Sedan sales

[rperez817]

Who sold the most cars when GM went bankrupt?

 

Toyota. Both in the U.S. and globally.

[jpd80]

 

As I said in the other thread, I'd be interested in the Fiesta ST Line except that it looks like its not based on the 7th Gen Fiesta sold since the 2017 model year in europe but the previous generation which is still be sold in the U.S. - the interior of the current Fiesta is somewhat antiquated and I can only assume when the 2019 Fiesta ST line comes out it will still have that interior. Which gets to the year or two gap - the Ford Website still shows 2018 models for every car except for Mustang and Fusion. Articles are saying marketing is being pulled from all the cars except for Mustang. While that may be wise - in reality we have more than a one or two year wait or gap.

Wonder if ST Line for USA is coming from Valencia plant, not Germany.

That might explain a lot...regarding the 1.6 I-4 being the older model..

[fuzzymoomoo]

Wonder if ST Line for USA is coming from Valencia plant, not Germany.

That might explain a lot...regarding the 1.6 I-4 being the older model..

You havent been paying attention. The 2019 Fiesta for North America is no different than the 2018 Fiesta for North America.

[lfeg]

I'd love an updated version of the 1978 LTD Landau. I'd love an updated version of the 1967 Custom 500 or the 1970 1/2 Falcon. But Ford is better off not catering to me.

Now, an updated version of the '67 Custom 500 might be something. A bit taller than todays sedans, with a more upright seating position. Would fit right in as a SUV/CUV with the right styling.

[ehaase]

Now, an updated version of the '67 Custom 500 might be something. A bit taller than todays sedans, with a more upright seating position. Would fit right in as a SUV/CUV with the right styling.

I'd want it styled just like the original, just swap a 10 speed automatic for Cruise-O-Matic and add port fuel injection to the 390 and 428.

[mackinaw]

 

Toyota. Both in the U.S. and globally.

 

Not true. GM went bankrupt in 2009. GM sold 2,084,492 vehicles in the U.S. in calendar year 2009, Toyota sold 1,770,149 vehicles.

 

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2009-sales-gm-retains-20-percent-share-but-toyotas-no-1-in-retail-sales-2519/

[Fgts]

 

That's because they refuse to listen to internet experts who want Ford to introduce an updated version of the 1978 LTD Landau so that they can buy a used one. That's the surefire way to booming sales and increased market share.

No,nobody really wanted that even in 78' but I do want Ford to make this.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ford-Interceptor-DC.jpg

 

2.0EB to 7.3 Boss and Plug-in would cover all Ford sedan buyers needs.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Fgts

[Trader 10]

Regardless of who sold the most cars when GM went bankrupt, it’s ludicrous to infer that Toyota and Honda are about to go bankrupt because they sell a lot of cars.

[akirby]

Regardless of who sold the most cars when GM went bankrupt, it’s ludicrous to infer that Toyota and Honda are about to go bankrupt because they sell a lot of cars.

That wasn’t the point. The point was that sales volume by itself is meaningless. Adding volume without adding profit is not good. Just because you can sell 100K vehicles doesn’t mean you can do so at a profit.

[rperez817]

 

Not true. GM went bankrupt in 2009. GM sold 2,084,492 vehicles in the U.S. in calendar year 2009, Toyota sold 1,770,149 vehicles.

 

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2009-sales-gm-retains-20-percent-share-but-toyotas-no-1-in-retail-sales-2519/

 

Thanks for the Motor Trend link mackinaw sir. I was thinking cars only (not light trucks) based on akirby's question.

[Assimilator]

For those who miss the styling and handling of a sedan, we are definitely approaching a time when Crossovers are picking up the characteristics of a low-slung sedan, the real difference comes down to the shape of the cab. If you prefer a sedan because it has a trunk instead of hatch, well then you're definitely out of luck moving forward. But ultimately we're going to see better looking wagon-style designs that won't let you miss sedans. Every utility is getting lower and lower to the ground anyway, which is why we are getting a 2nd style of utility at Ford to cater to people who specifically want the SUV style and experience.

 

That's why I get a little baffled by people who still see utilities as if this was 1993.

 

BTW, I drive basically every Lincoln made and I can tell you my MKX handles just as well as the MKZ and Continental, although both the MKZ and Continental have a more 'floaty' ride which means they often feel poorer handling than the MKX but better isolated and softer.

 

I freaking love my 18 MKX, it drives so well and I drive it like I stole it because it's so much fun. I'm amazed at what a well rounded vehicle the crossover has become and ultimately why I sing their praises and Ford's skill at making them, they've improved so much and I no longer believe the knee-jerk stereotypes about them. The differences between a car and utility really comes down to nitpicks at this point, especially in a daily driving situation.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Assimilator

[jpd80]

If we accept that the majority of sedan buyers are now aging and either switching to utilities

or simply not buying another new car, you can see how the tide of change can increase quickly.

 

Good on Ford, if they see a chance of selling lower crossovers that drive and handle like cars

but give much better utility/functionality, then go for it because I'm sure the market is hungry for it.

 

The level of performance available may also bring some interesting changes to how we see

electrification and hybrid use, it may all hinge on getting those vehicle types right first before

the market fully embraces electrification.

Edited September 8, 2018 by jpd80

[Fgts]

For those who miss the styling and handling of a sedan, we are definitely approaching a time when Crossovers are picking up the characteristics of a low-slung sedan, the real difference comes down to the shape of the cab. If you prefer a sedan because it has a trunk instead of hatch, well then you're definitely out of luck moving forward. But ultimately we're going to see better looking wagon-style designs that won't let you miss sedans. Every utility is getting lower and lower to the ground anyway, which is why we are getting a 2nd style of utility at Ford to cater to people who specifically want the SUV style and experience.

