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Fords All New Vehicles To Receive 5G by '22

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Sounds great-but what about the security side of things? With all that information that can be generated, once the infrastructure is fully in place-you'll never be able to just travel some place without being tracked in someway. Even if its "anonymous" it won't take much to trianglate it with your data. 

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53 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Sounds great-but what about the security side of things? With all that information that can be generated, once the infrastructure is fully in place-you'll never be able to just travel some place without being tracked in someway. Even if its "anonymous" it won't take much to trianglate it with your data. 

 

No different than your cell phone today.

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42 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

No different than your cell phone today.

Actually it is worse then just having your cell phone-you can turn off location based services and I'm going to assume 5G is going to allow for pinpoint location of your car at all times-will it allow for an optout? If you optout, can you operate your vehicle on the road then (Think not having auto insurance for your vehicle)? I get older vehicles won't have it, but will their be a federal requirement like 3rd brake lights for it?

This is going to generate alot more data then a cell phone connect will-you'll more or less have big brother looking over your sholder at all times in the worse case senario. Its great for vehicles that are self driving, but I see it nothing more then a nanny monitor on your driving habits for insurance companies and the police. 

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From what I've been reading, this may be the technology that kills cable internet and TV. If you have your phone, home, and car under one plan that makes sense. Speeds are going to be ridiculous for mobile. The big thing will be coverage area and if they limit the amount of data for home use to something too small of an amount (and then start charging overage). I could see this in a few years being a huge hit in densely populated areas with good cell coverage.

 

Edited by jcartwright99

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8 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Actually it is worse then just having your cell phone-you can turn off location based services and I'm going to assume 5G is going to allow for pinpoint location of your car at all times-will it allow for an optout? If you optout, can you operate your vehicle on the road then (Think not having auto insurance for your vehicle)? I get older vehicles won't have it, but will their be a federal requirement like 3rd brake lights for it?

This is going to generate alot more data then a cell phone connect will-you'll more or less have big brother looking over your sholder at all times in the worse case senario. Its great for vehicles that are self driving, but I see it nothing more then a nanny monitor on your driving habits for insurance companies and the police. 

FordPass already gives location data for your car.

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4 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

From what I've been reading, this may be the technology that kills cable internet and TV. If you have your phone, home, and car under one plan that makes sense. Speeds are going to be ridiculous for mobile. The big thing will be coverage area and if they limit the amount of data for home use to something too small of an amount (and then start charging overage). I could see this in a few years being a huge hit in densely populated areas with good cell coverage.

 

The prime problem I see is all the extra equipment required for wireless speeds-there are going to be alot more smaller repeaters etc that are going to be required to keep the speed and bandwidth up to par. 

This isn't going to be something that was like going from 3g to 4g-its going to require a fairly extenstive upgrade of infrastruce for to work as adveristed. 

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1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

Actually it is worse then just having your cell phone-you can turn off location based services and I'm going to assume 5G is going to allow for pinpoint location of your car at all times-will it allow for an optout? 

You can turn off location services access for apps on your phone, but your carrier knows where your phone is whenever it's connected to the cellular network. 

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(Open this in an incognito window -- right click and select -- if you get a pop-up asking you to sign-in or subscribe.)

2019 is the year that the big providers like AT&T and Verizon start switching on parts of their 5G networks. As Silvrstv noted, the transition from 4G to 5G is not at all like the transition from 3G to 4G, which was all about increased speed. Yes, the new transition has that as well (5G can be 100x faster than 4G), but the big news is that 5G is all about connecting everything to, well, everything else. The least significant part of it is increased speed for smartphones. Be excited or be afraid. But the brave new world is coming.

https://adage.com/article/news/5g-gen-mobile/308148/?fbclid=IwAR2YxJIF92VmvViNxwB2GRkeVUWzs0uvcHuC6lmSrm4-eZc2NsCQwKNqH1U

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2 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

You can turn off location services access for apps on your phone, but your carrier knows where your phone is whenever it's connected to the cellular network. 

Right, but given what 5G can do, its possible its going to record everything that your doing in your car-I can see it now- we will have a blackbox setup for cars "in the cloud" that insurance companies will use against you for your rate increases etc.

The tech has its upsides, but not lets not discount what it might and what it will be actually used for-which is my point. 

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How would the insurance companies get that data? Would they reach an agreement with Dealers to report new car sales and vehicle tracking info to some national insurance database?  

What would happen when you sold the vehicle privately? Would the insurance companies be able to track the change of owner via DMV records?

I'm not saying I don't believe that might happen, just it would take some work getting to that point. And I definitely do not enjoy being tracked and monitored.

I would hope you can opt out and maybe even remove the tracking components from your vehicle purchases.

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2 hours ago, probowler said:

How would the insurance companies get that data? Would they reach an agreement with Dealers to report new car sales and vehicle tracking info to some national insurance database?  

What would happen when you sold the vehicle privately? Would the insurance companies be able to track the change of owner via DMV records?

I'm not saying I don't believe that might happen, just it would take some work getting to that point. And I definitely do not enjoy being tracked and monitored.

I would hope you can opt out and maybe even remove the tracking components from your vehicle purchases.

it would be simple enough to do-any network device has what is called a MAC address that is supposed to uniquely identify itself on a given network-tie that to your VIN on the car and it would be easy as pie to do.  

