Amid unease, dealers get clearest look yet at Ford's restructuring plan

[351cid]

That makes absolutely no sense. So Ford quality is the same as Ram which I assume is the same or better than GM but youd rather buy the RAM? Why would buying an Impala or Accord make you look at GMC or RAM?

 

Or are you just saying youre pissed off you cant buy a new Fusion so youre going to punish Ford and buy a lesser truck that you dont like as well? Isnt that cutting off your nose to spite your face?

 

This is a possibility and Ford knows that. But buyers today are just not as brand loyal as they used to be, especially younger buyers. And especially those who buy whatever is cheapest at the time. If Ford gets these new vehicles right theyll bring in a lot of new buyers that would not have considered a Ford and even if they dont make up all the sales, theyll get a lot more profit.

 

The only way this doesnt work out for Ford is if buyers reject hybrid utilities, Bronco and Baby Bronco and F series sales start to fall considerably. BEVs and AVs are nice but they wont have a huge financial impact if they arent successful. And there is no data to suggest people dont want utilities and hybrid utilities. So well have to wait and see.

My point is / was that until now, I have always been confident in purchasing Ford products. That confidence has been shaken given the lack of direction of FoMoCo. I would have never dreamed of going elsewhere for a vehicle purchase. If Ford doesn't have what I desire (a quality, modern sedan) then I do have to go elsewhere. That loyalty is broken.

 

I would "not" intentionally not a Ford truck on principal. But I could possibly be swayed into looking @ other brands because I don't feel the Ford product is superior & knowing their focus is only on profits.

[akirby]

There is no “lack of direction” at Ford. The direction is clear. You just don’t like it. And that’s ok.

[SoonerLS]

I was the same way until we bought our 2014 Escape Titanium (downsizing from an Edge). Wife test drove it, I wasn’t with her. Neither one of us thought about the passenger seat as we’d never had an issue. Neither one of us like the passenger seat for some reason. It seemed like it was a couple of inches too high but it was manual with no height adjustment. The whole thing ended up being too small for us so we gave it to daughter and got a MKX. Now I won’t buy anything without a brief test drive.

Weird. The only vehicle I've ever bought without taking a test drive was my '06 LS, but it was brand new and was replacing my '04 LS, so I had a pretty good idea of what I was getting.

[351cid]

Ive worked at a very large fortune 50 company for the last 32 years. Ive worked on 7, 8 and 9 figure business cases and outsourcing contracts.

 

I routinely deal with corporate budgets and trying to get funding for projects, which lately have not been very successful. I know how corporate finance works (or doesnt work) and how you have to manage budgets with limited resources. Revenue drops, projects get cancelled or put on hold. A more important project comes along - your funding gets cut. Then there are layoffs. Just because your project has a positive ROI does not mean it can be funded. Its all about priorities with a fixed pool of resources and thats what Ford is having to do right now.

 

So Id say thats a yes.

I'm trying to get a grasp on your logic. That's why I ask.

 

I'm not taking anything away from what you do because it's an important part of business. You look at the numbers only part of business. That's 1/2 of the equation. The other half is customer service.

 

I'm a truck driver. I also am the operator of our business (for 30 years). I deal with all aspects of doing business...finance, customer relations, future planning, quality control, logistics & washing the trucks. We are a small business ($750k to $1.25 mil). I survived the recession without any safety nets or a huge credit line.

 

My experience has taught me that customer service & retention are paramount to business success. Why do we even offer products or services? For our customers.

 

I have limited resources. I have 3 tractors, 9 trailers, 2 straight trucks & 3 drivers. I often do work for my customers that is profitable; but not ideal. It's part of taking care of them. Almost all of my business is referral & reputation as well as repeat customers. I have one specific account that we haul their recycle material across town. Why? Because I get cross country loads from them that have unbelievable margins. If I drop the across town loads; it possible (even probable) that someone else gets their foot in the door & takes my business on price even if their quality isn't the same. Loss leaders have always been an important part of sales...be it a product or service.

 

Same thing with a "cheap" car. If Jack & Jill Millennial go to Nissan & buy their Sentara. They have a good experience;they probably will go to that dealer for their SUV or truck first. It's up to that dealer to lose that sale & force them to go elsewhere. They may even say "Ford who?".

 

Margin is only part of a complicated equation for business success.

 

Now... I don't think Ford should only build low margin vehicles. But they do need to use their "whiz kids" to figure out how to sell a couple cars at a profit. If they can't, then I see them as doomed to fail.

