fuzzymoomoo Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Ford was projecting 125k at one time. Not sure if that changed at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Toyota sold 198k Tacoma last year and it is on pace to sell 250k this year so it is growing at a 25% pace. Unlike 7 or 8 years ago, the mid size segment is growing... so I wouldn't necessary assume that Ranger sales will come at the expense of F-150 or other Ford products. Most of the sales will probably come from conquest sales of people trading in CUVs. Sure, some defection from Escape or Edge is probably going to happen but Ford can easily find new buyers for Escape or Edge if those people end up choosing Ranger. I personally don't think there will be that much cross shopping going on with Ranger and F-150. The size difference is stark and the value propositions are very different. You don't see people cross shop F-150 and Tacoma now because they are aimed at different market segments and more importantly, different geographic regions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 (edited) Ford has changed it's mind on Ranger and no longer sees it as a 7/8th F150 that would only eat into F150 sales, that negativity disappears after GM reintroduce the Colorado .without significant sales bleed away from Silverado. Brave Ford waited until others proved the case for Ranger..... Edited August 29, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 The other thing to consider is that F series is approaching capacity with the current plants. So even if it bleeds a few F series sales it's ok. That wasn't the case 5-6 years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 The other thing to consider is that F series is approaching capacity with the current plants. So even if it bleeds a few F series sales it's ok. That wasn't the case 5-6 years ago. Especially if ATPs keep rising the way they are 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 (edited) The other thing to consider is that F series is approaching capacity with the current plants. So even if it bleeds a few F series sales it's ok. That wasn't the case 5-6 years ago. F Series sales 2011.....584,917 2012.....645,316 2013.... 763,402 2014.... 753,851 2015.... 780,354 2016.... 830,799 the decision to opt out of T6 Ranger was made in 2006 under very different circumstances Bottom line was that Ford was risk averse to products it considered non-essential it is unfortunate that they didnt take Ranger and fully refresh the full sized SUVs but they wouldn't have been game changes, just nice to have... As Fuzzy said rising ATPs along with those rising sales was a double bonus. GM clearly took a gamble in 2012 to bring Colorado/Canyon in 2014, Ford in 2011 was seeing huge shift away from V8 to Ecoboost in F150 so maybe that added efficiency colored their judgement on need for Ranger.. Edited August 29, 2018 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 the decision to opt out of T6 Ranger was made in 2006 under very different circumstances Bottom line was that Ford was risk averse to products it considered non-essential it is unfortunate that they didnt take Ranger and fully refresh the full sized SUVs but they wouldn't have been game changes, just nice to have... If the T6 really can’t accommodate a V6, that would have been a non-starter in the US, and would’ve required a major re-engineering effort, which was also a non-starter at the time. The EcoBoost engines have changed the game, but the Ranger doesn’t have a long-term future as anything but an also-ran if it doesn’t get a V6 in the near future, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 but the Ranger doesn’t have a long-term future as anything but an also-ran if it doesn’t get a V6 in the near future, IMHO. And people won't buy V6 F150's either. I think a V6 is completely unnecessary. I mean, the 2.3L is liking making the same HP and nearly the same torque (with a lower torque curve) than the top dog 5.4L V8 in the F150 was making when it was retired 8 years ago. With that said, I expect it to get a V6 after it's update in a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 And people won't buy V6 F150's either. I think a V6 is completely unnecessary. I mean, the 2.3L is liking making the same HP and nearly the same torque (with a lower torque curve) than the top dog 5.4L V8 in the F150 was making when it was retired 8 years ago. With that said, I expect it to get a V6 after it's update in a few years. I agree if you're talking about NA V6s, but I think it definitely needs the 2.7LEB at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 fordmantpw….the reg aspirated F-150s, reg cab/ supercab, and to an extent Supercabs sell like bloody hotcakes to business's...currently we are completely sold out and waiting for 19s.....as for the ranger...there WILL be a kickback to those still wary of turbo'ed engines....just like how the 5.0 in the f150 soldiers on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 I agree if you're talking about NA V6s, but I think it definitely needs the 2.7LEB at some point. I think the 3.3L V6 will show up as a cheaper alternative, and the 2.7LEB will show up for the Raptor and possibly a Limited trim (similar to the F150's HO version of the 3.5L EB). fordmantpw….the reg aspirated F-150s, reg cab/ supercab, and to an extent Supercabs sell like bloody hotcakes to business's...currently we are completely sold out and waiting for 19s.....as for the ranger...there WILL be a kickback to those still wary of turbo'ed engines....just like how the 5.0 in the f150 soldiers on... And those folks should like the eventual cheaper V6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 and that's 2 years away....