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1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

it would be simple enough to do-any network device has what is called a MAC address that is supposed to uniquely identify itself on a given network-tie that to your VIN on the car and it would be easy as pie to do.  

Yes, networked devices can be tracked. You didn't address any of my actual questions 🤨

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15 minutes ago, probowler said:

Yes, networked devices can be tracked. You didn't address any of my actual questions 🤨

Thats the big unknown right now. As for transferring a car to a new owner-that would be tied to the title? 

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3 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Thats the big unknown right now. As for transferring a car to a new owner-that would be tied to the title? 

Yup, but that would require government cooperation to send that new info to the insurance industry... which I feel is a privacy issue?  But they can already look up your driving record I believe, so maybe that would just be part of their existing relationship.


Are driving records private? Can anyone look up another persons driving record? Or is it just police and insurance companies who have access to that info I wonder.

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4 hours ago, probowler said:

How would the insurance companies get that data? Would they reach an agreement with Dealers to report new car sales and vehicle tracking info to some national insurance database?  

What would happen when you sold the vehicle privately? Would the insurance companies be able to track the change of owner via DMV records?

I'm not saying I don't believe that might happen, just it would take some work getting to that point. And I definitely do not enjoy being tracked and monitored.

I would hope you can opt out and maybe even remove the tracking components from your vehicle purchases.

They can already get that data today, takes a few days though though the various state databases for vehicle sales and transactions. 

 

A few years ago it would take a dealer a few days to find out a customer bought a new vehicle from a different dealer, they now know that within a few hours based on search history and social media activity from uses. Even if you clear your cookies you still leave data trails. 

 

The data that that is out there is crazy, the modems in vehicles now along with cell traffic already report back data that is then used by various companies to track shopping patterns and traffic volume in real-time.  OEMs already sells this data.

 

There are massive data centers that Tesla, GM, and Ford have currently under construction for even more insight into customers. Ford right now could tell you the average time a customer spends in a Home Depot vs a Lowe’s. Which vehicle owners are more likely to shop at a Discount store vs a Dept store. The faster they know patterns and data the faster they can taylor a service to their customers and increase revenue. Coupons for tires because your traction/stability control has come on more often that other people in the same market during a given weather event. An Email for accessories hours after you got your new vehicle from a dealer you didn’t buy your vehicle from trying to get future services and sales as you’re no longer looking for a new car. 

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Ford is also investing in AI technologies to manage this data collection and to put it to good use (specifically with regard to AV).  But a big part of this is Ford's interest in selling this data, which deserves quite a bit of scrutiny for sure.  Hackett even admitted this as part of their profits strategy moving forward.  

But this is definitely the missing ingredient needed to make AVs work, total awareness of the environment.  

Edited by Assimilator

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Any company that is collecting data and not selling it (anonymized of course) is missing a huge business opportunity.

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2 hours ago, akirby said:

Any company that is collecting data and not selling it (anonymized of course) is missing a huge business opportunity.

The real sticking point is how anonymized is it really....

 

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3 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

The real sticking point is how anonymized is it really....

 

 

This is pretty standard today.  Usually they summarize the data to show total vehicles in a certain area by time of day or other similar things.  If it’s individual data they remove any personal identifiable info like account, name, phone number, serial number, etc.

 

Sharing personal data would not only be a killer for business it opens up the company to lawsuits so they take it pretty seriously.   

A hacker is really the only serious threat.   Or a court order.

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That doesn’t mean that the service provider can’t use the data.  E.g. if you park at Home Depot you might get a pop up coupon on sync 3 for a 10% discount.

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I don't want to be the bearer of bad news here but I'll be the bearer of bad news :(  It's too late! Everything you do is tracked already. You (or really several thousand instances of you) and your data are in Hoodoop clusters right now as we speak being analyzed. Those app user agreements that you click away on your phone to use an app, give these companies to do this. Comcast does it, all mobile carriers do it. Heck, even your tire pressure sensors have an identifier to your car that you are tied to. This is the downside of a connected economy. You accept it, fight it through legislation with a .0001% chance of doing anything, or become a Luddite. Even if you use a VPN online,  your browser gives up enough information about you that they can identify you.

I don't like it but if you have ever wondered what the term big data refers to, this is it. 

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And as long as they aren't sharing my personally identifiable information, I don't care.  I could probably use that 10% off coupon anyway!

BTW, this is how FaceBook makes billions of dollars...selling data.

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Yeah... I think if I buy a new car I'm going to look for and disable the modem..

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18 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

And as long as they aren't sharing my personally identifiable information, I don't care.  I could probably use that 10% off coupon anyway!

BTW, this is how FaceBook makes billions of dollars...selling data.

They should but it doesn't always mean it happens. There are companies that piece all of this data together and they know everything about you. They do know who you are too! Especially with all the hacks of records, your phone number is tied to a name, which is tied to an address, which has an internet SP, which has all of your dns entries, so on and so fourth. Add to it that Equifax hack which was the worst hack ever but they brushed it underneath the rug like it wasn't that big but really it was everyone in their database. My biggest fear is what happens if this gets into the wrong hands? Black mail, extortion those sort of things.

 

Putting away my tinfoil hat for now. 

Edited by jcartwright99

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