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CAP retool/upgrading March 1st- April fools


Ididntdoit

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CAP retools in March, normally we would be called back by seniority starting off working one shift then gradually bringing on the second shift. Last time I was low seniority in body and had to go back to trim for awhile when we returned to work. We have enough legacy employees to fill one full shift, but they're sending workers from body with 4-5yrs to dearborn to train on the new jobs. This doesn't make sense unless they're not going to respect seniority and bring back low seniority workers before legacy. They just rolled over a couple hundred tpter's too, we believe that was to limit the amount of openings for transfers from other plants before our local election. So basically next year is going to be interesting, will they bring the crews back respecting seniority and pissing off all the new hires our union has been feeding BS too all year? or will they piss of legacy and try to bring in low tier before legacy when we return? 

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No way a round it?

After thirty years I`m sure you`ve read or heard about the "major launch" provisions in the master agreement. Now try to understand CAP is going through not one but two "major launch" processes..(on the fly).... U611 & U625. Just the 100% sheet metal change for each model would warrant master agreement launch provisions to be enforced. Then take into consideration the drive train changes and the fact we have never produced a Hybrid or full electric and you have seniority not even in the picture.  

As for seniority, during this agreed on major launch situation the company will utilize "their" plans for training and scheduling of operators within classifications to preform operations as needed to fulfill the launch planning/schedule.

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1 minute ago, Decker said:

No way a round it?

After thirty years I`m sure you`ve read or heard about the "major launch" provisions in the master agreement. Now try to understand CAP is going through not one but two "major launch" processes..(on the fly).... U611 & U625. Just the 100% sheet metal change for each model would warrant master agreement launch provisions to be enforced. Then take into consideration the drive train changes and the fact we have never produced a Hybrid or full electric and you have seniority not even in the picture.  

As for seniority, during this agreed on major launch situation the company will utilize "their" plans for training and scheduling of operators within classifications to preform operations as needed to fulfill the launch planning/schedule.

oh this will look great as an election follows, imagine how many legacy are going to blow a gasket if they find out joe shmoe with 5 yr is called back to work before someone with 15yr. Just like their "zero tolerance" for sexual harassment and the harassers still have jobs in our plant with union protection. Yeah next year will be interesting.

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All legacy members have been through this, weather they remember or just want to use this to campaign for change :rant:or start rumors/complain that remains to be seen. As for our political circus who knows... we have our share of sheep shit pot stirring members.

The current Rep`s can just point at the master agreement and state with all honesty "local rep`s" just enforce the master they don't negotiate it.  I`m sure it will be thrown out that,  "youallll voted for the master agreement". (but really CAP voted down the last two master (piece of shit) agreements)  

Ahhh sheeppies don`t read, don`t seek truthful answers but love the sheepshit that is politics.... by next April we will be a 6K membership local, maybe 1000 will vote?  but, there will be no shortage of whining and drama.... 

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10 hours ago, Decker said:

No way a round it?

After thirty years I`m sure you`ve read or heard about the "major launch" provisions in the master agreement. Now try to understand CAP is going through not one but two "major launch" processes..(on the fly).... U611 & U625. Just the 100% sheet metal change for each model would warrant master agreement launch provisions to be enforced. Then take into consideration the drive train changes and the fact we have never produced a Hybrid or full electric and you have seniority not even in the picture.  

As for seniority, during this agreed on major launch situation the company will utilize "their" plans for training and scheduling of operators within classifications to preform operations as needed to fulfill the launch planning/schedule.