[jpd80]

Hypothetically, if 25-30% of your business was tied up with break even/loss customers and you had

a chance to get profitable work for those trucks, would you do it and risk losing existing customers?

 

It's a given you wouldn't run out and finance new trucks to service those low paying/ loss making customers....

or are you the kind of guy that would take a personal hit to keep everyone happy....

 

Everyone's personality and perception in business is different, I think is important to understand where

you're coming from and how that differs with Ford's corporate attitude towards products and ts customers...

Edited October 27, 2018 by jpd80

[jpd80]

The moment Ford cancelled it's third Mexican plant, there were going to be casualties and Tariffs only worsened the situations.

Ford was caught off guard and has now been effectively prevented from importing cars or near car replacements.

I think that's why we haven't been shown white space vehicles, they're still working through what can be done.

Edited October 27, 2018 by jpd80

[msm859]

I was the same way until we bought our 2014 Escape Titanium (downsizing from an Edge). Wife test drove it, I wasn’t with her. Neither one of us thought about the passenger seat as we’d never had an issue. Neither one of us like the passenger seat for some reason. It seemed like it was a couple of inches too high but it was manual with no height adjustment. The whole thing ended up being too small for us so we gave it to daughter and got a MKX. Now I won’t buy anything without a brief test drive.

 

Well in 2013 I gave my wife a list of about 5 suv's to check out so she went and drove all of them and she liked the Explorer the best even vs the Mercedes, BMW and Lexus. Was the right size and nice interior. Upgraded to a 2017 Explorer Platinum again bought site unseen but knew what we were getting. I'm currently in my Corvette phase (17 years) and have ordered my last 3.

[fuzzymoomoo]

I think that's why we haven't been shown white space vehicles, they're still working through what can be done.

No, that's because even they still really don't know what the hell that even means

 

I question whether Ford as really truly cared about customer service for a while now just simply based on how much they squeeze dealer service departments. I've read the stories that fordtech1 tells. Some of them are brutal.

Edited October 27, 2018 by fuzzymoomoo

[jpd80]

No, that's because even they still really don't know what the hell that even means

True, I suspect the heads don't really know, they set up research and get back answers the they want to hear.

 

I question whether Ford as really truly cared about customer service for a while now just simply based on how much they squeeze dealer service departments. I've read the stories that fordtech1 tells. Some of them are brutal.

Which makes me question the direction Hackett is taking Ford, nowhere is quality and customer service mentioned.

[akirby]

I'm trying to get a grasp on your logic. That's why I ask.

I'm not taking anything away from what you do because it's an important part of business. You look at the numbers only part of business. That's 1/2 of the equation. The other half is customer service.

I'm a truck driver. I also am the operator of our business (for 30 years). I deal with all aspects of doing business...finance, customer relations, future planning, quality control, logistics & washing the trucks. We are a small business ($750k to $1.25 mil). I survived the recession without any safety nets or a huge credit line.

My experience has taught me that customer service & retention are paramount to business success. Why do we even offer products or services? For our customers.

I have limited resources. I have 3 tractors, 9 trailers, 2 straight trucks & 3 drivers. I often do work for my customers that is profitable; but not ideal. It's part of taking care of them. Almost all of my business is referral & reputation as well as repeat customers. I have one specific account that we haul their recycle material across town. Why? Because I get cross country loads from them that have unbelievable margins. If I drop the across town loads; it possible (even probable) that someone else gets their foot in the door & takes my business on price even if their quality isn't the same. Loss leaders have always been an important part of sales...be it a product or service.

Same thing with a "cheap" car. If Jack & Jill Millennial go to Nissan & buy their Sentara. They have a good experience;they probably will go to that dealer for their SUV or truck first. It's up to that dealer to lose that sale & force them to go elsewhere. They may even say "Ford who?".

Margin is only part of a complicated equation for business success.

Now... I don't think Ford should only build low margin vehicles. But they do need to use their "whiz kids" to figure out how to sell a couple cars at a profit. If they can't, then I see them as doomed to fail.

I appreciate your perspective and I understand it. And at one time I think that behavior was prevalent. But in today’s world you have so many brands to choose from who are making excellent products and young folks simply aren’t as brand loyal as they used to be. They buy whatever vehicle fits their needs and wants.

 

If Ford had the factory space to keep making Focus and Fusion in NA and do all the new stuff I’m sure they would.

