Lincoln Continental most likely dead in 2020 for North America

[jpd80]

 

Like Mach 1

Yeah, Ford obviously wants to pedal "Mustang's DNA" to the max on the new Crossover....

Without that connection of names and certain styling features, it would be just another obscure vehicle.

Edited September 7, 2018 by jpd80

[Assimilator]

Ass, I am sorry if you suffer from a medical condition or ailment that makes you unable to find comfort in anything but a frumpy utility vehicle. However, to say that the comfort was sucked out of a Continental is an asinine and ridiculous statement.

 

Thanks for your concern but I am very well.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Assimilator

[brucelinc]

Few Continental owners have been more critical of the car than I have been. As I have said before, in my opinion, the styling and resulting road presence is too bland. While very good, I also think there was room for improvement in terms of ride quality and noise isolation when compared with best in class. The 6 speed automatic with its intrusive torque management neuters the 400 HP engine's performance and fuel economy. Lastly, I found the marketing of the car to be about as bland as the styling.

 

I think jpd is exactly right that RWD would not have had any impact on sales. Given the current state of the market, I am not sure that anything they could have done would have had much impact.

[Assimilator]

When you're doubted as much as Lincoln, you have to perform extra hard to get the attention and respect so vital to establishing brand equity. It's not enough to be good enough, you have to be best. If you show any weakness or compromise, it's magnified. Lincoln is always weak when it faces matured segments, but thrives when the competition leaves lots of room (Navigator). Getting Lincoln to move ahead in established categories is a monumental and slow task and there is no area that magnifies Lincoln's vulnerability than facing the Germans and Japanese in cars. It requires excellence and tremendous innovation which is all very expensive at this point in the game. They tried, but clearly not very hard and they've run out of opportunities. But there is still room to shine in emerging segments without spending money into thin air. Lincoln has to make these segments their own. Aviator is critical, there is tons of room there to shine.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Assimilator

[silvrsvt]

He is entitled to his opinion just as much as either of you, and shouldn't be attacked for expressing it. That's what takes this board downhill.

 

I have no issue with opinion, just expressing it as fact or using hyperbole (i.e. Borg/ass infamous xray vision with camo'ed vehicles) is going to get him taken to task.

[ehaase]

Ass, I am sorry if you suffer from a medical condition or ailment that makes you unable to find comfort in anything but a frumpy utility vehicle. However, to say that the comfort was sucked out of a Continental is an asinine and ridiculous statement.

I've even sat in the back seat of an MKZ and found it comfortable and spacious.

[jpd80]

When you're doubted as much as Lincoln, you have to perform extra hard to get the attention and respect so vital to establishing brand equity. It's not enough to be good enough, you have to be best. If you show any weakness or compromise, it's magnified. Lincoln is always weak when it faces matured segments, but thrives when the competition leaves lots of room (Navigator). Getting Lincoln to move ahead in established categories is a monumental and slow task and there is no area that magnifies Lincoln's vulnerability than facing the Germans and Japanese in cars. It requires excellence and tremendous innovation which is all very expensive at this point in the game. They tried, but clearly not very hard and they've run out of opportunities. But there is still room to shine in emerging segments without spending money into thin air. Lincoln has to make these segments their own. Aviator is critical, there is tons of room there to shine.

Yes, Lincoln needs a few confidence building models that can play without an air of desperation.

Lincoln's dealer council has been begging Ford for a 3-Row SUV for years (Aviator replace MKT)

but Ford knew best and tried Continental and then Navigator before coming round to Aviator.

 

If Lincoln was to do one car, my pick would be a modern day take on MKR size or maybe split two wheelbases.

Edited September 8, 2018 by jpd80

[Footballfan]

Just my opinion but I doubt that RWD would have made a shred of difference to Continental's sales or appeal.

Try as they may, Cadillac developed the CT6 with all the fanfare of mixed construction and styling but still bombed in sales.

 

Making these vehicles better is no guarantee that sales will increase and could in fact fall further if buyers keep changing to utilities.

 

I think that the only way that Lincoln would be successful with sedans is if they came out with an AMERICAN luxury car- as in a modernized 220" long, plush, bold, and boxy. Cadillac moved to take on the Europeans about 20 years ago, and that left the market for large American luxury cars wide open. I still feel there is a market for these cars as boomers and Xers remember the large land yachts their parents had.

[Footballfan]

So, if the AV craze does not take off, Flat Rock will still be happy to provide regular Transit Connects.

 

I have a feeling as more and more people are having that the AV craze IS NOT going to take off. I see it similar as the electric car- a lot of false starts before the public finally accepts it.

[silvrsvt]

 

I still feel there is a market for these cars as boomers and Xers remember the large land yachts their parents had.

 

The Boomers and Gen X are solidly behind CUV's and SUV's...I have zero interest in a luxury sedan that is the same size as my Taurus-its too fucking big.

[brucelinc]

 

I think that the only way that Lincoln would be successful with sedans is if they came out with an AMERICAN luxury car- as in a modernized 220" long, plush, bold, and boxy. Cadillac moved to take on the Europeans about 20 years ago, and that left the market for large American luxury cars wide open. I still feel there is a market for these cars as boomers and Xers remember the large land yachts their parents had.