I do not believe that for one minute.So you mean to say that if they cut a shift they can man a shift they bring back shift with people with little or no seniority? They might be able to pull a a few people with lower seniority because of a classification but only for the launch. You better believe with someone with over 30 years as myself if they have somebody with 5 years working full time while I am laid off I might have to get a lawyer and sue the UAW as I bet so would many other members. I have never seen happen what you just stated . Maybe a few people like I said but as far as a whole shift working like TPTs while Full timers are laid off????? Like I said NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

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14 hours ago, cecilmeyer said:

I do not believe that for one minute.So you mean to say that if they cut a shift they can man a shift they bring back shift with people with little or no seniority? They might be able to pull a a few people with lower seniority because of a classification but only for the launch. You better believe with someone with over 30 years as myself if they have somebody with 5 years working full time while I am laid off I might have to get a lawyer and sue the UAW as I bet so would many other members. I have never seen happen what you just stated . Maybe a few people like I said but as far as a whole shift working like TPTs while Full timers are laid off????? Like I said NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

"Maybe a few people like I said but as far as a whole shift working like TPTs while Full timers are laid off?????"  Sounds like Cecil is stirring sheep shit.  "Get a Lawyer" "Sue the UAW"  what ya running for Cece?

 Did anyone say CAP was cutting a shift? Cecil "if" you have "30" years? maybe sit down an open the book for the first time. Try this, look at "work available", "classifications" and "right to assign". Then look at the language that every contract has, "if this or if that then this or that supersedes that article, section or agreement". But I do agree that if you are running in the next political circus you will have a bushel basket full of sheep shit to spin into the "I heard, Someone said or the ever popular They this or that..."

 For what its worth, prior too and during the March retooling, there will be production members working while others are not. It will start in Body and proceed to Paint then to Final each of these starting points will be after the prior. When final has completed the exiting of their last unit, Body will likely start their system fill. when Pre Delivery completes its last unit then inventory reduction will start. At that point Paint most likely will start its system fill. etc. etc. etc.... As for pre delivery it is common practice to work all types of overtime till the last unit gets into transport hands. That end of the plant may require all departments repair classified members to move to pre delivery instead of being laid off with their departments till is happens.

 Then there is the little thing that Cec isn`t bring out, "orders". With the U502 topping the hit parade in sales currently, marketing is going crazy trying to fill orders for all the U502 models. So the survey is out there Cecil for two shifts of production during the holiday. I know... "see he said "two" shifts we are losing the C crew, I told you"  calm down Cec everyone will be surveyed "ALL 3 CREWS" wanna bet how many say no?  The company only see`s one thing, money/orders, with that said everything that is being stated about cutting off the 2019 MY is going to be hard to take for the company, so it`s going to be squeeze every last 2019 MY out at all costs. Now for the 2020MY Cec take a stroll down the way and grab a look at a unit that is already being order for 2020 police units and has a projected 10 to 15 percent increase in orders already for it first year of production.

 If its Cecil that will be the next chairperson... big deal. People realize one thing, CAP is building one of the most profitable units with the least labor coats in CAP history  annnnd.....

                                                                                              "CAN`T MAKE ENOUGH OF THEM WITH THREE CREWS"

                           Hey Cec, that's "42" years of listening and reading..... (ps Cec if you do become the next chairperson, I`m easy time find :hat_tip:)

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Just now, Decker said:

"Maybe a few people like I said but as far as a whole shift working like TPTs while Full timers are laid off?????"  Sounds like Cecil is stirring sheep shit.  "Get a Lawyer" "Sue the UAW"  what ya running for Cece?

 Did anyone say CAP was cutting a shift? Cecil "if" you have "30" years? maybe sit down an open the book for the first time. Try this, look at "work available", "classifications" and "right to assign". Then look at the language that every contract has, "if this or if that then this or that supersedes that article, section or agreement". But I do agree that if you are running in the next political circus you will have a bushel basket full of sheep shit to spin into the "I heard, Someone said or the ever popular They this or that..."

 For what its worth, prior too and during the March retooling, there will be production members working while others are not. It will start in Body and proceed to Paint then to Final each of these starting points will be after the prior. When final has completed the exiting of their last unit, Body will likely start their system fill. when Pre Delivery completes its last unit then inventory reduction will start. At that point Paint most likely will start its system fill. etc. etc. etc.... As for pre delivery it is common practice to work all types of overtime till the last unit gets into transport hands. That end of the plant may require all departments repair classified members to move to pre delivery instead of being laid off with their departments till is happens.