( I speculate ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 And people won't buy V6 F150's either. That’s not the same argument at all; the equivalent argument would be what would happen if they dropped the V8 from the F150 entirely. IMHO, it’s a pretty safe bet that such a move would relegate them to also-rans (unless Fiasco and GM did the same). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) Might we see a 2.7 sans turbos for a base engine? I know no such engine currently exists, but there's plausible reasons for it to happen. First, it'd simplify the engineering and assembly assuming Ranger gets the 2.7eb at some point. Second, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to share the same base engine with the bigger/heavier F150. Finally, a 2.7 will use a little less fuel than a 3.3 which will be taken into account by fleets. Edited August 30, 2018 by Sevensecondsuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Might we see a 2.7 sans turbos for a base engine? I know no such engine currently exists, but there's plausible reasons for it to happen. First, it'd simplify the engineering and assembly assuming Ranger gets the 2.7eb at some point. Second, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to share the same base engine with the bigger/heavier F150. Finally, a 2.7 will use a little less fuel than a 3.3 which will be taken into account by fleets. My first thought would be that a 2.7NA would be redundant because of the 3.3 Then I remembered theres both a 2.7EB and 3.0EB so who knows. Seems like throwing darts really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 That’s not the same argument at all; the equivalent argument would be what would happen if they dropped the V8 from the F150 entirely. IMHO, it’s a pretty safe bet that such a move would relegate them to also-rans (unless Fiasco and GM did the same). Would they lose sales if they dropped the V8? Sure, but I don't think it would relegate them to also-rans at all. You've got a some folks who just have to have the V8, but the majority would buy the V6 if there were no V8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Would they lose sales if they dropped the V8? Sure, but I don't think it would relegate them to also-rans at all. You've got a some folks who just have to have the V8, but the majority would buy the V6 if there were no V8. I disagree, but, regardless, if they got rid of the V8, it would put a significant cap on the F150’s potential. That’s also what the lack of a V6 would do to the Ranger, and that’s why I think it will be coming to the Ranger before too long. If nothing else, you must have a V6 for a Ranger Raptor to be a success in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I disagree, but, regardless, if they got rid of the V8, it would put a significant cap on the F150’s potential. I don't think we will ever find out who is right (or at least not for a long, long time), because I don't expect Ford to cancel the F150 V8 any time soon. If nothing else, you must have a V6 for a Ranger Raptor to be a success in the US. Agreed. An I4 Raptor won't cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I don't think we will ever find out who is right (or at least not for a long, long time), because I don't expect Ford to cancel the F150 V8 any time soon. Which is kind of my point. They’re not going to cap the F150, and I don’t expect them to cap the Ranger, at least not in the long term. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 The 3.3L would not be a base engine in the Ranger, it would be an upgrade. Base would be the 1.5LEB or 2.0LEB. No need for a small V6 with those 2 EB engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) Keep in mind that gasoline engines are basically US centric, so what we're seeing emerging in Explorer/Aviator are probably your RWD engine basics in next gen T6 For global, the 2.0 I-4 diesel and 3.0 V6 Powerstroke will probably be it but I'd love to see the 3.3 V6 hybrid and 3.0 V6 EB as the top dog in Raptor.. Once people get their hands on the 2.3 EB Ranger, you can bet the tuners will come out to play and that's something an atmo V6 from GM or Toyota can never match... Edited August 30, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 If the T6 really can’t accommodate a V6, that would have been a non-starter in the US, and would’ve required a major re-engineering effort, which was also a non-starter at the time. The EcoBoost engines have changed the game, but the Ranger doesn’t have a long-term future as anything but an also-ran if it doesn’t get a V6 in the near future, IMHO. T6 Ranger has been a success worldwide since 2011 without any V6 engine offerings. Its 4 and 5 cylinder gasoline and diesel engines are fine. It would be nice if U.S. market Ranger and Ranger Raptor eventually get the new 2.0L Ecoblue diesel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 T6 Ranger has been a success worldwide since 2011 without any V6 engine offerings. Its 4 and 5 cylinder gasoline and diesel engines are fine. It has, but I’m not talking about succeeding overseas—I’m talking about succeeding in the US. The US market and the ROW markets are very different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 The 3.3L would not be a base engine in the Ranger, it would be an upgrade. Base would be the 1.5LEB or 2.0LEB. No need for a small V6 with those 2 EB engines. I agree that the EB I4s will carry the mail for the Ranger, just like the two EBs do for the F150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 It would be nice if U.S. market Ranger Raptor eventually get the new 2.0L Ecoblue diesel. No. its been pretty well documented that the engine is the sole weak point of the Ranger Raptor, especially in a straight line. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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