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Tesla has over 3,000 Model 3 vehicles left in inventory in the US

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The Explorer doesn't get the PHEV in the US, according to my info anyway,  just Aviator.  The Escape PHEV is going to be your only option with the blue oval, and AWD isn't available in that configuration.   Have to say, when it comes to Ford's with plugs, it's still a fairly familiar story, not a great one.  Their focus is going to be HEVs.  

 

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27 minutes ago, akirby said:

Both ways if you charge at work (assuming the charger isn't blocked by some idiot in a humongous pickup).

Ha, not a chance my work gets a charger like that.

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1 hour ago, Assimilator said:

The Explorer doesn't get the PHEV in the US, according to my info anyway,  just Aviator.  The Escape PHEV is going to be your only option with the blue oval, and AWD isn't available in that configuration.   Have to say, when it comes to Ford's with plugs, it's still a fairly familiar story, not a great one.  Their focus is going to be HEVs.  

 

And if Ford wants to make a difference they need to change that position.  Most people drive less then 30 miles per day - that is why that number (plus China's 50km EV range requirement) is important.  My son had a 2012 Chevy Volt with a 40+ mile range, commuted 22 miles to work in LA traffic.  Would plug in at work and in 5 years his average was over 200 mpg.  Took my wife to the LA Auto show to see the new Aviator and if it comes in over 30 miles electric and priced competitive it will be her next car.  Chrysler has the Pacifica minivan hybrid which is a similar size that gets over 30 miles electric and in real world is turning out great average mpg, s out isn't that hard to do.  What Ford hopefully is doing is taking a page out of Tesla.  Great looking car, with performance AND economy.

 

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I understand Ford's position, most people don't want to plug their cars in for such little range.  I'm not a huge fan of PHEVs personally, although I've never lived with one.  If I'm going to plug my car in, I think it should be a proper BEV.

 

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5 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

I understand Ford's position, most people don't want to plug their cars in for such little range.  I'm not a huge fan of PHEVs personally, although I've never lived with one.  If I'm going to plug my car in, I think it should be a proper BEV.

 

But then you have to deal with range anxiety and charging on longer trips.

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5 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

I understand Ford's position, most people don't want to plug their cars in for such little range.  I'm not a huge fan of PHEVs personally, although I've never lived with one.  If I'm going to plug my car in, I think it should be a proper BEV.

 

In the shorter term until range is greater and/or infrastructure is established, I'd prefer a PHEV, even though BEVs can be awesome.  Yes, a BEV is likely fine for day-to-day driving, but anything outside of the ordinary (*some* weather conditions, or something like a road trip), and you're forced to take an inefficient route (one that has electric chargers) or forced into a rental to get somewhere outside of the electric's range.  With a PHEV, you don't have that problem, as you can still fill it with gas if/when need be.

If you absolutely never go on any sort of road trip or anything, then you may not need a PHEV.

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6 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

If you absolutely never go on any sort of road trip or anything, then you may not need a PHEV

 

Or if the BEV is a second or third vehicle.  Otherwise I also prefer a PHEV.

 

I'm leaning towards an Explorer to replace the MKX and was disappointed to hear it won't be a plug in.   We can afford the Aviator but I would prefer not to spend that much.  I'd rather get an Explorer hybrid and a used Boxster.   :)

 

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5 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

I just hope Ford/Lincoln will be able to avoid the first-year supply shortage that has so bedeviled the Navigator, something that has frustrated Lincoln dealerships to no end...

Well fortunately Chicago only has the Explorer to share with, not Super Duty AND Expedition to share with. 

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11 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Well fortunately Chicago only has the Explorer to share with, not Super Duty AND Expedition to share with. 

Looks like they pumped out 295K vehicles last year including 36K Tauruses and PIs.   Can they build more than 295K if necessary or are they maxed out?

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15 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

Or if the BEV is a second or third vehicle.  Otherwise I also prefer a PHEV.

 

I'm leaning towards an Explorer to replace the MKX and was disappointed to hear it won't be a plug in.   We can afford the Aviator but I would prefer not to spend that much.  I'd rather get an Explorer hybrid and a used Boxster.   :)

 

Well that would be a good combo.  Wife now has an Explorer Platinum which she loves but I have told her that her next car will be a PHEV, I have a 2014 Corvette and I am waiting on the C8, but our heavy driving is always her car so that mileage is more important.

