coupe3w Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 42 minutes ago, Sevensecondsuv said: To an extent, you're right. A lack of displacement can be offset by boost, better flowing heads, or even nitrous (which we'll obviously never see on a factory anything). We see evidence of this in the factory ratings and 1/4 mile times. But the point stands that the coyote has a lower threshold for max hp before you have to throw crazy money at them than the LSx or Hemi motors do. A major contributor to that fact is the displacement disadvantage. In the end, Ford should be stomping all over their rivals given dohc and 4 valve heads. Instead they settle for something between even and just incrementally better. This new GT500 is what I'd call incrementally better than the ZL1 and Hellcat. I was just hoping for Ford to absolutely throw down the gauntlet with 900+ hp. A new 7.0L dohc aluminum engine sporting a 4+ litre blower would have made those numbers without breaking a sweat and would have been one heck of a statement. Ford doesn't care about performance like in the '70s. They only care about selling trucks and suv / cuv it's what's hot right now. They are making lots of profits with them. Without those vehicles we wouldn't even have a Mustang never mind a Shelby GT500. Heck we're lucky they kept the Mustang going this long. Count your blessings, it's not all about HP it's about sales and 8% ROI. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 26 minutes ago, Sevensecondsuv said: True, but then again this is the GT500. One could ask the same question of the vehicle as a whole. Being the top dog in the lineup is the place to make such statements. Top dog doesn't just mean having the most HP or the largest displacement. Ask the 2003 Camaro... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSchicago Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Fun fact via Mike Levine on twitter: The tires weigh more than the wheels They do on my Mustang GT (PP2 style) too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, LSchicago said: They do on my Mustang GT (PP2 style) too. That color is sexy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) One last gasp for ICE. The next Mustang is going to add Hybrid torque to the V8 Horsepower. Edited January 15, 2019 by Assimilator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 2 hours ago, coupe3w said: Ford doesn't care about performance like in the '70s. They only care about selling trucks and suv / cuv it's what's hot right now. They are making lots of profits with them. Without those vehicles we wouldn't even have a Mustang never mind a Shelby GT500. Heck we're lucky they kept the Mustang going this long. Count your blessings, it's not all about HP it's about sales and 8% ROI. Ford builds the hottest factory mustang ever by a wide margin with 700+ hp and you people bitch and complain about it and say Ford doesn’t care about performance. Ridiculous. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucelinc Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I am not sure that I can think of a time in history when Ford was more competitive in terms of performance. Certainly the so called "total performance" days of the 60s saw Ford winning races but it didn't really carry over to the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, akirby said: Ford builds the hottest factory mustang ever by a wide margin with 700+ hp and you people bitch and complain about it and say Ford doesn’t care about performance. Ridiculous. You obviously took that the wrong way. Performance today is not like it was in the 70's. I was trying to say it's much better now. Everyone has an opinion. Why is everything I say ridiculous or stupid to you? Maybe you just don't like other peoples opinions, but there are always differences in opinions. Edited January 15, 2019 by coupe3w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 45 minutes ago, coupe3w said: You obviously took that the wrong way. Performance today is not like it was in the 70's. I was trying to say it's much better now. Everyone has an opinion. Why is everything I say ridiculous or stupid to you? Maybe you just don't like other peoples opinions, but there are always differences in opinions. That wasn’t directed only at you. But you said Ford doesn’t care about performance all they care about are trucks and utilities and profits and that is definitely not true. Bruce obviously interpreted it the same way so it’s not just me. Maybe you left out a sentence because what you said didn’t sound at all positive. Everyone has an opinion and nobody can argue with an opinion such as I like it or I don’t like it. But if your opinion is contradicted by facts then you’ll get called out on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 8 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Fun fact via Mike Levine on twitter: The tires weigh more than the wheels That was true of the wheels and tires on my '06 LS, too (after I installed a set of wheels from an '04 LSE). I once had the opportunity to pick up one of the wheels sans tire, and it was unbelievably light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) Sorry guys I just love looking at these shots...... Edited January 15, 2019 by jpd80 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) Ford performance is definitely a Fields relic, although Ford has always been a performance oriented company with varying degrees of commitment through the years. This is without a doubt their golden age and I hope it sticks. I think they see it as a big profitable up-sell that increases margins like a luxury marque. As long as they stay consistent, it also becomes part of their brand identity. So when people think about German performance exotics, they really should remember how exceptional Ford is compared to the mainstream. And amazingly they are surviving the SUV, Truck, and Electrification transition while growing their performance focus. Either way I think more and more people respect Ford for it's performance DNA in everything it does...as well they should since everything is informed by it. Edited January 15, 2019 by Assimilator 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 5 hours ago, Assimilator said: Ford performance is definitely a Fields relic, although Ford has always been a performance oriented company with varying degrees of commitment through the years. This is without a doubt their golden age and I hope it sticks. I think they see it as a big profitable up-sell that increases margins like a luxury marque. As long as they stay consistent, it also becomes part of their brand identity. So when people think about German performance exotics, they really should remember how exceptional Ford is compared to the mainstream. And amazingly they are surviving the SUV, Truck, and Electrification transition while growing their performance focus. Either way I think more and more people respect Ford for it's performance DNA in everything it does...as well they should since everything is informed by it. This. You can see it with the ST models debuting alongside the regular models not a year or two later. And it’s definitely because of higher margins. What does Toyota and GM have to compete with Escape, Edge and Explorer ST? Not to mention Aviator GT. You can disagree with how they’re doing it or to what extent they’re doing it but you can’t honestly say they don’t care about performance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 10 hours ago, coupe3w said: You obviously took that the wrong way. Performance today is not like it was in the 70's. I was