 

But let’s say you have the choice between doing cheap jobs for a few customers or getting a couple of lucrative new jobs that offer big profits for the future and you can’t do both. Would you turn those down? It’s great when you can do it but sometimes you have to make a choice.

 

And make no mistake about it - Ford can’t do everything and keep up profit margins demanded by the board and investors. They have to choose. It may or may not be the right decision long term - that depends on where the market goes and how the products are received. But on paper today it looks like the right choice.

[twintornados]

I'm trying to get a grasp on your logic. That's why I ask.

 

I'm not taking anything away from what you do because it's an important part of business. You look at the numbers only part of business. That's 1/2 of the equation. The other half is customer service.

 

I'm a truck driver. I also am the operator of our business (for 30 years). I deal with all aspects of doing business...finance, customer relations, future planning, quality control, logistics & washing the trucks. We are a small business ($750k to $1.25 mil). I survived the recession without any safety nets or a huge credit line.

 

My experience has taught me that customer service & retention are paramount to business success. Why do we even offer products or services? For our customers.

 

I have limited resources. I have 3 tractors, 9 trailers, 2 straight trucks & 3 drivers. I often do work for my customers that is profitable; but not ideal. It's part of taking care of them. Almost all of my business is referral & reputation as well as repeat customers. I have one specific account that we haul their recycle material across town. Why? Because I get cross country loads from them that have unbelievable margins. If I drop the across town loads; it possible (even probable) that someone else gets their foot in the door & takes my business on price even if their quality isn't the same. Loss leaders have always been an important part of sales...be it a product or service.

 

Same thing with a "cheap" car. If Jack & Jill Millennial go to Nissan & buy their Sentara. They have a good experience;they probably will go to that dealer for their SUV or truck first. It's up to that dealer to lose that sale & force them to go elsewhere. They may even say "Ford who?".

 

Margin is only part of a complicated equation for business success.

 

Now... I don't think Ford should only build low margin vehicles. But they do need to use their "whiz kids" to figure out how to sell a couple cars at a profit. If they can't, then I see them as doomed to fail.

.

As an independent business owner, it is laudable that you go that extra mile to ensure your customers satisfaction as your way of ensuring future business. Ford and other large corporations, on the other hand, have to contend with Wall Streets' never ending demand that their stock continues to make profit. That is the devil they serve...."enhancing investor value" has always rubbed me the wrong way....make a profit, satisfy your customer and you will continue to make a profit. Wall Street wants profits and they don't give a shit about the customer...in their view THEY are the only customer that matters.

[Gurgeh]

No, that's because even they still really don't know what the hell that even means

 

I question whether Ford as really truly cared about customer service for a while now just simply based on how much they squeeze dealer service departments. I've read the stories that fordtech1 tells. Some of them are brutal.

 

I'm not sure other automakers get it either. My Q5 has been in the dealer's service bay for four days now (and it won't be ready for pick up for another three) for a rattling sunroof. This is the fourth time in two months. The first time they cleaned and lubricated the track. That fixed it for two hours. The second time, they cleaned and lubricated the track then glued on a couple of pieces of felt on the track. That fixed the rattle for two days. Third time they cleaned and lubricated the track and tried to adjust how the glass sat in the track. That fixed the rattle for two days, but as with all the others, it came back. This fourth time they are finally replacing the track. Seems they had to go through the cleaning and lubricating three times (the first was a reasonable try, though) before Audi would authorize the expensive job under warranty of actually replacing the faulty part.

 

I should be more annoyed than I am but at this point all I really care about is getting the vehicle in good shape to sell for the arrival of the Nautilus I'm ordering.

[jpd80]

There must be a way for Ford to have its cake and eat it too, they clearly want at least Focus Active

and i suspect an evolution of Fusion but how to do that without being snagged by tariffs or taking

away precious product space...

 

I remember last year Bill Ford confirmed that MKC was staying at Louisville with Escape, Ford was probably looking

to increase Escape capacity by moving the MKC to Hermosillo with Baby Bronco and other vehicles (CX430?)

 

Maybe there's an opportunity to run Hermosillo hard as a flex plant with lots of products, keep inventory tight and prices up.

[fuzzymoomoo]

CX430 is the Baby Bronco

[jpd80]

CX430 is the Baby Bronco

Sorry, there was talk of another CX-xxx as a baby pick up companion product..