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8 minutes ago, akirby said:

Looks like they pumped out 295K vehicles last year including 36K Tauruses and PIs.   Can they build more than 295K if necessary or are they maxed out?

Well, 36K would be 3,000/month, which would put Aviator at Lincoln's best-selling product (aside from the few Nautilus blips we've had lately).

The question is - does Aviator wait for a China launch until production starts there, or will the first batch be imported there from Chicago until Chinese production starts?  That'll impact production/US sales potential.

Edited by rmc523

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35 minutes ago, akirby said:

Looks like they pumped out 295K vehicles last year including 36K Tauruses and PIs.   Can they build more than 295K if necessary or are they maxed out?

I honestly don't know. That's one of the oldest plants in the ford system and one of the last (along with Flat Rock) to undergo a MAJOR retool so a lot of the machinery is pushing 30 years old. 

 

Theres also a lot of rumors flying of them not bringing back 3rd shift next year once the new explorer and aviator come online, very similar to what Louisville is doing. 

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22 hours ago, msm859 said:

Well actually the business model is to build BEV's that people will buy - make them fast and good looking, add a super charger network to help with range anxiety.  So far it has worked because no one else is close.  Further, they are dragging the rest of the industry - sometimes kicking and screaming into the 21st century.  BEV's are the future.  Hopefully Ford is serious about getting in the game.  Plug in hybrids might be an okay step.  We will see if they are serious with the new Aviator.  Less then a 30 mile range and they are not.

BEV is not the business model. That's the product. The BEV and super charger network are the products.

Tesla's business model is to control all aspect of a vehicle manufacturing and sales process. By definition, they are perusing a boutique strategy where they try to keep all the revenue generating and rent seeking activities within the control of the company. And it won't work because it is not scalable. Since Model 3's introduction, Tesla has not been able to function properly because various bottleneck inherent in its boutique business model. Direct sales and distribution works when you sell a few thousand cars. It's not going to work when you sell 1 million cars. Tesla will incur all kinds of unnecessary overhead costs if insist on controlling the distribution of its cars.

The path forward for Tesla is to focus on the part that will generate the most future profit and that is probably the manufacturing of cars. Keep capital investment related to new vehicle development, design, and manufacturing which will in turn generate cash flow (and hopefully profit). And divest the distribution and the charging network business to someone that do it better and cheaper (i.e. franchised dealers and utility companies)

Edited by bzcat

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1 hour ago, bzcat said:

BEV is not the business model. That's the product. The BEV and super charger network are the products.

Tesla's business model is to control all aspect of a vehicle manufacturing and sales process. By definition, they are perusing a boutique strategy where they try to keep all the revenue generating and rent seeking activities within the control of the company. And it won't work because it is not scalable. Since Model 3's introduction, Tesla has not been able to function properly because various bottleneck inherent in its boutique business model. Direct sales and distribution works when you sell a few thousand cars. It's not going to work when you sell 1 million cars. Tesla will incur all kinds of unnecessary overhead costs if insist on controlling the distribution of its cars.

The path forward for Tesla is to focus on the part that will generate the most future profit and that is probably the manufacturing of cars. Keep capital investment related to new vehicle development, design, and manufacturing which will in turn generate cash flow (and hopefully profit). And divest the distribution and the charging network business to someone that do it better and cheaper (i.e. franchised dealers and utility companies)

Captain Control Freak will NEVER let that happen 

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4 hours ago, bzcat said:

BEV is not the business model. That's the product. The BEV and super charger network are the products.

Tesla's business model is to control all aspect of a vehicle manufacturing and sales process. By definition, they are perusing a boutique strategy where they try to keep all the revenue generating and rent seeking activities within the control of the company. And it won't work because it is not scalable. Since Model 3's introduction, Tesla has not been able to function properly because various bottleneck inherent in its boutique business model. Direct sales and distribution works when you sell a few thousand cars. It's not going to work when you sell 1 million cars. Tesla will incur all kinds of unnecessary overhead costs if insist on controlling the distribution of its cars.

