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GM sells more trucks then Ford?.

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https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2018/07/12/general-motors-ford-pickup-truck-market-share/767901002/

 

The combined sales of the fullsize, midsize and commercial trucks make an intriguing debate. Also the upcoming, new Silverado MD and HD will make a more interesting Ford/Chevy fight.

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Ford - 2 trucks - F150 and Super Duty

 

GM - 6 trucks - Sierra, Sierra HD, Silverado, Silverado HD, Canyon, Colorado

 

Once Ford adds Ranger they’ll be outselling GM’s 6 trucks with only 3 trucks. That’s a huge advantage to Ford.

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Ford - 2 trucks - F150 and Super Duty

 

GM - 6 trucks - Sierra, Sierra HD, Silverado, Silverado HD, Canyon, Colorado

 

Once Ford adds Ranger they’ll be outselling GM’s 6 trucks with only 3 trucks. That’s a huge advantage to Ford.

 

It'll be interesting to see how much (or whether) F-series sales drop when Ranger arrives.

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Ford - 2 trucks - F150 and Super Duty

 

GM - 6 trucks - Sierra, Sierra HD, Silverado, Silverado HD, Canyon, Colorado

 

Once Ford adds Ranger theyll be outselling GMs 6 trucks with only 3 trucks. Thats a huge advantage to Ford.

Youre forgetting the OHAP Medium duty.

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Youre forgetting the OHAP Medium duty.

 

I didn't think the article was counting medium duty trucks.

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GM just sells more of everything, it's hard to get around that. They sell more Subcompact Utilities, Compact Utility, Midsize Utilities, Full-size Utilities, Trucks, Cars, Luxury, exotics, Electrics, etc. There are a few exceptions like Mustang, Transit, and Hybrids (although Ford has largely left that business for the time being). The difference with GM however is that they have significantly greater product diversity as a company so it's easy to overlook just how many cars GM is actually selling in each market segment.

 

When you throw in the other BOF vehicles into the mix (Tahoe/Suburban/Escalade), GM's truck business is just huge and enormously profitable. I don't think people appreciate how much GM (and others) have overtaken Ford in virtually every product category. GM's Full-size truck business will likely overtake F-Series by the end of next year as F-Series reaches the end of it's product cycle and both RAM and GM start to pile on with some pretty outstanding new trucks in full production. But I actually expect GM's truck business to shrink a bit by the end of the year as they transition. I think Ranger will help to even things out but Ford is in a zero-growth position until beyond 2020. It's more about shuffling customers around than getting more.

 

I think the problem with Ford is just that they aren't really transitioning, they are pulling the plug on the bath water, draining their customers out, and will refill it once they are gone. There is just no transition phase at all. All things considered, I think they are doing a good job keeping things relatively flat overall while selling to other customers. They are facing enormous headwinds (aging fleet, discontinued volume products, slow product rollouts) ahead of their product updates so just keeping their business from shrinking is going to be amazing in itself.

 

I wouldn't say Ford has a ton of new product coming since we are actually losing more products at the same time, but they have enough of the right products coming and they are going to be standouts. I just hope Ford gets all the other pieces into place like launch scheduling which was still a problem as recently as Expedition/Navigator.

Edited by Assimilator

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I read that story this morning. You can arbitrarily skew the stats to mean anything you want and there isn't much of a story here. Of course GM is going to sell more trucks they have a mid size truck and Ford doesn't. Let's talk when it's apples to apples.

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I didn't think the article was counting medium duty trucks.

GM counts EVERYTHING so why shouldnt it count by that logic?

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Why shouldn't GM count the sum of its business against the sum of Ford's business?

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Why shouldn't GM count the sum of its business against the sum of Ford's business?

Because everyone else separates brands and models. It always bothered me that Ford lumps Super Duty sales into F-150 sales. I think everyone should do that.

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I must be mistaken. I was pretty sure it was here that virtually everyone hailed Mulally as a savior when he "right sized" and said "profits over sales trophies"

 

Did we revert to bad habits like Ford management did after Alan retired?

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We can do a postmortem on Ford for days but much of it has to do with the disastrous leadership of Mark Fields who was more interested in pet projects (GT, Ford Performance, Lincoln) than in maintaining or evolving the system Mullally put together to keep their core prioritized. Part of the problem was that Mullally's One Ford approach didn't quite work that well either and Fields didn't know how to manage those teams and was dragging his feet on everything. It meant that Ford couldn't respond to regional market shifts because everything had to be developed under one system and that makes Ford extremely slow and bureaucratic. Ford is still clever but it moves too slowly and remains very inefficient with a weak balance sheet. It also continues to struggle with new product launches, they tend to have far more launch issues than any other company and it's a problem they haven't been able to fix but have had very little new product to launch in recent years to confront again. Ford just got a little too unmotivated and indecisive and that's why we are in this position now (once again). Ford may just be in a more advanced stage of product planning than most because they turned their business around earlier, but the failure to maintain their business and customer base is a pretty big warning sign that they didn't have the right leadership in place for a very long time. But Ford is making some enormous changes now which lets us clearly know they acknowledge the scale of their problems and are building something big to fix it all. They just need time to roll it out. It won't fix everything at Ford but it will return them to some relevancy again.