 

But isn't that sort of what they tried to do with the Continental? Granted, it is not that long and not that bold but it is rather boxy and superbly comfortable. If you were to poll Continental owners, my guess - and from what I read on dedicated Continental forums and chatting with other owners - is that comfort and overall friendliness to drive are their favorite features. It also has some very cool touches like the power cinch doors and the lighting that greets the owner as he/she approaches....as well as a reasonable amount of user-friendly tech. It really strikes me as a modern interpretation of the classic American luxury car.....but not many people seem to care....or want that sort of thing. I think Silvrsvt is right: The Boomers and Gen X are solidly behind CUV's and SUV's

Edited September 8, 2018 by brucelinc

[ice-capades]

Passed a Continental on the road the other day and was totally unimpressed. The whole problem with Lincoln is that they lost the "Mark of Distinction" decades ago and don't know how to get it back.

[tzach]

 

I think that the only way that Lincoln would be successful with sedans is if they came out with an AMERICAN luxury car- as in a modernized 220" long, plush, bold, and boxy. Cadillac moved to take on the Europeans about 20 years ago, and that left the market for large American luxury cars wide open. I still feel there is a market for these cars as boomers and Xers remember the large land yachts their parents had.

 

Would love for this to be true but no matter how much we dream it just is not. As stated people want SUV/CUV not big cars. I would buy a Continental you describe just add a 5.2 L Voo Doo and a 6 speed manual and I am sold. Of course the odds of me hitting it big with the lottery and building my own are bigger than Ford ever building it.

[brucelinc]

Passed a Continental on the road the other day and was totally unimpressed. The whole problem with Lincoln is that they lost the "Mark of Distinction" decades ago and don't know how to get it back.

I agree that they lack road presence. Styling is not important to me at all. Otherwise, I wouldn't have driven a Mitsubishi...err..I mean a Lincoln LS...for almost 10 years. However, when my Continental is parked beside my wife's Taurus, both strike me about the same in terms of overall "pop." There is no comparison in terms of interior and many other things but style-wise...pretty much a wash.

Edited September 8, 2018 by brucelinc

[akirby]

I have a feeling as more and more people are having that the AV craze IS NOT going to take off. I see it similar as the electric car- a lot of false starts before the public finally accepts it.

 

There is no market for individually owned AVs. AVs will be strictly a commercial fleet vehicle and that’s what Ford is going after.

[rperez817]

There is no market for individually owned AVs. AVs will be strictly a commercial fleet vehicle and that’s what Ford is going after.

 

Yes sir. What's interesting is that Ford plans to own the fleet. This is unlike what some other automakers are doing by selling their AVs to outside services like Waymo, Uber, Lyft, etc.

[akirby]

Yes sir. What's interesting is that Ford plans to own the fleet. This is unlike what some other automakers are doing by selling their AVs to outside services like Waymo, Uber, Lyft, etc.

I don’t think that’s true. Ford is developing a Transportation as a Service cloud platform that will allow fleet owners to manage their fleets of AVs (food delivery, Uber, Lyft, etc.). That platform will work with any AV.

[rperez817]

I don’t think that’s true. Ford is developing a Transportation as a Service cloud platform that will allow fleet owners to manage their fleets of AVs (food delivery, Uber, Lyft, etc.). That platform will work with any AV.

 

Jim Farley said that Ford will "own the fleet" for its AVs and services. This fleet will be at scale by 2021. https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/15/ford-self-driving-car-network-at-scale-in-2021/

 

Didn't know that Ford is developing services that work with any AV. That's cool. Sounds like Ford has its bases covered for AVs and related services.

[akirby]

Sounds like they’ll provide the vehicles in conjunction with their TaaS platform to manage it. Just like Amazon offers Compute as a Service.

[fuzzymoomoo]

I like that idea more than just throwing them out to the public and letting the average everyday asshole get their hands on one. All those self driving Teslas crashing really concerns me about trusting the public with them.

[akirby]

Oh you can bet the technology will show up in passenger vehicles as a driving aid but probably not full AV mode.

[jpd80]

https://www.ft.com/content/2ee71d1a-3f02-11e8-b7e0-52972418fec4

Sounds like Ford is looking to use a hybrid commercial built to operate 20 hours a day when it launches its service in 2021.

maybe also carry people and cargo interchangeably, suggesting a double cab Transit Connect or maybe even a Transit?

 

Sounds like Ford is throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks as it really has no idea

of how people will value a driver-less service. delivering pizzas and expecting people to

walk out to the curb, I can just see Homer moaning......

Edited September 9, 2018 by jpd80

[Harley Lover]

Isn't it established that Ford's first AV will be built on the Transit Connect?

[Assimilator]

Ford is mostly providing the infrastructure (Vehicles, Factories, Customers) for AVs, but they have largely spun off that business so that investors can chime in and take advantage of those assets and further develop the technology. I think it's an interesting and somewhat unique strategy, although Ford has a poor history with this sort of compartmentalization. I'm mostly interested in how elements of this technology comes to retail Ford and Lincoln vehicles, some of it is quietly arriving in the form of lane centering. I know Ford is taking a much more conservative approach than other companies by solving the infrastructure problems first so they can deploy the best system possible. Other companies, especially GM, are creating solutions for today instead of tomorrow which is a complete waste. That also applies to their EV program. This is part of the problem Ford has, they are seen as dopey prognosticators instead of doers, but Ford is building something bigger and more sustainable. It always shows up eventually and people will get it when it does. I've long learned to respect the process...I always see it in the companies I admire most. But unfortunately, this is also something that's intangible and nearly impossible to communicate.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Assimilator

[akirby]

The way I think this will work is that each AV will be an internet connected car. Ford will create a platform that runs in a public cloud like AWS or Azure that will communicate with the AVs and allow fleet managers to track, dispatch and manage their AV fleet. I’m sure they’ll develop modules that can be added to other AVs. The business opportunity here is the management platform especially if it can work with any AV. And to offer a turnkey system with their own AVs for those who want that.