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Asian Automakers Dominate IIHS Safety Picks

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Review the testing criteria, it matters...you don’t see it because it doesn’t fit your narrative.  If you don’t agree that safety testing should be a priority to push manufacturers to build better products, that’s your perogative.  

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2 minutes ago, 02MustangGT said:

Who cares how many short overlap passenger side crashes occur?   It happens.  They are comparing vehicles under the same test criteria.    The reality is, the testing is FACT based and allows the consumer to decide if it is an important factor in their purchasing decision.  

 

They occur but do they occur exactly like the labaratory test with the same results?  Do Escape passengers get injured more often in small overlap passenger crashes than other vehicles?  That’s the issue and they simply don’t track that type of data on the angle of impact, etc. to be able to match it up.

 

Change the angle by a few degrees or speed by a few mph and you get a different result.

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Just now, 02MustangGT said:

Review the testing criteria, it matters...you don’t see it because it doesn’t fit your narrative.  If you don’t agree that safety testing should be a priority to push manufacturers to build better products, that’s your perogative.  

 

I think it’s great - to a point. Side impact testing is great because people get T-boned every day.   Same for rollover testing and head on crashes.  But when you start talking about degrees of offset frontal crashes I think we’ve past the point of any meaningful statistical significance in real world crashes.

 

If Escape is so much worse than other vehicles then the real world crash data and injuries should show that and IIHS should be reporting that but I don’t recall seeing anything like that.

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8 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

They occur but do they occur exactly like the labaratory test with the same results?  Do Escape passengers get injured more often in small overlap passenger crashes than other vehicles?  That’s the issue and they simply don’t track that type of data on the angle of impact, etc. to be able to match it up.

 

Change the angle by a few degrees or speed by a few mph and you get a different result.

I don’t disagree.  But see my follow-up comment above.  Testing leads to additional safety measures when designing and producing vehicles regardless of the manufacturer.  It’s obvious that these tests lead to action.  Ford and other manufacturers have responded by adding additional safety measures.  

Edited by 02MustangGT

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3 minutes ago, 02MustangGT said:

I don’t disagree.  But see my follow-up comment above.  Testing leads to additional safety measures when designing and producing vehicles regardless of the manufacturer.  It’s obvious that these test lead to action.  Ford and other manufacturers have responded by adding additional safety measures.  

And we know that Ford likes to batch its improvements at major refreshes or product cycle changes, so the result won't change anything for this model but hopefully the new Escape will be much improved...

Edited by jpd80

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On 12/22/2018 at 10:04 PM, akirby said:

 

I’m not excusing Ford’s performance here except to say I don’t think it has much effect on sales.  But that not the right analogy.  Here is the better analogy.

 

You get an A in Algebra 1.   Every year they add more and more concepts until Algebra 1 is now just as hard as Algebra 2  and now they go back and change your A to a F.

 

My big problem isn’t with the tests although I think we’ve reached the point of diminishing returns where more angled crash tests don’t translate to real world safety.   

My problem is the way they advertise the test results and shame the mfrs for not keeping up with the newer tests by making them seem unsafe.  They do it to keep themselves relevant.  If they came out and said “almost every vehicle is safe” then they’re done.

 

To me one of the biggest changes for safety would be to make automatic headlamps mandatory.  Every time I go somewhere at dusk or in the rain I see multiple vehicles with no lights and you can barely see them.  You flash your lights at them and they ignore you.  THAT would be a safety improvement for everyone.

It'd be helpful if they'd at least put a "under previous test criteria , vehicle scored X, under new testing system with added tests, vehicle scored Y"  A before and after basically, so you can see that before the new tests, it was fine, but the test results changed when others were added.  I guess that doesn't help with the "the new one looks like a death trap" thing.

---

Except auto headlights only do any good if you have them in auto mode...

On 12/22/2018 at 10:20 PM, sullynd said:

I think automatic headlights are part of the problem. I never have to turn my lights on. However, it’s not uncommon when I’ve brought my car in for service, or used valet, etc, for them to turn them off.  Since I’m not used to turning them on, sometimes it takes a while to notice.   When I see cars with the lights off, the vast majority of them are newer, and I wonder if that’s not what happened. 

The headlights in my Edge also suck. They’re marginally better than no lights at all ;)  

The problem is, we now have gauges that are illuminated at all times, whether the lights are on or not.  So if someone like a valet or service does shut them off, people get in and start the car at night, and they can clearly read the gauges because they're lit up like a christmas tree, while no exterior lighting is on (how they don't notice no other interior lights are on, I'm not sure).  In well-lit city roads, you may not notice your headlights are on.  Another factor is the bright DRLs these days - people may pull up behind cars and see THEM on, and think "oh my lights are on" when they aren't.

 

What they should do is put a warning display in the gauges if the light sensor detects the lights are off but it's dark out.

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On 12/22/2018 at 12:13 PM, akirby said:

 

Like they always do.  This is my biggest complaint - something that was a “top safety pick” a few years ago is now a death trap.

This pretty much nails it....