Edited by Assimilator

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Well prepare for more launch issues with the Ranger.... plant construction is weeks behind schedule

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Ford may just be in a more advanced stage of product planning than most because they turned their business around earlier, but the failure to maintain their business and customer base is a pretty big warning sign that they didn't have the right leadership in place for a very long time. But Ford is making some enormous changes now which lets us clearly know they acknowledge the scale of their problems and are building something big to fix all of their woes. They just need time to roll it out.

 

Well said Assimilator sir. Good summary of Ford's recent history and current situation. Alan Mulally said when he joined Ford that the company was "going out of business for 40 years". When Mulally left and Fields became CEO, Ford reverted to "going out of business" mode again.

 

Good thing for Ford that trucks especially F-Series continue to sell well, even if they are #2 overall behind General Motors. Also Ford truck owners seem to be a loyal bunch. Ford's truck business is strong enough now to allow the company time to fix their problems and come out strong and "fit".

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Well prepare for more launch issues with the Ranger.... plant construction is weeks behind schedule

 

Would you recommend waiting for 2020 model year to buy a new Ford Ranger? Now I'm worried about getting a first model year 2019 Ranger if there are launch issues. I'm willing to go with either 2019 or 2020.

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Would you recommend waiting for 2020 model year to buy a new Ford Ranger? Now I'm worried about getting a first model year 2019 Ranger if there are launch issues. I'm willing to go with either 2019 or 2020.

2020 wont be much better with the Bronco launching.

 

That said, the single reason Im deciding to wait until 2020 is purely financial, otherwise I would be getting one sometime late spring/early summer next year (MY2019)

Edited by fuzzymoomoo

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GM counts EVERYTHING so why shouldnt it count by that logic?

 

The ARTICLE being discussed that quotes SALES FIGURES for the first 6 months only counted Silvererra and Canyorado. You can include medium duty as well if you can find the numbers.

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The ARTICLE being discussed that quotes SALES FIGURES for the first 6 months only counted Silvererra and Canyorado. You can include medium duty as well if you can find the numbers.

I dont think GM has a medium duty at the moment.

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Why shouldn't GM count the sum of its business against the sum of Ford's business?

 

You can but then you also have to look at the other side of the equation. Ford sold almost as many trucks as GM with half the models and fewer plants. Therefore MUCH lower overhead. And Ford's ATPs are MUCH higher so Ford actually brought in more revenue from those 900K sales than GM did with their 950K sales. And with lower overhead and higher ATPs (and half the GM incentives) Ford must have a much higher profit margin.

 

Ford is going for profit margin and revenue while GM goes for volume. I'll take higher ATPs with lower overhead any day.

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I dont think GM has a medium duty at the moment.

 

Oh I missed your point. Not sure there were enough of those sales to make a difference but I agree in that case they should be included.

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Year to Date Sales:

 

F Series...................451,138

 

Silverado..................291,074.

Sierra........................100,874

Total..........................391,148

 

 

 

Silverado..................291,074.

Sierra........................100,874

Colorado.....................69,875

Canyon.......................16,848

Total..........................478,671

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Year to Date Sales:

 

F Series...................451,138

 

Silverado..................291,074.

Sierra........................100,874

Total..........................391,148

 

 

 

Silverado..................291,074.

Sierra........................100,874

Colorado.....................69,875

Canyon.......................16,848

Total..........................478,671

 

Thank you for sharing the sales numbers for 1st half of 2018. The 929,809 trucks these two American companies sold are 2/3 of all new pickup truck sales so far this year in the U.S. market!

 

Looks like protectionism with the 25% chicken tariff works well for keeping U.S. based automakers (GM and Ford) so dominant in this segment. The other American automaker, Tesla, will dominate the pure electric pickup truck market in a few years.

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Ford is moving to hybrid and PHEV options in the not too distant future,

The 3.3V6 hybrid announced for the CD6 PIU and the 3.0 TTV6 PHEV

that will go int the Aviator herald a new beginning for Fords larger Utes

and trucks in the next few years.

 

While Tesla grabs the headlines with a BEV truck, I think the heavy lifting

of converting class 1 and 2a trucks to hybrids and PHEVS will fall to the

established mass producers, Ford and GM

Edited by jpd80

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The other American automaker, Tesla, will dominate the pure electric pickup truck market in a few years.

 

Based on a photo or two and promises that lure investors and potential customers willing to put down deposits and wait years for a possible vehicle?

 

Per jpd80's message a few moments ago... Ford is taking Hybrid and PHEV systems mainstream with applications across the majority of models in the not too distant future. No question that GM's and Dodge/RAM pickups have improved in recent years. But just when the competition thinks they've caught up, Ford leapfrogs them all with new features and technology. And Ford customers are more than willing to pay Ford's prices, with lower incentives than the competition, driving ATP's and profits even higher.

 

There's a reason why Ford F-Series have dominated the pickup market for 41 years!

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And if Ford was to ever make NG Ranger about three inches wider,

they could call it F100 and really go to work at MAP

 

(Not happening by the way)

Edited by jpd80

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