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Harley Lover

Ford slides deeper into China rut after worst sales ever

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I do think Ford will set the standard for the industry when it comes to electrification, perhaps not BEVs but definitely Hybrids which has been mishandled by the industry at-large. I'm excited to see how Ford makes Hybrids mainstream and desirable again. Ford's BEV program is less interesting right now but I think the Mach1 will be the right product to bring them back to the BEV market and should appeal to far more customers. It won't be the only one, the Mach1 really is the agreed upon shape of the mainstream BEV market, all the big boys will have something similar.

 

I was just reading an autoblog article on how Hyundai was partnering with some company here to develop solid state batteries, and how "solid-state batteries eliminate flammable liquid electrolytes, and they promise the potential of more capacity and faster charging times."

 

It also said "Toyota says it will have them in cars by 2022. Fisker is also aiming for early 2020s for its own solid-state batteries. Honda, Nissan, BMW and VW are all reportedly working on solid-state batteries, too"

 

Could Ford jump ahead of everyone and have solid state batteries ready to go for the Mach 1? Ford does like to play leap frog.

 

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/07/10/hyundai-solid-state-battery-ionic-materials/

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Also pretty much everyone agrees with you that the way theyre handling the whole cancelling cars thing was totally stupid. The PR department needs a serious overhaul and fast.

 

It wasn't the PR department that announced it, that was done by Bob Shanks trying to be a big shot and impress Wall Street during a call. He effed up and was probably speaking out of school. Interesting we haven't heard his wisdom publicly since then.

Edited by Harley Lover

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It wasn't the PR department that announced it, that was done by Bob Shanks trying to be a big shot and impress Wall Street during a call. He effed up and was probably speaking out of school. Interesting we haven't heard his wisdom publicly since then.

Even so, great job by the PR department in cleaning up the mess

 

Its like they cleaned up an oil spill with a trash bag

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Ford's delay in BEVs isn't unique in the industry and that's because they are still developing the right battery technology before investing into an old one which is too expensive and not scalable. They can see the future but it's still in development. Detroit is not very forthcoming about its battery development but I'm assuming they are working with their suppliers on Solid State. Ford has no intention of fabricating their own batteries and solid state is not part of their hybrid program at all. The Mach 1 is arriving late 2021 as a 2022 model is is powered by Lithium Ion batteries. The battery pack is designed to be more easily serviceable so that segments of the battery can be replaced instead of the entire pack which is enormously costly. Ford batteries are produced by LG Chem and manufactured in Holland MI.

Edited by Assimilator

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Even so, great job by the PR department in cleaning up the mess

 

Its like they cleaned up an oil spill with a trash bag

Youre never going to kill that news in this media environment. Best thing you could hope for is a really big news story the same day, like releasing a recall when your competitors have a much bigger recall.

 

Ford PR did the best thing they could after someone 💩 on the dinner table. Comment they are committed to the changing market, and then just ignore it and launch new product. It hasnt helped that they have nothing new coming until Fall. Wall Street sometimes needs to wait. What difference is it if the stock is at $8 a share or $20. If youre not selling it to raise capital it really means nothing for the company. Fords main problem with the stock price is that there are about 4 billion outstanding shares.

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Here is another example of why Ford is sucking wind... GM just revealed the new Chevy Orlando - a short C utility that Ford desperately need in its line up.

 

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Orlando slots in between Trax and Equinox and joins the other Chevy models in a line up that covers 30% more segments than Ford. Remember - Chevy is GM's 4th most popular brand in China. I'm not even going to point out the coverage of Buick, Wuling, and Baojun.

 

Segment / Chevy / Ford

 

B-value sedan: Sail / n/a

B-value hatch: Lova / n/a

C-value sedan: Cavalier / Escort

C-premium sedan: Cruze / Focus

C-premium hatch: Cruze / Focus

D-value sedan: Malibu / n/a

D-premium sedan: Malibu XL / Mondeo

E-sedan: n/a / Taurus [GM has Buick Lacrosse which dominates sales in this segment]

 

B-segment CUV: Trax / EcoSport

C-short CUV: Orlando / n/a

C-long CUV: Equinox / Kuga

D-CUV: n/a / Edge [Chevy Blazer is planned for China]

 

Look at all the n/a on Ford's side vs. GM's number 4 volume brand in China.

Edited by bzcat

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Ford says they are rolling out a ton of new products so we'll see, it's a mystery right now because it's hard to imagine Ford going from Zero to 100 in so many places when they've been dragging their feet for so long. At some point the switch has to flip, but I don't think Ford is going to restore its business overnight, it's going to take many many years to catch up again. I've never seen Ford in such a poor position but I'm also very confident in their future product.

Edited by Assimilator

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Fords new product ETA versus Global Warming?

I think the glaciers will melt first.........

Edited by jpd80

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The new plant was going to cost over $1.6B. They cancelled it and said we'll import Focus. There's your cost savings.

Ford said it would kill plans to build a $1.8 billion Focus plant in San Luis Potosi and instead produce the new Focus at an existing plant in Hermosillo.

 

Ford took a $200 million hit to its finances by cancelling a new plant in Mexico.

 

Although it is cheaper to build and ship cars to the United States from Mexico than China, “this was not a variable cost decision,” Hinrichs said in a briefing.

 

And the not talked about associated costs - In announcing its plans for the Focus in China, where it expects production of the new model to begin in the second half of 2019, Ford did not specify the costs related to the decision. A company spokeswoman, Kelli Felker, said adding production to its existing Chinese plants would require a “relatively small investment.”