 Then there is the little thing that Cec isn`t bring out, "orders". With the U502 topping the hit parade in sales currently, marketing is going crazy trying to fill orders for all the U502 models. So the survey is out there Cecil for two shifts of production during the holiday. I know... "see he said "two" shifts we are losing the C crew, I told you"  calm down Cec everyone will be surveyed "ALL 3 CREWS" wanna bet how many say no?  The company only see`s one thing, money/orders, with that said everything that is being stated about cutting off the 2019 MY is going to be hard to take for the company, so it`s going to be squeeze every last 2019 MY out at all costs. Now for the 2020MY Cec take a stroll down the way and grab a look at a unit that is already being order for 2020 police units and has a projected 10 to 15 percent increase in orders already for it first year of production.

 If its Cecil that will be the next chairperson... big deal. People realize one thing, CAP is building one of the most profitable units with the least labor coats in CAP history  annnnd.....

                                                                                              "CAN`T MAKE ENOUGH OF THEM WITH THREE CREWS"

                           Hey Cec, that's "42" years of listening and reading..... (ps Cec if you do become the next chairperson, I`m easy time find :hat_tip:)

Cece is not stirring anything up. Where did I say we were loosing a shift? I said you cannot just pass over people with seniority for any extended time like when they cut a shift at ANY UAW facility. Open the book for the first time?? Listen you do not have to be such a wise ass all the time on this forum .I read the contract more than you think that is why when management is busy screwing me over I get the contract book out research it then go to my Union Rep and notify my Rep what is going on. About CAP having one of the most profitable units .St Louis built the Explorer,Aviator, Mountaineer and that plant was shut down. You on here preaching your propaganda about how safe CAP is LISTEN up Ole wise one Ford will shut a plant down profitable or not and move the production to another facility maybe even Mexico or China. So if you or anyone thinks we have Ford where we want them or we are irreplaceable think again. In this day of wonderful free trade and Nafta our days are numbered if the trade laws do not change. And lastly running for what????? You are the one who likes being a Union Rep not me. News Flash I am running alright ....right for the door the minute they throw me a good bone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Why would anyone want to run for Union Rep?, that's the only reason we have the reps we do cause no one else wants it. Try voting them out and it gets rigged, but that's cool it'll give something the feds can sort out over summer. 

Cece nothing to worry about, look at GM. Who was the last to know? UAW lol. Anything they are saying now you can't take serious cause they won't know, they just speculate and try to sound like they know wtf they're talking about. They're going to need all the solidarity they can get next year. Lets see what happens with Lear this week. 

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7 hours ago, cecilmeyer said:

Cece is not stirring anything up. Where did I say we were loosing a shift? I said you cannot just pass over people with seniority for any extended time like when they cut a shift at ANY UAW facility. Open the book for the first time?? Listen you do not have to be such a wise ass all the time on this forum .I read the contract more than you think that is why when management is busy screwing me over I get the contract book out research it then go to my Union Rep and notify my Rep what is going on. About CAP having one of the most profitable units .St Louis built the Explorer,Aviator, Mountaineer and that plant was shut down. You on here preaching your propaganda about how safe CAP is LISTEN up Ole wise one Ford will shut a plant down profitable or not and move the production to another facility maybe even Mexico or China. So if you or anyone thinks we have Ford where we want them or we are irreplaceable think again. In this day of wonderful free trade and Nafta our days are numbered if the trade laws do not change. And lastly running for what????? You are the one who likes being a Union Rep not me. News Flash I am running alright ....right for the door the minute they throw me a good bone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok now I have a clearer understanding. 

Unfortunately for me I`ve been around for so long that hearing (reading) about members speaking about politics and stating how seniority should work,   ("oh this will look great as an election follows, imagine how many legacy are going to blow a gasket if they find out joe shmoe with 5 yr is called back to work before someone with 15yr"), gives thought of all the past political circuses at CAP.

Then with, ("I do not believe that for one minute. So you mean to say that if they cut a shift they can man a shift they bring back shift with people with little or no seniority?") you will have to excuse my wise ass understanding of your generalization. 

