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Assimilator

Volkswagen, Ford set alliance centered on vans, pickups

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The truth is probably much simpler,  that the original 6AT JV gearbox was through developed to 9 and 9-speed version and that with slight changes, the 8-speed version will fit inside the 6-speed casing, saving Ford a bunch on spending upgrading it's FWD/AWD gearboxes all the way to 9-speed auto which was probably harder to justify over the easy to do 8-speed...

So why they couldn't have done that years ago is beyond comprehension, maybe just riding the 6AT into the ground...

 

In hindsight, I shoulda just said Ford saving money by doing less....

Edited by jpd80

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Well say goodbye to Ford Motor Company my friends!  Well they had a good run....formed in 1903?  Gone by 2023!!

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On 1/11/2019 at 12:16 PM, mackinaw said:

You realize that was 24 years ago.

So ?  That just means that anyone involved has been retired for some time now !

Look at some of the purchases Big Jim Hackett has done lately.  Do they remind you of Jacques Nasser ?

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4 minutes ago, theoldwizard said:

So ?  That just means that anyone involved has been retired for some time now !

Look at some of the purchases Big Jim Hackett has done lately.  Do they remind you of Jacques Nasser ?

You mean Jac the Knife??

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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autoshow-detroit-ford-volkswagen/volkswagen-ford-set-alliance-centered-on-vans-pickups-idUSKCN1P90E7

Quote

Ford and VW announced their partnership against the backdrop of the Detroit auto show. The partnership, which starts with sales of vans and medium-sized pickups in 2022, will not involve a merger or equity stakes, the companies said.

Volkswagen and Ford said they also are exploring potential collaboration on electric vehicles, autonomous vehicles and mobility services.

The two automakers explored closer cooperation as trade frictions force carmakers to rethink where they build vehicles for Europe, the United States and China.

 

So VW gets the next gen Ranger and Transit-so what does Ford get, outside of future collaboration on Automotive 2.0?

 

Edited by silvrsvt

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Not much of an alliance, based on the press release. This is no different than Mazda selling rebadged  Rangers, GM selling rebadged city vans or Mercedes selling rebadged Nissan pickups.

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Well, it appears that Ford Transit Custom (midsize front wheel driven) and VW Transporter (midsize front wheel driven) will merge onto an updated Ford design moving forward. Neither of those vehicles are sold in the USA or Canada, but are available in Mexico, China and ROW markets. Similarly, the VW Kombi and Ford Transit Connect will merge onto a developing VW small chassis....Transit Connect IS sold in the USA while the Kombi is not.....as for Ranger and Aramok...sounds like we have just discovered what the "third unnamed model" to be built at Michigan Assembly will be. 

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4 minutes ago, twintornados said:

Well, it appears that Ford Transit Custom (midsize front wheel driven) and VW Transporter (midsize front wheel driven) will merge onto an updated Ford design moving forward. Neither of those vehicles are sold in the USA or Canada, but are available in Mexico, China and ROW markets. Similarly, the VW Kombi and Ford Transit Connect will merge onto a developing VW small chassis....Transit Connect IS sold in the USA while the Kombi is not.....as for Ranger and Aramok...sounds like we have just discovered what the "third unnamed model" to be built at Michigan Assembly will be. 

I'm losing track of what's news and what's rumor here. 

But here is the official word.

https://www.at.ford.com/en/homepage/news-and-clipsheet/news/2019/1/fordvwalliance.html

Edited by Assimilator

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7 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

This quote from your link is where I surmised my thought process going forward....I have previously read it from my TD Ameritrade account. 
 

Quote

Through the alliance, Ford will engineer and build medium-sized pickups for both companies which are expected to go to market as early as 2022. For both parties, Ford intends to engineer and build larger commercial vans for European customers, and Volkswagen intends to develop and build a city van.

 

Edited by twintornados

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The meat of the matter still seems to benefit VW more than Ford.  Ford already dominates all of these segments and they are selling that to VW.  I'm not sure if it really is about improving development costs or if it's just a trade for something else they want more.

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8 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

The meat of the matter still seems to benefit VW more than Ford.  Ford already dominates all of these segments and they are selling that to VW.  I'm not sure if it really is about improving development costs or if it's just a trade for something else they want more.

Ford is engineering and building mid sized pickups and large commercial vans for both Ford and VW.  They aren’t selling anything to VW.

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I don't mean literally selling it to VW, but they are sharing their greatest strength with a competitor.

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27 minutes ago, twintornados said:

Well, it appears that Ford Transit Custom (midsize front wheel driven) and VW Transporter (midsize front wheel driven) will merge onto an updated Ford design moving forward. Neither of those vehicles are sold in the USA or Canada, but are available in Mexico, China and ROW markets. Similarly, the VW Kombi and Ford Transit Connect will merge onto a developing VW small chassis....Transit Connect IS sold in the USA while the Kombi is not.....as for Ranger and Aramok...sounds like we have just discovered what the "third unnamed model" to be built at Michigan Assembly will be. 

