silvrsvt Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 https://www.autonews.com/article/20181212/OEM04/181219865/cadillac-plans-to-unveil-3-row-xt6-crossover-in-detroit looks boring vs the Aviator 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 It is nothing but an XT5-L, apparently. The XT4 is where the action will be in my opinion. My prediction is that Aviator will blow away the XT6, but the new Corsair can't come fast enough if Lincoln wants to compete with some of the great new luxury compact crossover offerings out there. https://carbuzz.com/news/cadillac-won-t-bother-giving-the-xt6-crossover-a-unique-interior?fbclid=IwAR1fh2ZK-iPTwHIWEbLTfd711C9fJRVwIWT_HyC7uiQXRU6HuRxNwN3zqog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 (edited) I keep hearing that Cadillac has dropped the ball on this one. I'll reserve judgement but this doesn't look good. Does it seem like they spent so much money on development of the cars, they have really rested on their laurels for CUV's? They only had the Escalade and SRX for so long. The Escalade sold because Lincoln gave up and there was no competition. The XT5 is nothing ground breaking. XT4 is like they just mailed it in. They really need a new design language Edited December 14, 2018 by jcartwright99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 9 hours ago, jcartwright99 said: I keep hearing that Cadillac has dropped the ball on this one. I'll reserve judgement but this doesn't look good. Does it seem like they spent so much money on development of the cars, they have really rested on their laurels for CUV's? They only had the Escalade and SRX for so long. The Escalade sold because Lincoln gave up and there was no competition. The XT5 is nothing ground breaking. XT4 is like they just mailed it in. They really need a new design language This seems to go back to the assertion that GM has been cutting costs on product development and design and this sure looks like it fits that bill. Start with a XT5 and spend half a day with photoshop and boom - XT6! Is Caddy doing anything new or unique with drivetrains? Or will this come with the standard 3.6L V6? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 XT4 barely beats MKC today, especially when it comes to power. Corsair is going to absolutely humiliate XT4. We can safely say Lincoln has eclipsed Cadillac at this point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 43 minutes ago, Assimilator said: XT4 barely beats MKC today, especially when it comes to power. Corsair is going to absolutely humiliate XT4. We can safely say Lincoln has eclipsed Cadillac at this point. Well, let's not get ahead of ourselves here in regards to Lincoln. Let's let the Aviator, Corsair and new Escalade come out first before we make any declarations. 2019 could be a big turning point for Lincoln. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 9 hours ago, akirby said: This seems to go back to the assertion that GM has been cutting costs on product development and design and this sure looks like it fits that bill. Start with a XT5 and spend half a day with photoshop and boom - XT6! Is Caddy doing anything new or unique with drivetrains? Or will this come with the standard 3.6L V6? The Chi platform can only support transverse engine so 3.6 V6 is the most GM has to offer. 2.5 I4, 2.0 Turbo I4, 3.6 V6... pick your poison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 6 hours ago, bzcat said: The Chi platform can only support transverse engine so 3.6 V6 is the most GM has to offer. 2.5 I4, 2.0 Turbo I4, 3.6 V6... pick your poison. Sounds DOA to me....unless they turbo that 3.6. That platform is heavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Well, they do have the new 2.7 I4, that just "may" fit. Who knows... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 GM does have a 4.2L V8, will that fit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icecoffee76 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 The XT6 does seems to have an improved front grille and headlights compared to XT5. Still has a long ways to go to match Lincoln style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 The XT6 will probably beat the Aviator in sales just based on Price, XT6 will probably start in the mid-high 40's and top out in the Mid 70's with super cruise etc. The Aviator will be Mid 60's base and could see 100K fully loaded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 On 12/14/2018 at 11:25 AM, Assimilator said: XT4 barely beats MKC today, especially when it comes to power. Corsair is going to absolutely humiliate XT4. We can safely say Lincoln has eclipsed Cadillac at this point. Now we just need sales to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msm859 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 2 hours ago, jasonj80 said: The XT6 will probably beat the Aviator in sales just based on Price, XT6 will probably start in the mid-high 40's and top out in the Mid 70's with super cruise etc. The Aviator will be Mid 60's base and could see 100K fully loaded. Umm I don't think so. The Navigator tops out at 100k fully loaded. The Aviator will start in the 50's and should top out in the 70's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 17 minutes ago, msm859 said: Umm I don't think so. The Navigator tops out at 100k fully loaded. The Aviator will start in the 50's and should top out in the 70's I bet a Black Label PHEV will be in the $80Ks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) Aviator will be expensive, It will start above a Platinum Explorer and that will be in the upper 50's. Edited December 17, 2018 by jasonj80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 On 12/14/2018 at 11:25 AM, Assimilator said: XT4 barely beats MKC today, especially when it comes to power. Corsair is going to absolutely humiliate XT4. We can safely say Lincoln has eclipsed Cadillac at this point. 