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October 2018 Sales


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Lincolns problems are multi-faceted: momentum, engineering, design, marketing, messaging, pedigree, expertise, brand equity, funding, confidence, consumer research, etc.

 

Lincoln is working with a shoe-string budget with a tiny development team . It's hard not to see the compromise or the inconsistency from a corporate parent in constant turmoil. I think Lincoln is making decent products but they are nowhere near the cultural phenomenon they need to be to rise above decades of brand weakness and intermittent neglect. And more importantly, Lincoln is still learning how to make cars and address their market and I'm not sure Ford has the expertise, funding, or interest to continue this unyielding experiment. Lincoln may be moving too slowly to find momentum, no matter what's ahead, they are just going to stay where they are unless they do something that stands out. Right now Lincoln is measured by how much better they are than they were, but they never measure up favorably to the market. Navigator has been and remains the only exception, but that never extends to the rest of the brand.

 

Well, it does seem as though that'll extend to Aviator. Hopefully the same can be said of Corsair. As Cadillac shows, it's going to take years, decades even, of consistent product and improvements. A splashy "wow, that's a Lincoln" type car would certainly help get the brand some attention.....I think a lot of the brand's problem is that it's latest products are invisible - not because they're boring (though some would say they are), but Lincoln just isn't on the radar to have seen their current group of products and see how good they are.

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Yes, East West Lincoln.

 

Thank you Gurgeh sir. I work in Washington, D.C. a couple weeks every month and stay at a hotel in New Carrollton. If I take a long walk from New Carrollton train station to the hotel, I pass by East West Lincoln. The local Ford dealership is about mile up the road. The Ford dealership is owned by a different company (Darcars).

 

East West Lincoln is very nice. I stopped by that dealership once when they had an open house. They may not be huge in terms of showroom square feet or number of new vehicles on their lot. But the sales and service people who work there are probably the best I've met at a car dealership. They really know how to take good care of their customers. One of my buddies who works at the Darcars Ford service department says that he hopes to transfer to East West Lincoln in a couple years.

Edited by rperez817
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Talking to the Lincoln dealership here in SD about sales of the Continental and Navigator, he concluded that though customers LOVED the Continental, it was hard to move from lots because of its price point. He said "Once you start getting into $70k or $80k, customers start to look at other options and comparing the Continental to those often doesn't end well for the Lincoln." Not that it's not a nice vehicle but if you had $80k for a car, the Continental wouldn't be at the top of a lot of our list. He also said what everyone else has been saying about the Navigator, which is that they aren't getting a lot of them from Lincoln regardless of how many they want to order, but they ones they do get sell quick, some being sold before they even reach the dealer.

 

I can personally attest to the fact that since the new Navigator has been on sale, I have only seen 2 on their lot and each siting was months in between each other.

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Talking to the Lincoln dealership here in SD about sales of the Continental and Navigator, he concluded that though customers LOVED the Continental, it was hard to move from lots because of its price point. He said "Once you start getting into $70k or $80k, customers start to look at other options and comparing the Continental to those often doesn't end well for the Lincoln." Not that it's not a nice vehicle but if you had $80k for a car, the Continental wouldn't be at the top of a lot of our list. He also said what everyone else has been saying about the Navigator, which is that they aren't getting a lot of them from Lincoln regardless of how many they want to order, but they ones they do get sell quick, some being sold before they even reach the dealer.

 

I can personally attest to the fact that since the new Navigator has been on sale, I have only seen 2 on their lot and each siting was months in between each other.

 

Other than driving past a local Lincoln Dealer a few times, I've only recently passed a Continental on the road and saw one that was parked near me at a strip shopping mall. From a distance on the road the Continental front end isn't all that different from a Jaguar and looking at the Continental up close in the parking lot left me totally underwhelmed. It may look good in the promotional photos but in person there's absolutely nothing distinctive, stylish or luxurious. The Lincoln Dealer is a joint Lincoln-Jaguar dealership and the Jaguar franchise was just bought by a large auto group that owns about a dozen franchises.

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I still think that Ford's Titanium range is supplanting the need for a range of Lincolns,

the fact that Ford still invests in Lincoln products gives us hope that improved products

will bring more sales but what if that is equally true of Ford's new high series products?