The move may also affect suppliers that currently produce parts for the Focus made in Michigan.

According to Transportation Department data, about 46 percent of the parts for the American-made Focus are produced in the United States and Canada.

Ms. Felker said there was no information available on where parts were manufactured for Focuses currently made in China

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The Chevy Orlando reminds me a of a Jeep-Not a bad thing-But why aren't they selling it in North America?

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Still slightly amazed that Ford had one of the best lineups 6 years ago to sucking wind like they are now in most products. The next 18 months should help, but at the same time some of this stuff should have been out sooner then this.

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Still slightly amazed that Ford had one of the best lineups 6 years ago to sucking wind like they are now in most products. The next 18 months should help, but at the same time some of this stuff should have been out sooner then this.

And thats why the hair is no longer in charge.

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And thats why the hair is no longer in charge.

 

 

In all seriousness- given the product refreshes/updates/etc that we've seen in the past 24 months-some of this had to be from when Mulally was still in charge.

 

The only updates that where decent since he left and now where the 2015 Mustang and the F-series updates..the rest of the products weren't changed enough or new products should have been here sooner.

 

He left July 2014-so the Focus and Fusion updates are under his watch

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In all seriousness- given the product refreshes/updates/etc that we've seen in the past 24 months-some of this had to be from when Mulally was still in charge.

 

The only updates that where decent since he left and now where the 2015 Mustang and the F-series updates..the rest of the products weren't changed enough or new products should have been here sooner.

 

He left July 2014-so the Focus and Fusion updates are under his watch

We know for certain Fields delayed the new Explorer (anything CD6 related really).

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Refreshes are normally a 1-2 year cycle plus I think Fields actually delayed or stopped things that were already in progress (such as CD6 Explorer per Fuzzy above). I think this is solidly on Fields.

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The Chevy Orlando reminds me a of a Jeep-Not a bad thing-But why aren't they selling it in North America?

 

I'm sure it will show up here as well; use it as a bargaining chip for product for Lordstown in contracts next year.

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I'm sure it will show up here as well; use it as a bargaining chip for product for Lordstown in contracts next year.

I drove by Lordstown last Wednesday around 6pm or so and the parking lot was empty. Not much action at that massive plant at that time.

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I drove by Lordstown last Wednesday around 6pm or so and the parking lot was empty. Not much action at that massive plant at that time.

Thats because it was shutdown. All of the big 3 plants shut down the first 2 weeks of July, though some only do the week of the 4th.

 

They also probably have intermittent down weeks to sell down inventory like we had at MAP the last few years.

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I drove by Lordstown last Wednesday around 6pm or so and the parking lot was empty. Not much action at that massive plant at that time.

Are they down to one shift now? I know they cut the 3rd.

Edited by jasonj80

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We know for certain Fields delayed the new Explorer (anything CD6 related really).

 

 

 

In all seriousness- given the product refreshes/updates/etc that we've seen in the past 24 months-some of this had to be from when Mulally was still in charge.

 

The only updates that where decent since he left and now where the 2015 Mustang and the F-series updates..the rest of the products weren't changed enough or new products should have been here sooner.

 

He left July 2014-so the Focus and Fusion updates are under his watch

Mulally only intended the C1 and CD4 products to be company unifiers to enable reductions in platform count,

those vehicles were never intended to go on and on, it was Fields keeping them in there on justifiaction

that they were still selling well plus the wrong prediction of an industry slow down that didn't happen

after the election...that forcing of one more MCE (three years) out of tired vehicles is what's

hurting sales although, Explorer, Edge and Escape have all done a mighty job.

 

Ford has this perception of being years late with refreshing product but as we've seen with Expedition

and Navigator, they can do great work so I hope that Explorer /Aviator is the catalyst for more moves

in the right direction. I've said before that I don't believe that product below $30K add much to Ford's

profits, they probably cover costs but their new product cycles are costly with lots of bucks to find

up front so if it came to a choice between Escape/Edge and Expedition/Explorer, i'd take the latter

as being higher priority but it shouldn't have to be an either / or choice for a company with billions

in the coffers.

Edited by jpd80

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Ford generally has longer than industry average product lifecycles, unless it's the F-Series. Nobody I know claims Field's delayed products. The reality is that all of the new products are massive technical undertakings and are more than just new cars but very innovative platforms for new technologies timed with a major factory and product transition. As late as Ford can be, they usually show up with more than just a restyle and that's happening across the board in this case. To me the North American product count and pacing looks comparatively light next to GM's incredible onslaught, but Ford is making every product count with new technologies I don't see happening at GM or FCA. I certainly have plenty to look forward to as a buyer and they are doing everything I wanted/predicted them to do.

Edited by Assimilator

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Ford generally has longer than industry average product lifecycles, unless it's the F-Series. Nobody I know claims Field's delayed products. The reality is that all of the new products are massive technical undertakings and are more than just new cars but very innovative platforms for new technologies. As late as Ford can be, they usually show up with more than just a restyle and that's happening across the board in this case. To me the North American product count and pacing looks comparatively light next to GM's incredible onslaught, but Ford is making every product count with new technologies I don't see happening at GM or FCA. I certainly have plenty to look forward to as a buyer and they are doing everything I wanted/predicted them to do.

 

Fields absolutely delayed the CD6 Explorer and Aviator programs and Hackett put those back on the fast track.

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Yeah, that's not true. They were always timed for 2020, along with Aviator, LONG before Hackett. I don't know where this is coming from but it's false.

Edited by Assimilator

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I'll take the word of insiders actually working on those projects over yours.

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