Jump to content

New Facebook Pages

Ford Mach E

Ford Thunder

  • Custom Search


jasonj80

Volkswagen says it may use Ford's U.S. manufacturing capacity

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, twintornados said:

I don't think you would see Lincoln "across the pond" any time soon....Ford has the Vignale trim line that effectively takes a Ford product into Lincoln territory levels of comfort and convenience. If Lincoln were to make a move into Euro markets, it would likely come from any production in China.

But Vignale doesn't seem to be very appealing in Europe. In the end of the day it is a Ford and people think twice before paying the extra. A separate brand could add value. And VW has been able to mantain similar products in different price tiers, throughout the brands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The last time Ford tried to sell Lincoln in Europe was when they exported the LS, and it didn't go very well. I don't think Ford or Lincoln are in any hurry to try it again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, passis said:

Any news on the european side of the story? What are the expected changes? 

I wonder if this partnership could help taking Lincoln across the pond, especially to save plants from being axed (not to mention improve profitability)

I saw this..

 

Quote

 

Ford begins European restructuring with management shakeup

LONDON -- Ford Motor Co. has taken the first step in restructuring its money-losing European business that is expected to involve axing models, cutting jobs, and possibly factory closures.

 Ford has appointed executives in Germany and the UK to implement its plan, called “Sprint to 6 Reset and Redesign,” the automaker said in a news release on Friday.

The name refers to Ford’s aim to reach a 6 percent EBIT (earnings before interest and taxes) profit margin. The company did not give a timeframe for the target.

Ford said its former head of quality, Gunnar Herrmann, will head the restructuring in Germany, while Graham Hoare will carry out the same task in the UK. Hoare was previously responsible for Ford’s test and development operations worldwide.

The bulk of announcements around the restructuring are expected between now and the beginning of 2020, a Ford spokesperson said.

More partnerships

Ford has said the European plan will involve concentrating on its profit-making crossovers, SUVs and commercial vehicles and cutting unprofitable model lines. The company will also rely more heavily on partnerships to keep down costs.

 

Ford and Volkswagen Group have said they are discussing an alliance for commercial vehicles. This may be broadened to include potential collaboration on autonomous driving and arrangements to make vehicles for one another, Bloomberg reported in October. Ford has not confirmed that.

Ford already has a long-term partnership with PSA Group to share engines.

Ford lost $245 million in Europe in the third quarter, compared with a loss of $53 million in the same quarter last year. This was due to weakness in Turkey and Russia, and launch-related costs for the latest Focus compact car, the company said on Oct. 23.

Morgan Stanley estimates the bulk of Ford’s $11 billion global restructuring plan will center on Europe and the region will suffer the bulk of 25,000 global job losses it believes Ford is planning. It values Ford’s European business at “negative $7 billion,” Morgan Stanley analyst Adam Jonas said in a note.

Ford called the Morgan Stanley job cut estimates “pure speculation.” However, the automaker has said its restructuring would happen “largely outside of North America.”

Unprofitable vehicles

In July, Ford’s CFO Bob Shanks said the bulk of Ford’s European vehicle range was unprofitable. This consisted “principally of cars and multi-activity vehicles [minivans] such as C-Max,” he said. Ford’s Transit van, Kuga crossover and Ranger pickup and “selected imports” are selling profitably in Europe, Shanks said, without naming the imported vehicles. They are likely to include the Edge midsize crossover and the Mustang sports car.

Jim Farley, Ford’s head of global markets, said commercial vans are earning 13 percent profit margins for the automaker in Europe. He acknowledged that Ford has been slow to expand in the crossover/SUV segment in Europe.

Ford has said it expects a full-year loss in 2018 in Europe after earning $234 million in the region last year as it battles headwinds such as the weak pound in the UK, its biggest European market, high raw material costs and a slump in demand for once-core models.