The path forward for Tesla is to focus on the part that will generate the most future profit and that is probably the manufacturing of cars. Keep capital investment related to new vehicle development, design, and manufacturing which will in turn generate cash flow (and hopefully profit). And divest the distribution and the charging network business to someone that do it better and cheaper (i.e. franchised dealers and utility companies)

Actually the "goal/purpose" of Tesla is to bring the world to total BEV's. To do that they had to adopt a business model:   Produce a BEV that. people would want.  Good looking AND Performance - no one else had/has done that.  They had to build a charging. network to address range  anxiety.  Selling. direct and vertical manufacturing was also necessary. Although scaling to size may create problems it is not necessarily cheaper to utilize franchise dealers - although might be faster because that essentially brings in a lot more capital.

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You forgot the part about being able to sell them at a profit that keeps the company in business.

You can sell at a loss initially - that’s how Lexus broke into the US market with the LS.  Porsche also did it with one of their new models.  But you can’t keep doing it indefinitely.

If they need to sell them for $20K more to make a sustainable profit then that’s what they should be doing.  If they can’t get enough volume at that price to stay in business then they shouldn’t be in business.

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Tesla Model 3 Standard Range with Standard Interior is now available for ordering. 220 mi. range with RWD.

Price in the U.S. is $36,200 including destination, before any EV incentives at the state or federal level. There's also a new Standard Range Plus model with 240 mi. range and interior upgrades for $38,200. https://3.tesla.com/model3/design

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4 hours ago, rperez817 said:

Tesla Model 3 Standard Range with Standard Interior is now available for ordering. 220 mi. range with RWD.

Price in the U.S. is $36,200 including destination, before any EV incentives at the state or federal level. There's also a new Standard Range Plus model with 240 mi. range and interior upgrades for $38,200. https://3.tesla.com/model3/design

Maybe this will help Model 3 sales, which plummeted from 25,000+ units in December to only 6,500 units in January.

https://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-tesla-sales-plung-20190201-story.html

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This is turning into a dumpster fire pretty fast....

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12 hours ago, rperez817 said:

Tesla Model 3 Standard Range with Standard Interior is now available for ordering. 220 mi. range with RWD.

Price in the U.S. is $36,200 including destination, before any EV incentives at the state or federal level. There's also a new Standard Range Plus model with 240 mi. range and interior upgrades for $38,200. https://3.tesla.com/model3/design

Trading the Jag in??

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27 minutes ago, twintornados said:

Trading the Jag in??

Better hope you can get that Jag back if you don't like the Tesla and want to return it during the 7-day trial period. Of course, you'll have to box it up yourself and pay for UPS shipping. ;)

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-02-28/tesla-35-000-model-3-arrival-why-aren-t-you-thrilled

Edited by Gurgeh

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27 minutes ago, Gurgeh said:

Better hope you can get that Jag back if you don't like the Tesla and want to return it during the 7-day trial period. Of course, you'll have to box it up yourself and pay for UPS shipping. ;)

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-02-28/tesla-35-000-model-3-arrival-why-aren-t-you-thrilled

7 day?  Dont you mean 1 - 3 day?  24 hours if you test drove it, 72 hours if you didnt.  Plus an additional 30-60 days for your refund and a half dozen email requests on where the hell your refund check is.

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Just now, blwnsmoke said:

7 day?  Dont you mean 1 - 3 day?  24 hours if you test drove it, 72 hours if you didnt.  Plus an additional 30-60 days for your refund and a half dozen email requests on where the hell your refund check is.

Good luck finding a place to test drive it with them shutting down their showrooms and going full online sales (and possibly some repair centers too if I read correctly their nebulous talk about moving more repairs to customer locations). 

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7 minutes ago, blwnsmoke said:

7 day?  Dont you mean 1 - 3 day?  24 hours if you test drove it, 72 hours if you didnt.  Plus an additional 30-60 days for your refund and a half dozen email requests on where the hell your refund check is.

DumpsterFire2.jpg

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31 minutes ago, Gurgeh said:

Good luck finding a place to test drive it with them shutting down their showrooms and going full online sales (and possibly some repair centers too if I read correctly their nebulous talk about moving more repairs to customer locations). 

Well you can't really test drive Ferraris and Lamborghinis either so it should work out just fine lol.

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