[fuzzymoomoo]

Sorry, there was talk of another CX-xxx as a baby pick up companion product..

that had a Pxxx program code. Can't remember exactly what it was.

[jpd80]

that had a Pxxx program code. Can't remember exactly what it was.

Found it, P758...Ranger is P703

[351cid]

But lets say you have the choice between doing cheap jobs for a few customers or getting a couple of lucrative new jobs that offer big profits for the future and you cant do both. Would you turn those down? Its great when you can do it but sometimes you have to make a choice.

 

 

You know, you drudged up a memory that I had forgotten...or blocked, as it may be.

 

In 1999. I landed an account that had unbelievable margins. Each truck was knocking out 40 percent profit per month. The volume was such that I had to stop doing other business. In 2000, I did 5 million in revenues & had a nightmare with taxes (do the math on the profit). In the fall of 2001, my contract was killed because of politics within that company. I was left with no business source & expenses that soaked up all the profits made (5 new Peterbilts will do that to ya). The after math of 9/11 & the recession that followed didn't help. I had to start all over with building new accounts because all of our old ones had moved on. The end result was was in worse shape financially after that event than I was prior. Expensive lesson learned...because I went chasing the $$$.

 

Edits because my phone thinks it knows what I want to say more than I.

Edited October 28, 2018 by 351cid

[akirby]

You know, you drudged up a memory that I had forgotten...or blocked, as it may be.

In 1999. I landed an account that had unbelievable margins. Each truck was knocking out 40 percent profit per month. The volume was such that I had to stop doing other business. In 2000, I did 5 million in revenues & had a nightmare with taxes (do the math on the profit). In the fall of 2001, my contract was killed because of politics within that company. I was left with no business source & expenses that soaked up all the profits made (5 new Peterbilts will do that to ya). The after math of 9/11 & the recession that followed didn't help. I had to start all over with building new accounts because all of our old ones had moved on. The end result was was in worse shape financially after that event than I was prior. Expensive lesson learned...because I went chasing the $$$.

Edits because my phone thinks it knows what I want to say more than I.

That’s always a risk with any new business venture. But there was also a good chance that business could have continued for several years and had you not attempted it you would have missed out on millions in profit. Ideally you do both but sometimes you can’t. That’s the problem Ford has now - they can’t do all the new stuff that they think will make them competitive in the future and keep making cars. Time will tell if it was the right decision.

[jpd80]

I think there's a difference with the Ford situation as they're not exactly giving up on cars,

Given Focus Active, it looks like Ford will change its cars slightly and rebranding them as crossovers.

Also, Focus and Mondeo are continuing in Europe and ROW but now it tariffs keeping them away...

Edited October 28, 2018 by jpd80

[akirby]

I think there's a difference with the Ford situation as they're not exactly giving up on cars,

Given Focus Active, it looks like Ford will change its cars slightly and rebranding them as crossovers.

Also, Focus and Mondeo are continuing in Europe and ROW but now it tariffs keeping them away...

They cancelled Focus Active imports due to the tariffs. But yes, they still have a brand new Focus and a Mondeo in Europe that’s available if they need it here again.

[jpd80]

I saw this info on another forum, the list dates from Jan 2017 and may have changed

 

 

 

I was sent some interesting info today with some new program numbers etc, all listed under the C2 platform program. The production site info I have a feeling has been changed since this info was published as I think it is safe to assume much info has changed since Jan.2017.

C727 Ford CEV BEV/PHEV Cuautitlan, Mexico SOP 9/3/2019 EOP 6/28/2024
C728 Ford CEV HEV Cuautitlan, Mexico SOP 9/3/2019 EOP 6/28/2024
C730 Ford HEV Cuautitlan, Mexico SOP 12/1/2020 EOP 6/28/2024
CX430 Ford GenY CUV Cuautitlan, SOP Mexico 12/19/2019 EOP 11/28/2025

 

If true, that means Baby Bronco is going to Cuautitlan...

[silvrsvt]

Is the C727 the Escape? The time line seems a bit off...

[fuzzymoomoo]

Is the C727 the Escape? The time line seems a bit off...

No. Escape is CX482. MKC/Corsair is CX483.

[silvrsvt]

No. Escape is CX482. MKC/Corsair is CX483.

 

I was going to say that didnt sound right...Wonder what the hell it is then. I'd assume one of them is the Mach 1, but that would be BEV and not HEV or whatever else is there.