2020 Lincoln Aviator Debuts

[jasonj80]

52 minutes ago, akirby said:

I'd settle for it just updating the displayed speed limit on the IP when navigation is out of date. 

But yes - adaptive cruise with the ability to set a certain speed above the posted limit would be nice.

The one issue I have with some of the camera systems that look at both is that it reads all speed limit signs. If there is a school zone with times it will display 25 mph or in a construction zone a 35 mph when flashing sign will always show 35mph. It will also pickup "Truck" speed limits and say the speed is 55/60. Not a big deal when a driver is looking but is when the computer is making the decisions and the driver is oblivious. 

Edited November 29, 2018 by jasonj80

[akirby]

16 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

The one issue I have with some of the camera systems that look at both is that it reads all speed limit signs. If there is a school zone with times it will display 25 mph or in a construction zone a 35 mph when flashing sign will always show 35mph. It will also pickup "Truck" speed limits and say the speed is 55/60. Not a big deal when a driver is looking but is when the computer is making the decisions and the driver is oblivious. 

Half the drivers on the road today are oblivious.

[LSchicago]

2 minutes ago, akirby said:

Half the drivers on the road today are oblivious.

I think you are generous with that number.

[akirby]

31 minutes ago, LSchicago said:

Yes, I have a 18 GT. I heard the battery on the Aviator hybrid is very small. 

It's not a battery it's a battery pack and it's not small.  As stated it should provide 50 km (31 miles) of EV driving range.

[LSchicago]

14 minutes ago, akirby said:

It's not a battery it's a battery pack and it's not small.  As stated it should provide 50 km (31 miles) of EV driving range.

It's not huge like a Tesla. I know it would require compromise, but I think if reconfigured it still could work. 

[Assimilator]

The Hybrid system is intended to offer only benefits, zero compromise to space or amenities.  Lincoln doesn't even want you to think of this as a Hybrid, they specifically call this "Grand Touring", suggesting it's primarily a performance upgrade.  Their entire approach is perfect, first Hybrid I actually want and would pay more for.

The new Mustang is much further out than 2020, should be here around 2022.  It should be arriving alongside the new F-150 as well.  Ford scrapped plans to develop cars on CD6 which doomed the Continental program alongside the Mustang, but they will be sharing many systems and modules.  Ford generalizes this approach as "architectures" which is a somewhat optimistic characterization suggesting a flexible platform which is not what's actually happening.  The next Mustang is an update of the current platform but you also have to remember that Mustang, CD4 and CD6 share many systems already, especially the suspension.

Edited November 29, 2018 by Assimilator

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, CurtisH said:

That doesn’t sound right.  I thought S550 was essentially a heavily modified S197 platform.  They kept many (most?) of the S197’s hard points. 

Exactly-I know some parts of the CD4 where incorporated on it-I'll assume like wiring harnesses etc that wouldn't be a major issue. 

But to make a FWD into  RWD product on the same platform without it being designed as such would be a money pit that Ford didn't need to do.

 

[msm859]

45 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

The Hybrid system is intended to offer only benefits, zero compromise to space or amenities.  Lincoln doesn't even want you to think of this as a Hybrid, they specifically call this "Grand Touring", suggesting it's primarily a performance upgrade.  Their entire approach is perfect, first Hybrid I actually want and would pay more for.......

Except to be a world car it has to go at least 50km on electric only.  Which means the battery has to be large enough AND the motor powerful enough to have meaningful acceleration in electric mode only.  That is the big question remaining.  The "Grand Touring" designation sounds like a great marketing scheme - some people are politically disinclined to support a "hybrid/electric" car.  I suspect the Grand Touring will also come with other options or standard equipment further differentiating itself from the "base" model.

 

[Torrey61]

Just noticed the rear wiper is hidden at the top of the rear windshield. Standards!!!! 

[Assimilator]

The next Mustang (S650) is 2022, so we should see it in 2021.

CD6 is poised to be a fairly under-utilized platform, I actually don't know any other vehicles being developed on it besides Explorer and Aviator.  For that reason it's actually remarkable it exists at all.  I think this one might have slipped through and I think it was justified for Lincoln vehicles which appear to have been dropped at this point.  Edge and Nautilus are still on FWD architectures for 2023.  I was hoping Nautilus would go its own way on CD6.  The Mach1 team is not working on a Lincoln version at all at this point either.

