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Amid unease, dealers get clearest look yet at Ford's restructuring plan

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I was going to say that didnt sound right...Wonder what the hell it is then. I'd assume one of them is the Mach 1, but that would be BEV and not HEV or whatever else is there.

Yeah, I don't know what that other stuff is other than obviously the Mach 1 being C727, but I think that's wrong too unless theyre doing a plug in Hybrid version of it which I guess would be breaking news.

 

Jpd, where did you find that?

Edited by fuzzymoomoo

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Yeah, I don't know what that other stuff is other than obviously the Mach 1 being C727, but I think that's wrong too unless theyre doing a plug in Hybrid version of it which I guess would be breaking news.

 

Jpd, where did you find that?

It was posted over on FIN July last year and based on a list from Jan 2017, so lots of things have probably changed.

I thought it best to post it here incase someone has more recent details on vehicles going to Cuautitlan.

Pretty sure that Assimilator has been aware of it for a long time and I'm hoping he's sniffed out newer leads.

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That’s always a risk with any new business venture. But there was also a good chance that business could have continued for several years and had you not attempted it you would have missed out on millions in profit. Ideally you do both but sometimes you can’t. That’s the problem Ford has now - they can’t do all the new stuff that they think will make them competitive in the future and keep making cars. Time will tell if it was the right decision.

 

The bottom line is: there are risks involved no matter what path is taken. Sometimes you come to a fork in the road, and have to pick a direction. Ford chose their direction (dropping sedans....IMO, for now until they get plants, etc. straightened out), and they'll have to live with the consequences of that decision - whether good or bad - both now and in the future. As you said, only time will tell if it was a good call or not.

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I suspect we'll see a situation where there's more production space than expected.....

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I suspect we'll see a situation where there's more production space than expected.....

 

Meaning not selling enough? Or expansion?

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Meaning not selling enough? Or expansion?

 

Can't speak for jpd80, but within a couple of years we'll likey be in a recession. Ford, of course, can't just plan for the next quarter or next year, but has to plan through the business cycle. They are making a bet, and I think it is a decent bet for now (if there's a recession and overall vehicle demand drops, they ironically will have the excess capacity to do more with sedans if suddenly the car market revives), but not one without risk.

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Certainly not in Mexico with Baby Bronco, Escape/MKC overflow, a new trucklet and Ecosport or Ecosport replacement. And future Focus models. Is Mach 1 going to Mexico now or Flat Rock?

 

CAP is going to be maxed out with Explorer, Aviator and PIUs.

 

MAP will have some capacity but no other unibody trucks to share it with.

 

Flat Rock is an unknown until we see what Lincoln is doing and the new projects.

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I think the bigger risk for Ford based on past history is if they start with all these grand plans that sound great on paper (financially speaking) but then they don’t follow through with them completely or they water them down to the point they lose sight of the original objective.

 

Or they go into Fields’ mode and delay or cancel the new projects before they’re completed. Or change direction again.

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Flat Rock is an unknown until we see what Lincoln is doing and the new projects.

I thought it was going to get the transit connect, since the BEV/AV vehicle was going to be built/upfitted in the new buildings there.

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Certainly not in Mexico with Baby Bronco, Escape/MKC overflow, a new trucklet and Ecosport or Ecosport replacement. And future Focus models. Is Mach 1 going to Mexico now or Flat Rock?

 

CAP is going to be maxed out with Explorer, Aviator and PIUs.

 

MAP will have some capacity but no other unibody trucks to share it with.

 

Flat Rock is an unknown until we see what Lincoln is doing and the new projects.

If the intel I posted is correct, Baby Bronco looks to be gong to Cuautitlan. with the BEV, PHEV and HEV C2 specials.

That may mean there's more space at Hermosillo than some people think, it only ever maxed at 30,000 a month but

we know that Louisville has made over 41,000 in a month so anything is possible...

 

OAP - will it continue with Flex and MKT as 2020 models or are they making way for something else...

 

As mentioned before, all we need is a dip in the economy anda hungry market suddenly goes off the bite.

Perhaps Hermo. becomes genuine C2 flex plants would see Ford producing whatever products it needs

without upsetting the apple cart too much...(Ford would be looking at all possibilities)

Edited by jpd80

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I get the impression that Hermosillo could become Valencia-West and build a variety of stuff by demand. I just question if that's a profitable way of doing things.

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I get the impression that Hermosillo could become Valencia-West and build a variety of stuff by demand. I just question if that's a profitable way of doing things.

Clearly not as profitable as say, building 20K-30K per month of one type but if all are C2 and the build process is near identical,

then maybe as incremental product, the biggest cost is the additional stamping and added complexity of off line assembly areas.

 

Whatever eventuates, I think Ford will surprise the heck out of us with products from Mexico especially with new trade deal in place.

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I get the impression that Hermosillo could become Valencia-West and build a variety of stuff by demand. I just question if that's a profitable way of doing things.

Better to build 200K of 2 or 3 vehicles than 50K of one vehicle.

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If the intel I posted is correct, Baby Bronco looks to be gong to Cuautitlan. with the BEV, PHEV and HEV C2 specials.

That may mean there's more space at Hermosillo than some people think, it only ever maxed at 30,000 a month but

we know that Louisville has made over 41,000 in a month so anything is possible...