Now to clarify my responses to "CAP Retooling/Upgrading" the plant will push out units in each department then construction will begin. As for legacy not working while non legacy work, its going to happen. Will all members be laid off for the complete/entire retooling schedule, not likely. Will there be production members working the complete/entire retooling schedule,  most likely. Now let me put away my wise ass attitude in its box.

CAP is safe as long as the sales are there, that goes for any facility. The membership is safe for the same reason.  As for your statement "Ford will shut a plant down profitable or not" I agree completely, Norfolk comes to mind....proves Ford screws up. Are you from St. Louis Cecil? I have a lot of close friends that came from St. Louis and I have come to an understanding of what a ruff transaction that was. But, Cecil if you did come from St. Louis or not but have 30 in, you do have Ford where you want them. Cecil 30 years makes you legacy too... worrying about past plant closings shouldn`t be in your future.

Cec, I hope you get the good bone you are hoping for. (sorry that wise ass just snuck out) 

 

 

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People (Ford employees) need to take off their blue colored glasses and realize while GM was fucking around and begging congress for a bailout and going bankrupt anyway, Ford actually closed the amount of plants they needed to. I understand that's a painful concept for Union membership but that also means that Ford is NOT in the same position GM is in where they have way more plant capacity than they need and should have probably announce they are closing at least 2 more on top of what they announced this week. 

 

I dont agree with most of the cost cutting bullshit management has been doing but I also know that Ford is in no position to be closing plants right now. Especially with a major product blitz in the pipeline for the next 2-4 years. 

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22 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

People (Ford employees) need to take off their blue colored glasses and realize while GM was fucking around and begging congress for a bailout and going bankrupt anyway, Ford actually closed the amount of plants they needed to. I understand that's a painful concept for Union membership but that also means that Ford is NOT in the same position GM is in where they have way more plant capacity than they need and should have probably announce they are closing at least 2 more on top of what they announced this week. 

 

I dont agree with most of the cost cutting bullshit management has been doing but I also know that Ford is in no position to be closing plants right now. Especially with a major product blitz in the pipeline for the next 2-4 years. 

only comparing GM to Ford as far as communicating with the union on their plans to cut cost, reps are running around like everything is ok like the reps at gm 6 weeks ago. They got blind sided. As far as Ford's plans to cut cost they haven't given much details only enough so that workers aren't freaking out because of how GM's handling their cuts. I don't think they'll close plants but I'll bet on some lay offs, CAP needs it got too many walking around doing nothing with no seniority. Kill that C crew BS go back to 5 days. We can handle 2 vehicles with 2 shifts put those union reps back on the line too make their asses work for a change they spend too much time smelling what management had for lunch.

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Hey Da Bears are looking like contenders and ya still got the best pizza!Whattaya want,seniority rights?Seniority has been diluted over the years of 'give-back contracts'.I don't understand all the particulars of what is happening but how does it make business sense for Ford to train all the lower seniority employees when Ford must still lay-off by seniority?Or at least I hope the company cant just pick and choose who they lay off.

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14 hours ago, Decker said:

Ok now I have a clearer understanding. 

Unfortunately for me I`ve been around for so long that hearing (reading) about members speaking about politics and stating how seniority should work,   ("oh this will look great as an election follows, imagine how many legacy are going to blow a gasket if they find out joe shmoe with 5 yr is called back to work before someone with 15yr"), gives thought of all the past political circuses at CAP.

Then with, ("I do not believe that for one minute. So you mean to say that if they cut a shift they can man a shift they bring back shift with people with little or no seniority?") you will have to excuse my wise ass understanding of your generalization. 

Now to clarify my responses to "CAP Retooling/Upgrading" the plant will push out units in each department then construction will begin. As for legacy not working while non legacy work, its going to happen. Will all members be laid off for the complete/entire retooling schedule, not likely. Will there be production members working the complete/entire retooling schedule,  most likely. Now let me put away my wise ass attitude in its box.