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It really comes down to the age of the vehicle more than anything.  A newer car is going to be better engineered for safety.  That's really Ford's issue right now. Even Ford's newest products (Ranger and EcoSport) are actually quite old.  Not to mention North America didn't get the new Focus which further exacerbates how broadly outdated Ford products generally are at this point in time.  I think attitudes will change in a few more years when Ford stops drawing negative attention to itself with poor scores, but I don't think we'll ever see Ford particularly consistent with regard to meeting IIHS, I think they decided long ago that it's nor a major benchmark for them.

Ford will get off the naughty list by the end of 2019 through a combination of model culling alongside the new Escape and Explorer fixing their biggest underachievers.  Although I have a bad feeling Ranger and EcoSport are just going to replace the flunkies that are leaving.  

Edited by Assimilator

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....and then akirby and the gang can gloat about how Ford aced the IIHS tests.  Merry Christmas!

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What's the point, nothing with vehicle safety will change with Ford's vehicles until new products are released...

 

Merry Christmas all

Edited by jpd80

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2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

It'd be helpful if they'd at least put a "under previous test criteria , vehicle scored X, under new testing system with added tests, vehicle scored Y"  A before and after basically, so you can see that before the new tests, it was fine, but the test results changed when others were added. 

Except auto headlights only do any good if you have them in auto mode...

 

What they should do is put a warning display in the gauges if the light sensor detects the lights are off but it's dark out.

Just keep the old 5 star rating and make the new ones 6 or 7 or 8 stars so people still see that the older 5 star vehicles are safe and the newer ones have more safety equipment and/or better test scores.

 

On the headlamps they would be automatic by default, like DRLs.  You would have to go into the menu to disable them.  That avoids user error.

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54 minutes ago, 02MustangGT said:

....and then akirby and the gang can gloat about how Ford aced the IIHS tests.  Merry Christmas!

 

Show me ONE post where I bragged about crash test ratings (or OTY awards).

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20 hours ago, 02MustangGT said:

I don’t disagree.  But see my follow-up comment above.  Testing leads to additional safety measures when designing and producing vehicles regardless of the manufacturer.  It’s obvious that these tests lead to action.  Ford and other manufacturers have responded by adding additional safety measures.  

 

Generally speaking I agree, but when we’re talking about offset crashes even the smallest change in the angle of the crash can change the outcome because you’re talking about front suspension components being pushed into the passenger compartment.   What this forces the mfrs to do is to engineer a solution for THAT specific test.   There are no guarantees that it helps with crashes at other angles or other parameters.  This is why I’d like to see some real world crash data that either backs up the test results or refutes them, but they just don’t record that type of detail, even if it’s known.

With head on crashes and side crashes you don’t have as much of an issue because you’re not dealing with angles.

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On 12/24/2018 at 6:54 PM, akirby said:

Just keep the old 5 star rating and make the new ones 6 or 7 or 8 stars so people still see that the older 5 star vehicles are safe and the newer ones have more safety equipment and/or better test scores.

 

On the headlamps they would be automatic by default, like DRLs.  You would have to go into the menu to disable them.  That avoids user error.

I've thought about that as well, but the problem is if/when they introduce more tests.  Now that vehicle that scored 6 or 7 stars now needs 8 or 9.  Do we keep going to the infinity-ith star?

 

That's why I proposed the "old and new" system.

Edited by rmc523

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4 hours ago, rmc523 said:

I've thought about that as well, but the problem is if/when they introduce more tests.  Now that vehicle that scored 6 or 7 stars now needs 8 or 9.  Do we keep going to the infinity-ith star?

 

That's why I proposed the "old and new" system.

 

I agree but at least it keeps the old one with the same rating.  Although they’d still change the wording to make it sound unsafe compared to the 7, 8 or 9 star vehicles.

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One thing a person has to take into consideration when making purchse decisions on reports from entities like IIHS is the overall odds of an accident ever happening. 

As a person who grew up in the era of not wearing any seatbelts, coupled with countless rides in cars like Pintos, Mavericks and Mustang IIs, I really shouldn't probably be here - right? Nor should my friends who did the same, right? The fact that my wife and I then spent over 220k combined miles in our '83 Escort and' 85 Tempo (now finally wearing seat belts!) should have sealed the death trap deal - correct? Esp. after watching videos like this: 

So my point is - while it's certainly commendable and desirable to constantly test and improve vehicle safety, I dont't let a "marginal" or "poor" rating in the latest IIHS or other organizations' latest and greatest "roof drop from 50 feet" test deter me from buying a vehicle I believe to be a good value or high in everyday-type performance quality.

Btw - be sure to watch the vid above. Now THAT'S some very scary crash testing %/&$#! I truly am grateful I never ran into anyone with that Escort! LOL 🤣

Edited by Ovaltine

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....”Although the U.S. population has been growing steadily since 1975, the rate of crash deaths per 100,000 population in 2016 is about half of what it was 40 years ago....”

https://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/general-statistics/fatalityfacts/overview-of-fatality-facts

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7 hours ago, 02MustangGT said:

....”Although the U.S. population has been growing steadily since 1975, the rate of crash deaths per 100,000 population in 2016 is about half of what it was 40 years ago....”

https://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/general-statistics/fatalityfacts/overview-of-fatality-facts

Nobody is denying there's been safety advancements.

Just saying that at some point, you reach a point of diminishing returns.

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