Ford has about 54,000 employees in Europe and 24 manufacturing facilities, data from the company shows.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a German ploy by Daimler and VW to undermine and emaciate Ford.  Both of them are big players in heavy trucks in Europe and Asia and Ford is starting to make inroads into those markets with the Cargo and now F-Max Turkish Otosan heavy trucks.  Daimler - because their butt ugly Mercedes trucks didn't sell back in the 90's -- bought Freightliner and knew they had to get rid of that pesky Ford heavy truck lineup if they were ever to see a worthwhile profit!!!  So they stole the L-series for $300 million and called it Sterling and then got rid of it after 10 years.  VW/Scania is gobbling up International as we speak.  For Ford to trust VW after Dieselgate shows how naive Ford is!!!!  Ford doesn't need VW!   Transit rules in Europe and the USA.   Daimler, as in Sprinter,  is not happy!  VW and Daimler are in this together.  Don't doubt it for one minute!!!   Daimler already screwed Ford once with the Sterling deal, so they're having VW do their dirty work for them this time!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ford's Heavy trucks are small potatoes to the Europeans,

Quote

 

https://www.fordotosan.com.tr/en/operations/production/production-and-capacity

By end of 2017, the Gölcük plant, with 315,000-unit capacity, that manufactures Transit and Custom models, and the Yeniköy plant, with 110,000-unit capacity, where the Courier models are manufactured make up the total 425,000-unit capacity of the Kocaeli plants. The İnönü plant where Ford Trucks vehicles are produced has a capacity of 15,000 units.

In 2017, we have announced that we will increase Gölcük Plant capacity from 290,000 units to 330,000 units. The final total vehicle production capacity of our three plants in 2018 September, when 52 million USD investment completion is due, will be 455,000 units.  

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

This is a German ploy by Daimler and VW to undermine and emaciate Ford.  Both of them are big players in heavy trucks in Europe and Asia and Ford is starting to make inroads into those markets with the Cargo and now F-Max Turkish Otosan heavy trucks.  Daimler - because their butt ugly Mercedes trucks didn't sell back in the 90's -- bought Freightliner and knew they had to get rid of that pesky Ford heavy truck lineup if they were ever to see a worthwhile profit!!!  So they stole the L-series for $300 million and called it Sterling and then got rid of it after 10 years.  VW/Scania is gobbling up International as we speak.  For Ford to trust VW after Dieselgate shows how naive Ford is!!!!  Ford doesn't need VW!   Transit rules in Europe and the USA.   Daimler, as in Sprinter,  is not happy!  VW and Daimler are in this together.  Don't doubt it for one minute!!!   Daimler already screwed Ford once with the Sterling deal, so they're having VW do their dirty work for them this time!

I hope FORD does not fall for any bs from vw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The trick to an alliance is to not get ahead of yourself aand agree to more than is really needed.

There's an opportunity for Ford and VW to benefit form this by sticking to or, limiting the extent of cooperation to areas that need addressing, I do wince at the thought of VW MQB platforms replacing Fiesta Focus and Mondeo but understand that may be necessary collateral damage going forward but clearly, VW is after commercial alliance with Transit and ranger, that makes sense in Europe, POW and North America.

Ford has already indicated that the bulk of the 25,000 reduction in staff will occur n Europe so that should tell us all we need to know about car manufacturing in Europe/Germany..it will probably be outsourced to VW....

Edited by jpd80

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

jpd80.........Ford isn't big in Europe quite yet, but they won the IAA 2019 truck of the year with the F-Max tractor and VW and Daimler are not happy!  Also read my post in the "VW using Ford capacity" thread.

Edited by Joe771476

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ford Motor Co. said on Monday it had started negotiations with German worker representatives about potential job cuts at its Saarlouis plant following a decision to discontinue production of its Ford C-Max model.

"We can confirm that we are entering into formal negotiations with our Works Council with the objective of ending production of C-Max/Grand C-Max at Saarlouis," Ford said in a statement.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20181210/OEM01/181219932/ford-germany-job-cuts?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&fbclid=IwAR1yqmw_JiUk3ZFJ67iRyrqxjdJfkhy3C87gwC0CAA2NNH5Wfh9930IV-DQ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/7/2018 at 11:18 PM, passis said:

Any news on the european side of the story? What are the expected changes? 

I wonder if this partnership could help taking Lincoln across the pond, especially to save plants from being axed (not to mention improve profitability)

Ford will get versions of VW minivans and large cars - the new Touran to replace C-Max, Sharan to replace S-Max, and some version of Passat to replace Mondeo.

VW will get rebadged Ford vans and pickup trucks.