 

OAP - will it continue with Flex and MKT as 2020 models or are they making way for something else...

 

As mentioned before, all we need is a dip in the economy anda hungry market suddenly goes off the bite.

Perhaps Hermo. becomes genuine C2 flex plants would see Ford producing whatever products it needs

without upsetting the apple cart too much...(Ford would be looking at all possibilities)

 

According to that document I think it was icecapades posted, 2019 seems to be the last model year for them both.

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According to that document I think it was icecapades posted, 2019 seems to be the last model year for them both.

So the question will be what's going in there to replace both...

 

Radical idea,

OAP does domestic and exports of Edge to ROW in LHD and RHD, what if Mustang was moved there,

that would free up a lot of space for new products at Flat Rock....I know it's not happening but just sayin'.

Edited by jpd80

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Yeah, it would be like suicide for them to move Mustang production out of the US.

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Chevrolet would absolutely have a field day if production of the iconic Ford Mustang moved outside the U.S. it would be a PR disaster for Ford and a gift to Chevy, which would press hard on the not made in the USA storyline fuzzymoomoo is right.

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Chevrolet would absolutely have a field day if production of the iconic Ford Mustang moved outside the U.S. it would be a PR disaster for Ford and a gift to Chevy, which would press hard on the not made in the USA storyline fuzzymoomoo is right.

GM would have no room to talk though, the Camaro (and Firebird) was built in Canada for decades. It only just moved back to the US 2-3 years ago.

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Ah, I did not know that. Thank you.

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the Camaro (and Firebird) was built in Canada for decades. It only just moved back to the US 2-3 years ago.

 

Yes sir, Chevy Camaro assembly in the U.S. stopped in 1992 which was the last year for 3rd gen. It wasn't until 6th gen started production in November 2015 that Camaros were assembled in the U.S. again.

Edited by rperez817

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Yes sir, Chevy Camaro assembly in the U.S. stopped in 1992 which was the last year for 3rd gen. It wasn't until 6th gen started production in November 2015 that Camaros were assembled in the U.S. again.

Oh, it was that late? I thought it happened some time in the 80s.

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GM would have no room to talk though, the Camaro (and Firebird) was built in Canada for decades. It only just moved back to the US 2-3 years ago.

That doesn't matter. When the Cobras had an IRS, the Chebbie bois kept going on and on and on and on about how the live axle was clearly superior. When the new Camaro came out with an IRS and the Mustang was stuck with a live axle, what do you think they said then? Hint: it wasn't that the live axle was clearly superior.

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I'm sure Windstar buyers felt the same way when Ford exited the minivan market. I'm sure Mercury buyers felt the same way when they killed Mercury. What customers want isn't always what's best for the company.

 

I know people that used to buy Mercurys, Pontiacs, Oldsmobiles, etc. They all drive Japanese cars now.

 

The Big 3 threw away market share for years--decades--by watering down their middle brands, and then when sales declined to the point of no return, they justified the phase out by stating there was a lack of interest in the brand. It wasn't lack of interest--it was a lack of compelling product. Only a fraction of those Mercury customers went to Ford or Lincoln; the rest went to competitors. Ford's market share keeps decreasing every 10 years because they do nothing but constantly alienate customers and give them reasons to go to the competition. Killing sedans is only the latest in a long history of blunders.

 

We actually put our money where our mouth is and purchased a 2017 Edge Titanium last year for my wife, and I will be ready for a new vehicle next year. We bought the Edge as a family vehicle, but even my wife doesn't really like the high center of gravity and more sluggish driving experience after coming from a Corolla. I have always driven sedans, typically sport sedans, and have no desire to buy a truck or crossover. A Mustang is too impractical at this point (I need four doors and a usable backseat). Ford is basically telling me to look elsewhere, and it is a shame. I never imagined I would have to do such a thing after all the years I have spent invested in this company from a time, interest, and financial standpoint.

Edited by mustang84isu

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I know people that used to buy Mercurys, Pontiacs, Oldsmobiles, etc. They all drive Japanese cars now.

 

The Big 3 threw away market share for years--decades--by watering down their middle brands, and then when sales declined to the point of no return, they justified the phase out by stating there was a lack of interest in the brand. It wasn't lack of interest--it was a lack of compelling product. Only a fraction of those Mercury customers went to Ford or Lincoln; the rest went to competitors. Ford's market share keeps decreasing every 10 years because they do nothing but constantly alienate customers and give them reasons to go to the competition. Killing sedans is only the latest in a long history of blunders.

 

I don't think they saw a big drop in sales after killing Mercury, so I don't know how you can say those buyers went to competitors. In 2010 Ford sold a combined 249K Fusions/Milans. 29K were Milans. In 2011 Ford sold 248K Fusions.

 

Market share is decreasing because there are a LOT more players in the market now making good products (Kia/Hyundai e.g.). Adding products to increase market share without increased profitability is stupid. When GM went bankrupt they were #1 in sales volume.

 

Ford didn't justify killing Mercury based on lack of interest or low sales - they just decided they didn't need 3 brands and any Mercury vehicle they would have built could just as easily be sold as a Ford titanium or a Lincoln. And they were right.

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When GM went bankrupt they were #1 in sales volume.

 

At that time (2009), Toyota was actually #1 in sales volume for U.S. and globally.

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