trying to say it's much better now. Everyone has an opinion. Why is everything I say ridiculous or stupid to you? Maybe you just don't like other peoples opinions, but there are always differences in opinions. After reflection I think I understand what you’re saying based on your earlier comments about the GT. You (and others) seem to think that performance means putting the biggest engine in the Ford GT so it doesn’t get beat by the Vette in a magazine test. Or that the GT500 must have more HP than the hellcat Redeye. It’s all about stats and lap times and winning on Sunday. But that’s not how Ford approaches performance. The Ford GT was built specifically for LeMans and to compete with Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. and it succeeds at both. Lap times in a magazine test are irrellevant. Mustang GT350 and GT500 are comfortable sophisticated street machines not all out track monsters that jar your fillings loose. Again they don’t care about paper stats or lap times they care about building the best all around performer. If it happens to be faster or have better stats that’s a bonus but they’re not going to compromise the other things to achieve that. I’d be willing to bet Ford didn’t even benchmark Camaros and Hellcats during GT500 development - I bet they benchmarked Porsches. And again if you guys like big block v8s and manual trannies that’s fine. Just don’t claim that Ford is making a mistake not using them here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 16 hours ago, fordmantpw said: Oh for crying out freaking loud! Who gives a $hit about displacement! 14 hours ago, fordmantpw said: Top dog doesn't just mean having the most HP or the largest displacement. Ask the 2003 Camaro... 1 hour ago, akirby said: After reflection I think I understand what you’re saying based on your earlier comments about the GT. You (and others) seem to think that performance means putting the biggest engine in the Ford GT so it doesn’t get beat by the Vette in a magazine test. Or that the GT500 must have more HP than the hellcat Redeye. It’s all about stats and lap times and winning on Sunday. But that’s not how Ford approaches performance. The Ford GT was built specifically for LeMans and to compete with Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. and it succeeds at both. Lap times in a magazine test are irrellevant. Mustang GT350 and GT500 are comfortable sophisticated street machines not all out track monsters that jar your fillings loose. Again they don’t care about paper stats or lap times they care about building the best all around performer. If it happens to be faster or have better stats that’s a bonus but they’re not going to compromise the other things to achieve that. I’d be willing to bet Ford didn’t even benchmark Camaros and Hellcats during GT500 development - I bet they benchmarked Porsches. And again if you guys like big block v8s and manual trannies that’s fine. Just don’t claim that Ford is making a mistake not using them here. Exactly what I was trying to say with my previous 2 posts. Ford's idea of performance is a more rounded approach. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 The biggest gripe is what it always is with any Ford performance related product. They are painfully slowly releasing the specs, which creates a lot of guessing and speculation. That generally turns negative pretty fast as rumors spread that may or may not be true. Add to it, it should have been released in 2018 which infuriated people even more. Then add internet trolls (think GM and Chrysler) fanning the flames and this is what you get, a lot of pissing and moaning. Now the GT500 has become a year or so late with only 700hp, dct (no manual), weighs 4500lbs, cost close to 100k plus ADM, cant match the ZL1 around track, can’t beat Redeye at strip and will surely have engine and build quality problems. Did I miss anything? LOL I don’t believe that but Ford certainly has a bad habit of doing this. It’s possible that it could be a stinker but doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 minute ago, jcartwright99 said: it should have been released in 2018 I agree but there's a reason they didn't. They had to work very hard to fix a bad overheating problem, and the team working on it only very recently solved it. Most of the body work (including the trick aerodynamic hood latch ) was done 2 years ago. It's not like they were dragging their feet just because they could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucelinc Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Hmmm......If someone wants to buy me the car, I will take it but I will need to whack off that wing and rip off the white stripes along the rocker panel. I love the mechanical aspects of it, the interior and even the front end (to a degree) but that wing and side stripes are a bit much for my delicate tastes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucelinc Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 From C & D Ford says the GT500 will do zero to 60 in the mid-three-second range, which we think might be a bit conservative (an automatic ZL1 will do a 3.4). The company further claims a quarter-mile run of less than 11 seconds, a good half-second quicker than the ZL1. In both performance parameters, the GT500 should trounce the Hellcat. Yes, even the 797-hp Hellcat Redeye Widebody. Advantage: Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 minute ago, brucelinc said: From C & D Ford says the GT500 will do zero to 60 in the mid-three-second range, which we think might be a bit conservative (an automatic ZL1 will do a 3.4). The company further claims a quarter-mile run of less than 11 seconds, a good half-second quicker than the ZL1. In both performance parameters, the GT500 should trounce the Hellcat. Yes, even the 797-hp Hellcat Redeye Widebody. Advantage: Ford. Butbut but muh hoarspowers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itguy09 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 57 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Butbut but muh hoarspowers! When you're FAT like the Mopars you need more power. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) The FCA cars are like the Escalades of muscle cars, lots of cake decorating with big superficial specs that prove you can fool people out of their money on style points alone. But hey, I don't want to crap on what other people find joy in, but I thank God Mustang isn't like that....anymore. Edited January 15, 2019 by Assimilator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 That was kinda my point - who is going to cross shop the GT500 and the Challenger Hellcat Redeye and say I’m buying the Challenger because it has a few more hp? They are vastly different cars. some will prefer the Dodge because it’s a Dodge or because it’s cheaper or just because and vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I was more referring to the idea that it won't beat a ZL1 1LE around the track or beat a Demon (mixed it up with the Redeye) at the strip. I am not saying I agree with any of it but the internet trolling would make you think it's DOA. In all seriousness, any one have any estimates on what it weighs? Again, hearing rumors that it weighs more than 4200lbs but I don't buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Or you could just buy this for your straight line performance.........Not a bad deal really. https://hellhorseperformance.com/pages/hellhorse-performance-mustang-packages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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