I'm still very foggy on Lincoln, I have info on their new utilities through 2023 (including one that was suppose to be imported from China in 2023).  Lincoln's product load looks suspiciously light, but I hope they are developing stuff I can't see yet.  I know the tariffs have thrown their Chinese plans into turmoil.

The dealers seem to be getting some details I can't find anywhere else.  Specifically that they are going to produce a stretched 80th Anniversary Continental with suicide doors, limited run of 85 units (originally it was 250).  They've also been teasing design sketches of what appeared to be a sedan, but I looked at that presentation and it didn't confirm new sedans.  The follow-up presentation stopped referencing those design altogether. Joy talks about 4 New utilities, 3 of which I can identify as the Aviator, Corsair, and the 2023 compact utility intended for Chinese import.  

 

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Assimilator

[fuzzymoomoo]

Sounds like there could be some skunk works type stuff going on at Lincoln 

[Gurgeh]

36 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

CD6 is poised to be a fairly under-utilized platform, I actually don't know any other vehicles being developed on it besides Explorer and Aviator.  For that reason it's actually remarkable it exists at all.  I think this one might have slipped through and I think it was justified for Lincoln vehicles which appear to have been dropped at this point.  Edge and Nautilus are still on FWD architectures for 2023.  I was hoping Nautilus would go its own way on CD6.  The Mach1 team is not working on a Lincoln version at all at this point either.

 

Dang, I was hoping that for the 2023 redesign Edge/Nautilus would move over to RWD-biased AWD, like the Explorer/Aviator (as I was thinking of moving over to the redesigned Naut when it comes out). ...and I guess the rumors about a Lincoln version of the Mach1 isn't right. Still, Lincoln (and Ford) executives have been hinting about there being something else out there that will surprise us. We'll see...

[Assimilator]

Information gets more and more detailed as we go.  I find it hard to believe Lincoln won't take advantage of Mach1, but Lincoln may have other plans for EVs using the same architecture. 

[DequindreToo]

1 hour ago, Assimilator said:

The next Mustang (S650) is 2022, so we should see it in 2021.

CD6 is poised to be a fairly under-utilized platform, I actually don't know any other vehicles being developed on it besides Explorer and Aviator.  For that reason it's actually remarkable it exists at all.  I think this one might have slipped through and I think it was justified for Lincoln vehicles which appear to have been dropped at this point.  Edge and Nautilus are still on FWD architectures for 2023.  I was hoping Nautilus would go its own way on CD6.  The Mach1 team is not working on a Lincoln version at all at this point either.

I'm still very foggy on Lincoln, I have info on their new utilities through 2023 (including one that was suppose to be imported from China in 2023).  Lincoln's product load looks suspiciously light, but I hope they are developing stuff I can't see yet.  I know the tariffs have thrown their Chinese plans into turmoil.

 The dealers seem to be getting some details I can't find anywhere else.  Specifically that they are going to produce a stretched 80th Anniversary Continental with suicide doors, limited run of 85 units (originally it was 250).  They've also been teasing design sketches of what appeared to be a sedan, but I looked at that presentation and it didn't confirm new sedans.  The follow-up presentation stopped referencing those design altogether. Joy talks about 4 New utilities, 3 of which I can identify as the Aviator, Corsair, and the 2023 compact utility intended for Chinese import.  

 

 

Will Lincoln be an exclusively utility/SUV/CUV brand by within the next decade? If so, I imagine they'd need some of those rumored "white space" vehicles to keep the lineup interesting. 

[Assimilator]

I will admit I am a little concerned that CD6 utilities are a little on the niche side of the spectrum, especially since they are packaged to be so low (not to mention standard RWD).   Very few premium 3-row utilities are taking this approach as people generally prefer taller views in their utilities.  This is probably a bigger concern for Explorer customers than Aviator.  I put that out there only because I've had this skepticism for years but I can't help but be excited by the striking design and technology.  But I have to be realistic because I think there is some risk to what Ford has done to Explorer, even if they have other options which offer other extremes.  I'm just curious to see how the market responds and what kind of influence this Explorer has.  Durango isn't exactly booming.  Ford has long been preoccupied with low-slung wagon-like 3-row utilities for some reason, I'm sure they have justifications for it but they've never thrived like their typical SUVs.  New Explorer seems to bridge the gap perhaps a little too far in the wrong direction.    

