rmc523 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 42 minutes ago, Assimilator said: The Vignale trim is basically Ford's luxury brand in Europe, it's the Lincoln version so the pricing and amenities go up with it. Remember, Europe doesn't have Lincoln...so which would you prefer? Just make that grille the Titanium grille and call it a day. It doesn't need the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Assimilator said: The Vignale trim is basically Ford's luxury brand in Europe, it's the Lincoln version so the pricing and amenities go up with it. Remember, Europe doesn't have Lincoln...so which would you prefer? Ford hasn't been very consistent with the branding and look. The Vignale grille on Kuga and Edge is used on Titanium in China (there is no Vignale in China), and the Vignale Mondeo grille was used on Fusion Platinum here last year, and currently on Fusion Titanium. But Vignale does feature better looking (and probably better quality materials too) interior that is missing in the US counterpart (although they do appear in Chinese Titanium more or less). Edited December 7, 2018 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Here's some additional commentary and photos on the subject. Notice how similar the new Explorer is to the height of the Ford Flex. https://youtu.be/Yisom1UgOSE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 6 hours ago, Sevensecondsuv said: Yeah I know it's optional on xlt. I guess I meant no console was available on XLT. Did you mean XL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 11 minutes ago, akirby said: Did you mean XL? XL is split bench only. XLT is split bench unless you get the sport package. I think anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 3 hours ago, Sevensecondsuv said: XL is split bench only. XLT is split bench unless you get the sport package. I think anyways. Correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70 Stang Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, akirby said: Correct You can order the console in any xlt, but with column shifter unless it's a sport.......at least that's how it was in '15. Edited December 8, 2018 by 70 Stang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Have the latest F150s gone to a dial shifter like the cars? Once they do that there is no need to design two different cable shift systems for column and floor shift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 10 minutes ago, Sevensecondsuv said: Have the latest F150s gone to a dial shifter like the cars? Once they do that there is no need to design two different cable shift systems for column and floor shift. F-series has not gotten the dial shifter yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 4 hours ago, 70 Stang said: You can order the console in any xlt, but with column shifter unless it's a sport.......at least that's how it was in '15. Ah yes, I forgot the console and shifter were separate options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 looks like the explorer stole its grill from vw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucky2 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 On 12/6/2018 at 7:13 PM, Sevensecondsuv said: I also noticed that. The center stack just keeps getting bigger on everything it seems. Meanwhile the leg space keeps getting more cramped. I know the column shift and 50/50 split buckets on our 07 Town Car is so 1980s, but dang that thing is comfy on long trips! I'd really like to see that arrangement reappear in at least the bottom trim of few models beyond XL F-series. Buckets/console/floor shift for those who want it on the pricier trims but a good old split bench/open center/column shift on the base models for those who just want the drivers compartment more open. The only thing I can think of is they must do it for crash standards, otherwise I have a hard time believing product managers would be that consistently incompetent...then again, we've been on large IT projetcts where egos on one opinions get involved and whammo, we're fixing months/year later what the IT equivalent insisted upon despite being told how F'd it was (and then they try and pass it off for some other reason, because those same egos can't take being wrong). For me though, I'm 6'2" and 245 lbs, so on the larger side. When they do the typical cramped cockpit design, what happens is sitting with my right leg perfectly straight out in front to of me is painful after a few minutes. My leg, knee, hips, and back start cramping and throbbing. My leg wants to naturally splay open so it lays to the right, like men naturally sit. So what happens when I do that is my right leg is plastered up against the 600/MO plastic they absolutely had to put there, which on a short trip is annoying, on a long trip is an absolute joke. That's why I say they must have women and small men designing, testing, and making product decisions on thsee large vehicles, as there is zero way a big guy in those positions would ever put this shit needlessly there. From a use perspective, a horizontal cup holder arrangement along with a large center readily accessible storage area is so much better in every day usability it's something that is right at top of consideration when buying for my family. Why on these larger vehicles Ford keeps F'ing them up like they'll be used by just the driver all the time is beyond me. For what? Shifter 'on the floor'? Ridiculous. I guess I'll keep driving my dad's 2000 Expedition until Ford can get something right. But the crucially 'floor mounted' shifter dials though... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucky2 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 On 12/7/2018 at 12:43 PM, akirby said: I’ve driven a Focus, Escape, Edge, MkX and 2 Fusions all with center consoles and not once has my right leg felt cramped by the console. This must be some personal thing with the way you position your right leg. I don’t think it’s a vehicle problem. We have a 2003 Ranger Level Ii, auto, a 2000 Expedition Eddie Bauer, and a 2014 Flex SEL 202A package currently in the stable. The Expedition is obviously the most comfortable as its simply a wider vehicle so the full length console and resultingcockpit isn't obtrusive as far as leg positioning goes. It also has a properly designed console for, gasp, actual family use (shocking, I know). The Ranger is next in comfort as the console doesn't extend all the way to the dash, there is a gap there. So when men, who don't naturally sit with their legs straight out in front of them like women, but rather have them splayed open, sit in it, their right knee and leg are able to go wherever they need to go into their natural position. Next we have the $45k 2014 Flex. A little too firm of a ride for a cruiser like it is, but that doesn't matter because within a couple of hours, my entire leg, hip, and back area is on fire because of the plastic cockpit keeping me from putting me leg where it's comfortable. Bonus is, that plastic is nice and unbreathable, so my leg gets nice and clammy as a side benny. Won't even get into the stupidity of the floor mounted shifter... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Like I said this seems to be a personal issue with the way you sit which is a legitimate issue for you, but not for the other 99.99% of buyers who don’t have that problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) Let's face it - it's higher than 0.01%. Not saying it's anywhere near a majority, but there are plenty of big guys out there who'd like more room. It seems like Ford could do some more market research of the issue to ensure their product has maximum appeal to the largest cross section of buyers possible. I'm guessing the new Explorer is going to be shift-by-wire (the dial), so it's not like there's any real engineering to do to move the shifter out of the console. At that point offering a console delete / split bench option wouldn't cost much at all. The split bench with a fold down armrest/ middle seat back that also doubles as a center console with built in cup holders as featured on the panthers, most F-150s (I looked and even the 2019 Lariats have a leather 40/20/40 split bench available), and the old Ranger is a very welcome design with some buyers. It'd be nice to see it in Explorer and Expedition due to their target audience. Do it like the current F Series: Leather captains chairs and full-length console standard, but a leather 40/20/40 split bench available at no extra cost. Edited December 10, 2018 by Sevensecondsuv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Ford already did that market research - that’s why they got rid of split benches and added consoles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 hour ago, akirby said: Ford already did that market research - that’s why they got rid of split benches and added consoles. Apparently that's not the case with F Series. The split bench w/o console is available at least up through the Lariat trim (I didn't check KR or Limited). There are obviously enough buyers who want that if Ford is offering it. I suspect the lack of that option on Explorer/Expedition is more just a product of decontenting than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Or perhaps is a product of the platform, and it's all a critical part of the crash structure.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 16 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Or perhaps is a product of the platform, and it's all a critical part of the crash structure.... I have a hard time understanding how having a big chunk of hard plastic right next to ones leg could possibly be an advantage in a collision, but you might be on to something. In any case, while that might be true with the current D4 Explorer, going to CD6 offers a great chance to get rid of that limitation. As for Expedition, it uses the same basic cab structure as F Series, so I doubt that's it. To me, it smacks of cutting less-than-wildly-popular options in an effort to reduce the number of build variations (i.e. decontenting). While that approach certainly has a place on Fusion on down, I don't think it makes a lot of sense on higher-MSRP, big volume, family-oriented products like Explorer/Expedition/F Series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 F150 buyers and SUV buyers are not the same - by a long shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 On 12/7/2018 at 8:25 PM, Assimilator said: Here's some additional commentary and photos on the subject. Notice how similar the new Explorer is to the height of the Ford Flex. https://youtu.be/Yisom1UgOSE Interesting that they made it so much lower. 2 hours ago, Sevensecondsuv said: Apparently that's not the case with F Series. The split bench w/o console is available at least up through the Lariat trim (I didn't check KR or Limited). There are obviously enough buyers who want that if Ford is offering it. I suspect the lack of that option on Explorer/Expedition is more just a product of decontenting than anything else. And I believe that option stops at the Lariat trim - because buyers of trims above that don't want a console delete option. 2 hours ago, Sevensecondsuv said: I have a hard time understanding how having a big chunk of hard plastic right next to ones leg could possibly be an advantage in a collision, but you might be on to something. In any case, while that might be true with the current D4 Explorer, going to CD6 offers a great chance to get rid of that limitation. As for Expedition, it uses the same basic cab structure as F Series, so I doubt that's it. To me, it smacks of cutting less-than-wildly-popular options in an effort to reduce the number of build variations (i.e. decontenting). While that approach certainly has a place on Fusion on down, I don't think it makes a lot of sense on higher-MSRP, big volume, family-oriented products like Explorer/Expedition/F Series. Also, it can be crash testing of the center seat you create by removing the console. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Right now F-150 is the only Detroit Automaker with two types of gear selectors, column and console. The GM trucks are suppose to get a console shifter, but they still have a column shifter while RAM has the dashboard dial. For the sake of design simplicity, it would be nice if Ford adopted RAM's approach, but Ford has to please allot more existing customers so I imagine that's all up for debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 hour ago, rmc523 said: Interesting that they made it so much lower. I really don't think its that much lower. The difference between the Explorer and the Flex is 2 inches 70 inches vs 68 inches on the Flex. Part of the reason it looks smaller is that the new 2020 Explorer doesn't have the ginormus belt line to it that the D3 has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: I really don't think its that much lower. The difference between the Explorer and the Flex is 2 inches 70 inches vs 68 inches on the Flex. Part of the reason it looks smaller is that the new 2020 Explorer doesn't have the ginormus belt line to it that the D3 has. Is that all the difference is? Interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) 2" is actually quite a big difference when it comes to measuring height. 3" separates Escape and Edge, 2" separates Edge and Flex. Ford's Crossovers have gotten lower with each generation, Edge and Escape dropped 2" each with their 2nd gen redesigns, it looks like Explorer will be doing the same. The other import piece of data is the height of the hip-point in the car. The differences can make you feel like you're driving a station wagon (like the Flex) vs an SUV (Like Explorer). The new Explorer will probably feel like you're stepping down into a car compared to the old one. Which is sorta ironic. Edited December 10, 2018 by Assimilator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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