longer) but the writing the writing is on the wall for ICE engines. It's been heard from insiders that the very first sign of trouble Lincoln is on the block so that tells me they’re only like 1/2 serious about Lincoln. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I think Aviator is the Canary in the mineshaft. If they're able to make money on it they'll keep going. If not they might pull the plug. And they don't need big volume to do it - they just need a reasonable number of buyers willing to pay full price or close to it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailhiker Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 On 1/14/2019 at 8:58 AM, Harley Lover said: This makes Cadillac that much more of a Chinese brand. The Chinese market is driving this decision, make no mistake about it. Cadillac must protect its position there, and the future is BEV's in China. Even their new emblem on the front of the BEV looks like Chinese characters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 18 minutes ago, akirby said: I think Aviator is the Canary in the mineshaft. If they're able to make money on it they'll keep going. If not they might pull the plug. And they don't need big volume to do it - they just need a reasonable number of buyers willing to pay full price or close to it. It's a double edge sword. I don't care how many 'itanium/Vignale badges they put on it, Ford isn't a Luxury car. Unless they are fine just being as nice as Buick and that's it. Ford Trucks can get away with over the top packages/prices and do well. I don't think that will translate the same with SUV/CUV's. There are too many true luxury brands that are close in that price range. I honestly think Ford has the right formula for Lincoln now (2-3 years) but leaving them without a BEV is a sure death sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 They need hybrids and PHEVs but I don't agree they must have a BEV. I still don't see BEVs being mainstream for another 5-10 years. As for Ford selling expensive vehicles, let me remind you the GT retails for $450K. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 58 minutes ago, akirby said: I think Aviator is the Canary in the mineshaft. If they're able to make money on it they'll keep going. If not they might pull the plug. And they don't need big volume to do it - they just need a reasonable number of buyers willing to pay full price or close to it. watch the Aviator be their top seller......beautiful mini Navigator in my books, and has more Cache than the Nautilus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 21 minutes ago, akirby said: They need hybrids and PHEVs but I don't agree they must have a BEV. I still don't see BEVs being mainstream for another 5-10 years. As for Ford selling expensive vehicles, let me remind you the GT retails for $450K. I don't know, I think hybrids and PHEV's are fast becoming a dead end. I see so many Teslas, Bolts and Leafs these days. Besides, 5-10 years from now is being planed presently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 26 minutes ago, akirby said: They need hybrids and PHEVs but I don't agree they must have a BEV. I still don't see BEVs being mainstream for another 5-10 years. As for Ford selling expensive vehicles, let me remind you the GT retails for $450K. I don't think it's necessarily fair to use the GT as an example. That's a special case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 If Ford was still concerned about Lincoln, they would not be building it a dedicated plant in China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, 7Mary3 said: I don't know, I think hybrids and PHEV's are fast becoming a dead end. I see so many Teslas, Bolts and Leafs these days. Besides, 5-10 years from now is being planed presently. Tesla has competition coming but Im seeing more and more 3's ( good looking car ) , chevy just DIS-continued the Volt due to sales numbers, Leaf soldiers on, but not sure Id consider it a huge success...and one thing hybrids and PHEVs have in common, is ZERO range anxiety with significant mileage improvements.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 minute ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I don't think it's necessarily fair to use the GT as an example. That's a special case. 100k Superduties, 80k Expeditions, 100k Navigators, 80k F150s...list could go on for vehicles out of my reach.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Last year CAP production was about 380K, imagine what will happen if Explorer and Aviator are both hits along with PIU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomerSooner Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 There is definite Cadillac style; attractive if you think it is. Cadillac definitely has high performance available; cool if you think it is. But, I was always suspicious of GM's effort to turn Cadillac into BMW/Audi/Mercedes. I think they overestimated the American people. People only said they wanted a high performance sedan as justification to purchase a slightly nicer Bimmer or Merc than their neighbor had, because, seriously, they were never really going to take it to the track anyway. Has anyone honestly ever seen a Cadillac "tracked" on a road course? Worse, I am reluctantly consigning myself to the unavoidable truth that sedans (even really fast Cadillac sedans) don't sell and the future looks like a box on stilts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 47 minutes ago, akirby said: They need hybrids and PHEVs but I don't agree they must have a BEV. I still don't see BEVs being mainstream for another 5-10 years. As for Ford selling expensive vehicles, let me remind you the GT retails for $450K. I think the majority of the lineup is fine/great as hybrid/PHEV. But I think as a luxury brand, they need at least one BEV right now to show that they're "with the times" so to speak/up there technologically with the rest of the luxury field. A lot of the luxury brands thing is "keeping up with the Joneses". They've worked hard to shed the old, tarted up Ford image; a modern BEV model with some dramatic styling will help continue pushing the reinvented Lincoln image. I have an idea in my head for a design.....I'll see if I can sketch something. 24 minutes ago, Deanh said: watch the Aviator be their top seller......beautiful mini Navigator in my books, and has more Cache than the Nautilus I'm cautiously optimistic it may be. The only question there will be price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 So Cadillacs 3 sedans (CT4,5,6) and 4 Utes (XT4,5,6 Escl) vs Lincoln's 4 Utes only ( Corsair, Nautilus, Aviator, Nav) and Caddy is in trouble?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 14 minutes ago, Fgts said: So Cadillacs 3 sedans (CT4,5,6) and 4 Utes (XT4,5,6 Escl) vs Lincoln's 4 Utes only ( Corsair, Nautilus, Aviator, Nav) and Caddy is in trouble?. maybe the lack of sedans sales is hurting them and requiring large subsidies to move product....thus less profitability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 43 minutes ago, Deanh said: 100k Superduties, 80k Expeditions, 100k Navigators, 80k F150s...list could go on for vehicles out of my reach.... Those are much better examples than the GT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 29 minutes ago, Fgts said: So Cadillacs 3 sedans (CT4,5,6) and 4 Utes (XT4,5,6 Escl) vs Lincoln's 4 Utes only ( Corsair, Nautilus, Aviator, Nav) and Caddy is in trouble?. You mean the 3 sedans that they are most likely turning into 1 after investing a few billion in them? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 And Caddy isn't dropping the CT6. Good news, it's a fabulous car. They will have 2 when it's all over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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