 

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Assimilator

[fuzzymoomoo]

17 minutes ago, Assimilator said:

I will admit I am a little concerned that CD6 utilities are a little on the niche side of the spectrum, especially since they are packaged to be so low (not to mention standard RWD).   Very few premium 3-row utilities are taking this approach as people generally prefer taller views in their utilities.  This is probably a bigger concern for Explorer customers than Aviator.  I put that out there only because I've had this skepticism for years but I can't help but be excited by the striking design and technology.  But I have to be realistic because I think there is some risk to what Ford has done to Explorer, even if they have other options which offer other extremes.  I'm just curious to see how the market responds and what kind of influence this Explorer has.  Durango isn't exactly booming.  Ford has long been preoccupied with low-slung wagon-like 3-row utilities for some reason, I'm sure they have justifications for it but they've never thrived like their typical SUVs.  New Explorer seems to bridge the gap perhaps a little too far in the wrong direction.    

 

 

I appreciate what you've been telling us lately, but why don't you let the market decide if it's the wrong direction or not?

[Assimilator]

It's just a little caution, I've been watching this industry for decades and I can't help but analyze and extrapolate trends.   

[Assimilator]

Here is a good video on the Aviator, certainly the best tour of it I've seen.  It raises concerns for me about the 3rd row seat which looks pretty cramped, especially for the segment.  The hip-point is very low so you sit lower to the ground than the middle row, likely to accommodate the striking profile and low roofline.  If that's the packaging in Explorer, that might put it at a disadvantage.  

 

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Assimilator

[Twin Turbo]

Given CD6 appears to be just Aviator/Explorer/Mustang.........is seems crazy that Lincoln wouldn't offer a Mustang variant. Would the market support it? Perhaps not, but given Lincoln's current superb design and quality, the prospect of a high-end Lincoln coupe makes my mouth water. I suspect it'll be just another "what could have been"

[Anthony]

That video above from Redline was good.  The gentleman who was narrating it mentioned he was 5'7" and he could practically look OVER the Aviator when he was standing behind it.  Does it really sit that low?  @Assimilator mentioned above that it is a bit more low-slung than the rest of the segment.  I'm curious to see this in person.

 

[MY93SHO]

2 hours ago, Anthony said:

That video above from Redline was good.  The gentleman who was narrating it mentioned he was 5'7" and he could practically look OVER the Aviator when he was standing behind it.  Does it really sit that low?  @Assimilator mentioned above that it is a bit more low-slung than the rest of the segment.  I'm curious to see this in person.

 

If it has the air suspension it lowers down for entry/ exit. 

[akirby]

4 hours ago, Twin Turbo said:

Given CD6 appears to be just Aviator/Explorer/Mustang.........is seems crazy that Lincoln wouldn't offer a Mustang variant. Would the market support it? Perhaps not, but given Lincoln's current superb design and quality, the prospect of a high-end Lincoln coupe makes my mouth water. I suspect it'll be just another "what could have been"

A Lincstang has been planned for awhile now but it sounds like they may have cut the CD6 sedan programs to fund utilities and other things.

This is the frustrating thing with Ford - they finally come out with something great then they either let it rot on the vine or they scale it back due to cost cutting or resource priorities.

[tzach]

From my eye it looks like a lot of the new utilities from  everyone looks to be lower and longer.  Ironically turning into wagons and improving handling over taller utilities.  

[fuzzymoomoo]

5 minutes ago, akirby said:

A Lincstang has been planned for awhile now but it sounds like they may have cut the CD6 sedan programs to fund utilities and other things.

This is the frustrating thing with Ford - they finally come out with something great then they either let it rot on the vine or they scale it back due to cost cutting or resource priorities.

I was talking with my wife about that yesterday. It seems the only thing Ford consistently puts 100% effort into is tricks. There's not much else they do that's class leading and it's been that way for decades. 

Even with our Fusion. It's a fantastic car and we really love it but the only thing class leading about it is arguably SYNC 3. 

[brucelinc]

37 minutes ago, akirby said:

A Lincstang has been planned for awhile now but it sounds like they may have cut the CD6 sedan programs to fund utilities and other things.

This is the frustrating thing with Ford - they finally come out with something great then they either let it rot on the vine or they scale it back due to cost cutting or resource priorities.

Exactly.    We now are moving in the right direction with platform,  powertrains, interiors, tech and features.   I would give up a non essential body part if they would offer a sedan or coupe with these things.