CAP is safe as long as the sales are there, that goes for any facility. The membership is safe for the same reason.  As for your statement "Ford will shut a plant down profitable or not" I agree completely, Norfolk comes to mind....proves Ford screws up. Are you from St. Louis Cecil? I have a lot of close friends that came from St. Louis and I have come to an understanding of what a ruff transaction that was. But, Cecil if you did come from St. Louis or not but have 30 in, you do have Ford where you want them. Cecil 30 years makes you legacy too... worrying about past plant closings shouldn`t be in your future.

Cec, I hope you get the good bone you are hoping for. (sorry that wise ass just snuck out) 

 

 

No problem Decker. I just know how Ford has treated us the past few contracts and I am pretty skeptical of them returning anything they have stolen from us or treating us fairly. I hope for the best but plan for the worst! You much enjoy being a Union Rep because I do not think I could deal with it Lol!. To answer your question yes I am from St louis and am ready to go home. Hopefully Ill get paroled and one of the younger workers will not get laid off or Ford will hire another person to replace me!!!!!!!!!!

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I heard that a lot Cecil, both the going home part and how we have been short changed in the last 4 or 5 contract. Then the last 2 or 3 contracts with all the planned division of the members by the company and either the ....sell out or complete less than intelligent pushing for this tier shit. Then I know working is better than not but being made into a migrant work force is something there should be laws against. Fuzzy has been back and forth so many times from this plant and that plant he knows first hand about moviing and being screwed over with the TPT shit. So I do have  compassion for our membership that had to make a choice of job or home and family. I do hope the bone is big enough and the trip home is soon. I really hope the IUAW pulls their heads out of their asses and strikes to get rid of the this bullshit tier crap. 

Cecil, for the record I couldn’t be a politician, the smile and lie wasn’t me sooo I did my term, helped as many members as I could thru that Great Recession and continue to help members to this day but... I’m not a rep. 

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Let me clarify 2 things for you Decker. Fortunately all the shuffling of plants I've had to do I've never had to move out of the area, though I did move to make room for a growing family. 

Every forced transfer I've had to take was while I was a seniority employee. I wasn't LTS for longer than 6 months before I was lucky enough to get hired in as full time seniority. I've yet to see any benefit to being seniority other than the upgraded health care and 401k. 

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Just now, Decker said:

I heard that a lot Cecil, both the going home part and how we have been short changed in the last 4 or 5 contract. Then the last 2 or 3 contracts with all the planned division of the members by the company and either the ....sell out or complete less than intelligent pushing for this tier shit. Then I know working is better than not but being made into a migrant work force is something there should be laws against. Fuzzy has been back and forth so many times from this plant and that plant he knows first hand about moviing and being screwed over with the TPT shit. So I do have  compassion for our membership that had to make a choice of job or home and family. I do hope the bone is big enough and the trip home is soon. I really hope the IUAW pulls their heads out of their asses and strikes to get rid of the this bullshit tier crap. 

Cecil, for the record I couldn’t be a politician, the smile and lie wasn’t me sooo I did my term, helped as many members as I could thru that Great Recession and continue to help members to this day but... I’m not a rep. 

Sorry Deck I thought you still were a Barg rep. At least your job has less stress now!!!

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3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

And to the first person who tells me to shut up and get some seniority, Fuck you. 

 

Kind of hard to do so when you work at a plant that hasn't hired anyone permanently in almost 6 years, and won't be doing so for at least another 2. 

Thanks Fuzzy, I remember when you were doing the this plant, that plant stuff and wasn`t sure how long the LTS lasted.

Here at CAP members went years without becoming full time and now we have members that can`t find much benefits with entry level or in progression status. Oh you can put a bid on a posting but all entry level or in progression get is to work in an area or on an operation but that's where it drops off because there`s no increase in pay and they keep their entry level or in progression classification while doing a designated or undesignated operation.

I`m really wondering how the company and IUAW ever thought having so many people with the same classification was going to work out. Then there can be 100 or 125 entry level people roll into the in progression classification all with the same classification and seniority date.  If there ever happens to be a reduction in force that will get real interesting for sure.  

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