 

That's why I get a little baffled by people who still see utilities as if this was 1993.

 

BTW, I drive basically every Lincoln made and I can tell you my MKX handles just as well as the MKZ and Continental, although both the MKZ and Continental have a more 'floaty' ride which means they often feel poorer handling than the MKX but better isolated and softer.

 

I freaking love my 18 MKX, it drives so well and I drive it like I stole it because it's so much fun. I'm amazed at what a well rounded vehicle the crossover has become and ultimately why I sing their praises and Ford's skill at making them, they've improved so much and I no longer believe the knee-jerk stereotypes about them. The differences between a car and utility really comes down to nitpicks at this point, especially in a daily driving situation.

Lol, as if GM and FCA will stop making sedans because Ford done so, yes they won't take in as much money as an truck/suv but as long as it's buyers and still profitable they will still make them.

[jpd80]

Lol, as if GM and FCA will stop making sedans because Ford done so, yes they won't take in as much money as an truck/suv but as long as it's buyers and still profitable they will still make them.

I wonder if keeping cars is the lowest cost, least disruptive option for now,

consolidating production and plants, new utilities and reducing employees

may be a raft of headaches that GM can do without for the next year or so.

[silvrsvt]

The level of performance available may also bring some interesting changes to how we see

electrification and hybrid use, it may all hinge on getting those vehicle types right first before

the market fully embraces electrification.

 

I really hope we see an Escape ST and maybe even a EcoSport ST in its next generation.

 

I'm sure we'll see a Bronco Raptor down the road-but I wonder if they'll do an ST or something out of it also.

[rmc523]

 

I really hope we see an Escape ST and maybe even a EcoSport ST in its next generation.

 

I'm sure we'll see a Bronco Raptor down the road-but I wonder if they'll do an ST or something out of it also.

 

I can't see any way there won't be an Escape ST.

 

Bronco I'm not sure about - I think it'll be aligned with truck trim levels (XLT, Limited, Platinum, Raptor), so if I had to guess, likely no ST, but I guess you never know!

[Sevensecondsuv]

After buying my Mustang, I thought I would sell the Continental. However, with the lack of sedans on the horizon, I have decided to keep it. For an ultra comfortable highway cruiser, I have found nothing better. Boring as vanilla yogurt but an excellent vehicle for covering the miles.

That they are! The only thing Ford could have done better was to make it bigger. Like at least 8" wider and 8" more wheelbase with more trunk thrown on too. There's nothing like a large (full size F150/Expy dimensions, not stretched fusion size) sedan for soaking up the miles.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Sevensecondsuv

[ehaase]

I wonder if keeping cars is the lowest cost, least disruptive option for now,

consolidating production and plants, new utilities and reducing employees

may be a raft of headaches that GM can do without for the next year or so.

Impala debuted for 2014; Cruze and Malibu came for 2016. I would think GM wants to get more life out of these cars. I doubt any will see another generation. Looks like Cadillac's CT4 and CT5 will just be modestly restyled and updated versions of ATS and CTS. I won't be surprised if there's not another generation of those cars either.

[mackinaw]

Rumors last spring were that the Impala, Sonic and Spark were all on the chopping block.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Rumors last spring were that the Impala, Sonic and Spark were all on the chopping block.

IIRC Spark is already dead

[jpd80]

Impala debuted for 2014; Cruze and Malibu came for 2016. I would think GM wants to get more life out of these cars. I doubt any will see another generation. Looks like Cadillac's CT4 and CT5 will just be modestly restyled and updated versions of ATS and CTS. I won't be surprised if there's not another generation of those cars either.

Yes and that's why I said lowest cost , least disruptive option for now..

 

The platforms those vehicles are based on are basically evolutions of earlier designs and for the most part,

Opel legacy platforms. I see no sense in ending them in mid product cycle when healthy refreshes may

afford GM a bump in sales for a year or so while it readies replacement future products and formulates

plans for restructuring in whatever form that takes.

[Fgts]

I wonder if keeping cars is the lowest cost, least disruptive option for now,

consolidating production and plants, new utilities and reducing employees

may be a raft of headaches that GM can do without for the next year or so.

Most likely like the GM W-body, EP2, FCAs LX and Toyota they will get significant updates to the point it's a "new" car but doubt you'll see a sedan platform again unless it's a modular platform like Toyota's TGNA or CD6.

 

The new names for the GM sedan platforms go by V-SS( "f" or "r" depends on the drivewheels) but still updated versions of Delta, Epsilon, Alpha, etc...

In short don't expect GM to get out of sedans anytime soon.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Fgts

[jpd80]

Most likely like the GM W-body, EP2, FCAs LX and Toyota they will get significant updates to the point it's a "new" car but doubt you'll see a sedan platform again unless it's a modular platform like Toyota's TGNA or CD6.

 

The new names for the GM sedan platforms go by V-SS( "f" or "r" depends on the drivewheels) but still updated versions of Delta, Epsilon, Alpha, etc...

In short don't expect GM to get out of sedans anytime soon.

The contraction in Chevrolet cars last months was caused by pull back of incentives offered,

that would be a worrying sign if it continues and probably why GM doesn't like reporting monthly.

[Fgts]

The contraction in Chevrolet cars last months was caused by pull back of incentives offered,

that would be a worrying sign if it continues and probably why GM doesn't like reporting monthly.

So people stop buying sedans for a month or so because of incentives means GM must follow Ford's lead?.

[jpd80]

Nope, already suggested that GM keep going a couple of posts back..