Edited by bzcat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, bzcat said:

Ford will get versions of VW minivans and sedans.

VW will get rebadged Ford vans and pickup trucks.

Some Ford SUV's are also in VW's future as well as powertrain sharing. 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, bzcat said:

Ford will get versions of VW minivans and large cars - the new Touran to replace C-Max, Sharan to replace S-Max, and some version of Passat to replace Mondeo.

Why are they still looking at replacing these products? Because of fleet sales?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Why are they still looking at replacing these products? Because of fleet sales?

That makes no sense.  The Euro market is abandoning those types of products, so lets enter a partnership to keep making them - something people don't want?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know why Ford wants to replace Galaxy, S-Max, or C-Max with VWs, these are products they should be able to replace with their own crossovers and vans.  I think Ford still wants Mondeo for China, but they should probably just pull that product out of Europe anyway.   

Edited by Assimilator

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Assimilator said:

I don't know why Ford wants to replace Galaxy, S-Max, or C-Max with VWs, these are products they should be able to replace with their own crossovers and vans.  I think Ford still wants Mondeo for China, but they should probably just pull that product out of Europe anyway.   

I can understand Mondeo.  But like you said, the market is going to crossovers, why not just bring the whole lot over?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

Why are they still looking at replacing these products? Because of fleet sales?

Yes, fleet sales, which is still important to Ford.

Ford will gladly sell its own SUVs to private buyers but vast majority of large sedan and wagons are company car sales, and Ford dominates the minivan fleet sale market in Europe.

More importantly, VW is committed to these products so it will cut Ford a very sweet deal to supply these models to Ford and managed the volume decline that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All of these products are very specific to Europe and I don't think Ford really want to develop EU only products if they can find a solution around it.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Assimilator said:

All of these products are very specific to Europe and I don't think Ford really want to develop EU only products if they can find a solution around it.  

Would would be to use rebadged or reskinned VW products, which makes sense-make someone else do the leg work on them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, bzcat said:

Ford will get versions of VW minivans and large cars - the new Touran to replace C-Max, Sharan to replace S-Max, and some version of Passat to replace Mondeo.

Huh? Passat sales are cratering in both Europe and the U.S. 

http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/volkswagen/volkswagen-passat/

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/volkswagen/volkswagen-passat/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

They have a refreshed product coming out next year of it and I'm sure the platform is shared with Skoda, Audi, etc that help amotorize the costs of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

They have a refreshed product coming out next year of it and I'm sure the platform is shared with Skoda, Audi, etc that help amotorize the costs of it.

Thanks, I was wondering. The sudden, steep drop in volume was a lot even for sedan sales being down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

The big sales fall off in Sept 2018 has to do with VW withdrawing certain diesel engine due to emission certification but those model will return in 2019. Also note, Skoda Superb sales is doing much better: http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/skoda/skoda-superb/

Together, Passat and Superb are selling at almost 5x the volume of Mondeo. The volume decline on Mondeo is largely the same problem as Fusion... it is simply too damn old. Remember, the Fusion we have is itself a mid cycle update of  Mk4 Mondeo. So Europeans have had largely the same Mondeo for nearly 12 years now.

But the larger point remains - the graduate decline of large car sales is precisely why VW will cut a good deal to bring Ford in. VW is still committed to selling large sedan and wagon in Europe due to politics so it will be glad to make a Mondeo for Ford. VW has to keep making these cars in Europe to keep the Union at bay and it has the capacity to easily supply Ford as many Mondeo as it want.

Edited by bzcat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BTW, this rumor/news of shared VW products is largely unknown to the people I know at Ford.  So I can't really vouch for it but I would keep an eye on it. 

Up until recently, there was still evidence that Ford was developing another Mondeo+Crossover for Europe (with plans for the US to get the Crossover, the so-called Fusion Active).  Given how extremely fluid everything has been, I would not be surprised if all of this is changing. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have any real info about what Ford and VW are going to do in Europe. Just my educated guess based on the fact that VW really is stuck building these large cars and minivans so it would love to have a partner to split the volume and costs.

But the model sharing with VW in Europe in a narrow sense that is limited to the dying segments doesn't preclude Ford working on a Fusion Active which has higher growth potential and worldwide appeal.

 

Edited by bzcat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×