A "city" van could be electric, which would make sense if VW is taking the lead on it. Maybe we'll see a Ford version of this to replace the TC.

f2d71c3e-e2a2-4ebf-989d-49dd81959a9d.jpe

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3 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

I don't mean literally selling it to VW, but they are sharing their greatest strength with a competitor.

The way I'm assuming this is happening is that VW saves $$$ on not developing a midsized truck and vans and Ford saves $$$ on not developing a small van. Both get more profit because there are more vehicles being sold by each maker. 
I'm sure there is legal framework in this agreement that they can't backout of the agreement early to come out with their own product to compete against what is currently on the market-which would defeat the money saving aspect of this.

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The other thing-should be interesting how this plays out with the Transit Connect-I was under the impression it was going to Flat Rock so it could be turned into an Automotus vehicle in the next 3 years or so. 

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3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

More info 

https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/ford-vw-advance-alliance-plans-vans-pickups

VW will be working on a city van for both companies-I’m assuming it’s a replacement for the Transit Connect or what was the fiesta based van? 

I read the Caddy, which is roughly the same size as Connect.

---

From what I gather, these are for sure

Ford "gives":

-Ranger platform for Amarok

-Transit Custom, Transit platform/production for VW

Ford gets:

Transit Connect replacement - will it be electric maybe?

 

Other potentials:

Ford gives VW access to autonomous system

VW gives Ford access to MEB/electric platform?

Am I understanding that correctly?

This was in the article:

In addition, Volkswagen and Ford have signed a memorandum of understanding to investigate collaboration on autonomous vehicles, mobility

services, and electric vehicles and have started to explorer opportunities

They also mention:

The alliance will enable the companies to share development costs, leverage their respective manufacturing capacity, boost the capability and competitiveness of their vehicles, and deliver cost efficiencies, while maintaining distinct brand characteristics.

I wonder if the vans will have unique bodies then, unlike the Mercedes/Dodge/Freightliner tie up years ago?

Edited by rmc523

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VW also announced that its building an electric vehicle plant in the US for itself and possibly other auto companies.

thread in competition section

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6 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

More info 

https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/ford-vw-advance-alliance-plans-vans-pickups

VW will be working on a city van for both companies-I’m assuming it’s a replacement for the Transit Connect or what was the fiesta based van? 

I'm guessing it is Transit Courier not Transit Connect.

Transit Courier is kind of orphaned now B-Max is discontinued. I think VW is designing a new sub compact / B-segment van anyway to slot in below VW Caddy since it is the only major van seller in Europe without one. So Ford is going to step out of the way on Transit Courier replacement and let VW do that.

VW's compact van (Caddy) is really old... it is using the PQ35 platform that dates back to early 2000s Mk5 era Golf (the current Golf model is Mk7 and Mk8 is right around the corner). So I'm sure they will be happy to let Ford Transit Connect take over. We also know per previous reports and speculation that next Transit Connect is supposedly going to be the basis of Ford's autonomous driving platform.

Next up is VW Transporter, which was curiously not updated to the latest MQB platform. It appears that VW will use the plant that builds Transporter to build the ID electric car and vans. So again, makes perfect sense to let Ford design and build the replacement. 2022 timing is also about right for the next Transit Custom.

The fullsize van is a bit of a question mark. VW Crafter is brand new just released last year so it has a few more years left before it will join Transit. And since we know Ford's Transit Custom + Transit strategy, it seems unlikely that Ford will use any VW platform here.

Amarok is done and we know new Ranger is coming. On the truck side of things, one thing remains unclear... Ford and VW are both working on compact pickup truck (the supposed Courier truck and VW Tarok). One of them surely has to go away now to make room for this global alliance?

I think this is what the collaboration will look like in a few years.

B / subcompact van: Transit Courier <== New VW city van
C / compact van: Transit Connect ==> VW Caddy
Midsize van: Transit Custom ==> VW Transporter
Fullsize van: Transit ==> VW Crafter

B / subcompact truck: ??? <== Saveiro
C / compact truck: Courier >==< Tarok (not sure yet which way the rebadge will go on this one)
Midsize truck: Ranger ==> Amarok

Fullsize truck: F-series ==> n/a I doubt Ford will ever let anyone in on the crown jewel

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The press release says "City van".

I personally see that as something smaller than the Transit Courier since it is subcompact.

The T Courier is the best selling vehicle in its segment and its built in low cost Turkey. If Ford and VW wanted to team up for it, it would be Ford that would take the lead.

 

And the next gen Transit Connect is suppose to go into Hermosillo. 

Edited by ausrutherford

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The benefit here, for Ford, will be amortization of development costs. How large that benefit is will have to be seen. 

It's not new for VW to use other makers for their vans - the previous gen Crafter vans were built by Mercedes Benz. 

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The T6 team will be very excited with this good news, maybe they knew months ago..

I hope the alliance works well for both sides, automotive is not a zero som game.

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