 

I think that the prices Ford is charging for a well appointed Titanium versus entry Lincoln versus Black Label version

is really trying the patience of potential buyers, I've heard that Black Labels makes up less than 20% of Lincoln sales.

Edited by jpd80
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Other than driving past a local Lincoln Dealer a few times, I've only recently passed a Continental on the road and saw one that was parked near me at a strip shopping mall. From a distance on the road the Continental front end isn't all that different from a Jaguar and looking at the Continental up close in the parking lot left me totally underwhelmed. It may look good in the promotional photos but in person there's absolutely nothing distinctive, stylish or luxurious. The Lincoln Dealer is a joint Lincoln-Jaguar dealership and the Jaguar franchise was just bought by a large auto group that owns about a dozen franchises.

 

Yeah, the problem with Continental is that it lost all the presence that the concept car had. The design was similar, but the proportions were changed, and that significantly dulled down the car, to where, while it does look nice, it doesn't demand your attention the way other large cars do.

 

I still think that Ford's Titanium range is supplanting the need for a range of Lincolns,

the fact that Ford still invests in Lincoln products gives us hope that improved products

will bring more sales but what if that is equally true of Ford's new high series products?

 

I think that the prices Ford is charging for a well appointed Titanium versus entry Lincoln versus Black Label version

is really trying the patience of potential buyers, I've heard that Black Labels makes up less than 20% of Lincoln sales.

 

I don't understand what this means.

 

---

 

Bottom line is this - if they want to have a slice of the profitable luxury market, they have to stick with Lincoln and push it upward and MAKE people pay attention to the brand. That will be done through well executed, unique and stylish products. Those take time. I think Navigator was a giant step forward (from an image standpoint, putting Lincoln back on the map), and Aviator will take another big step. They need an attention getting "Mach 2" with concept car-like styling for production.

 

Fancy Fords, while yes, will be profitable, simply can't push as high as Lincoln should be able to, outside of the trucks.

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Now Lincoln has sales in China, maybe some models are easier to manage for refreshes, have China

pay for the refreshes for MKZ, Corsair and Nautilus while Nth America get a free hand with the RWDs.

 

Navigator and Aviator are a great start but the Corsair and Nautilus are really comb-overs of older models,

waiting for Ford product cycles dampens interest in waiting for new Lincoln products...it did with the Chinese.

 

Want a laugh:

 

VEHICLE.............................Oct '18.............Oct '17.........YTD '18.............YTD '17
ATS ........................................330....... ............929...............10,358............11 ,176
CT6 ........................................773....... ............796.................8,043............. 8,924
CTS ........................................824....... ............779.................9,601............. 8,883
ELR ............................................0...... .................0........................1........ ...........17
XTS .....................................2,120........ .........2,190..............14,784............13, 113
Total Cadillac car .................4,047.................4,694.... .........42,787.............42,113
Escalade .............................1,733............... ..2,079..............20,230.............17,895
Escalade ESV .....................1,121.................1,196.................9,923.............11,815
SRX ...........................................0....... .................1........................6......... .......153
XT4 ............................................0....... .................0....................212.......... ..........0
XT5 ......................................4,397........ ..........5,961.............51,380...........55 ,801
Total Cadillac truck ..............7,251...................9,237..............81,751............85,664
Total Cadillac .....................11,298.................13,93 1...........124,538..........127,777

Edited by jpd80
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If you throw a dead canary into a coal mine, and it does not come back to life, that does not mean the mine is unsafe.

Luxury vehicles tend to be the first litmus test that the economy is running out of steam, those Caddy and Lincoln buyers are

going over to other lux brands with more aggressive deals on finance and leasing (doesn't mean the Germans are safe either.)

 

Large truck sales look to be leveling off but the proof will be 1) winter / fleet sales and 2) early spring recovery / retail sales.

People never want to hear that certain market segments may be getting full...

Edited by jpd80
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If you throw a dead canary into a coal mine, and it does not come back to life, that does not mean the mine is unsafe.

 

Whether or not this is applicable to the sales or not, this is an excellent response. I will hereby steal this and look forward to an opportunity to use it! Thanks Sully!

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