3 hours ago, rmc523 said: Now we just need sales to follow. There are a couple of things holding Lincoln back, in my opinion. One, they are still working off the perception legacy of the lost decade. Navigator and now Aviator are taking care of that, though building brand loyalty and making those conquest sales takes a little time. Second, luxury buyers just don't prefer to shop at mass-market dealerships. Lincoln is working on forcing stand-along Lincoln dealerships, but that's a longer-term project. If you want proof of that, just look at Navi/Esc sales in the last year and a half. Granted, a significantly improved Escalade is on the horizon but the Caddy still greatly outsells the Lincoln Navigator despite the latter currently being the clearly superior product. But part of that might be Lincoln's supply problem with the Navi. They just didn't have the courage of their convictions, it seems, in planning early build capacity. Hope they get supply on the Aviator right, because the demand on that one is going to crush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msm859 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 6 hours ago, akirby said: I bet a Black Label PHEV will be in the $80Ks. I'll take that bet. The price difference between a loaded Navigator and a loaded Expedition is @$22,000. A loaded Explorer is @$54,000 if you add $22,000 (which is a greater percentage) you get @76,000. I say it will be in the $70k's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 10 hours ago, msm859 said: I'll take that bet. The price difference between a loaded Navigator and a loaded Expedition is @$22,000. A loaded Explorer is @$54,000 if you add $22,000 (which is a greater percentage) you get @76,000. I say it will be in the $70k's In a world where the Range Rover Velar (a very nice 2-row) just nudges above $80k fully loaded, my spider sense is telling me that a loaded Grand Touring also cracks 80. Would be nice if they can keep it in the 70s, but we'll find out for sure in a few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 10 hours ago, msm859 said: I'll take that bet. The price difference between a loaded Navigator and a loaded Expedition is @$22,000. A loaded Explorer is @$54,000 if you add $22,000 (which is a greater percentage) you get @76,000. I say it will be in the $70k's But the Navigator doesn't come as a plug in hybrid. The PHEV option alone is probably $10K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msm859 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Gurgeh said: In a world where the Range Rover Velar (a very nice 2-row) just nudges above $80k fully loaded, my spider sense is telling me that a loaded Grand Touring also cracks 80. Would be nice if they can keep it in the 70s, but we'll find out for sure in a few months. I thought someone at Lincoln talked about their competition - Q7, X5, XC90 etc. and when you look at those they can get to $80K+ totally loaded, so I think Lincoln would want to beat them and keep it under $80k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 1 minute ago, msm859 said: I thought someone at Lincoln talked about their competition - Q7, X5, XC90 etc. and when you look at those they can get to $80K+ totally loaded, so I think Lincoln would want to beat them and keep it under $80k Exactly. It's more about how it stacks up against the competition and what they charge than how it compares to other Ford products. The PHEV Aviator is in a completely new class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 31 minutes ago, akirby said: Exactly. It's more about how it stacks up against the competition and what they charge than how it compares to other Ford products. The PHEV Aviator is in a completely new class. Which means they can charge whatever they want for it really* *as long as they're getting that mythical 10% margin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 13 hours ago, msm859 said: I'll take that bet. The price difference between a loaded Navigator and a loaded Expedition is @$22,000. A loaded Explorer is @$54,000 if you add $22,000 (which is a greater percentage) you get @76,000. I say it will be in the $70k's A couple points here - Explorer is likely to push further north with the new model to begin with, AND more importantly, both models will come with hybridization, which hasn't been available at all, which is likely to add to the pricepoint. Furthermore, with Explorer reportedly only getting a regular hybrid setup, and Aviator getting a more expensive PHEV setup only, that will also add to the pricing gap between the two, pushing Aviator even higher. I don't see a scenario where Aviator won't top out in the 80s. 18 hours ago, Gurgeh said: There are a couple of things holding Lincoln back, in my opinion. One, they are still working off the perception legacy of the lost decade. Navigator and now Aviator are taking care of that, though building brand loyalty and making those conquest sales takes a little time. Second, luxury buyers just don't prefer to shop at mass-market dealerships. Lincoln is working on forcing stand-along Lincoln dealerships, but that's a longer-term project. If you want proof of that, just look at Navi/Esc sales in the last year and a half. Granted, a significantly improved Escalade is on the horizon but the Caddy still greatly outsells the Lincoln Navigator despite the latter currently being the clearly superior product. But part of that might be Lincoln's supply problem with the Navi. They just didn't have the courage of their convictions, it seems, in planning early build capacity. Hope they get supply on the Aviator right, because the demand on that one is going to crush. Yup, I agree. It's funny that they did so much work years ago consolidating into Ford-Lincoln stores, when the opposite was really needed for Lincoln long term to have a truly luxury experience. I understand why it was done, though. Hopefully they can start getting this process going more quickly, it can only help. I also think Cadillac (and other luxury brands for that matter) have a lot more dealers than Lincoln does, so they're able to reach a broader audience, whereas Lincoln shoppers would need to do more work to seek out a dealer. You're definitely right about them having to polish off the tarnish the Lincoln brand has gotten over the past decade plus, and that won't happen overnight, as we're seeing with Cadillac. But Navigator, Aviator, and to a lesser extent Conti, are great stepping stones to start propelling the brand upward in the public's mind. I think Aviator opened a lot of eye, and everything I've seen on it has been positive. I'd love to see them do a major and consistent (not just a few ads at debut and then nothing) push advertising-wise when Aviator arrives. Hammer it home and get the word out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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