Sales Charts for Mid-sized Sedans and Top selling CUVs

[Assimilator]

The current F150 is still the best looking truck and at best the new trucks from GM and RAM are just getting even. They’re certainly not ahead.

 

3 year major updates are the best you’re going to see. Anything more frequent is just wasting money.

 

F150 is the one vehicle that Ford does right in terms of refreshes and updates and it’s still class leading.

 

 

The F-Series is a good looking truck but I would place it 3rd or 4th behind Ram/Chevy/GMC at this point. F-150 has a very simple boxy design that they tend to favor, it fits their industrial design aesthetic well but it was also old-news when it hit the shelves back in 2015. I think my truck is handsome but I parked next to the NEW Silverado and RAM at Costco this weekend and it really did look like it came from the 2000's next to the new guys. The F-Series has the substance but it's visually pretty stale and the interior needs some significant upgrading to bring it out of the 2000's they've been stuck-in for a little too long now.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Assimilator

[akirby]

Luckily you’re the only one who feels that way.

[tbone]

 

 

The F-Series is a good looking truck but I would place it 3rd of 4th behind Ram/Chevy/GMC at this point. F-150 has a very simple boxy design that they tend to favor, it fits their industrial design aesthetic well but it was also old-news when it hit the shelves back in 2015. I think my truck is handsome but I parked next to the NEW Silverado and RAM at Costco this weekend and it really did look like it came from the 2000's next to the new guys. The F-Series has the substance but it's visually pretty stale and the interior needs some significant upgrading to bring it out of the 2000's they've been stuck-in for a little too long now.

Apparently you have not been in the Ram or the Chevy. Perhaps you are referring to a 2019 Ram and next gen Chevy? Nevertheless, IMO you are wrong, even though I tend to like Rams. Why did you buy a vehicle you dont find appealing, considering the options out there? Edited May 23, 2018 by tbone

[ANTAUS]

So walking away from 300K Fusion sales, maybe 40K from Taurus, another 30K from Fiesta, and 150K from Focus. About 500-550K yearly units...how many vehicles do they plan to introduce to make up for that...Of course, that's IF they want to grow market share...for the past decade it looks like Ford just wants to "maintain" market share.

[akirby]

But it’s not 300K Fusion sales - more like 200K. But walking away from unprofitable or less profitable market share and replacing it with higher margin vehicles is good business even if market share drops a little. People aren’t buying Titanium Focus and Fusion - most sales seem to be SEs and are selling on price alone with $4K on the hood.

 

The only danger is if the new vehicles and other initiatives (like the autonomous car management platform, hybrid everything) go bust or there is a huge market shift back to cars, neither of which is likely.

 

With higher margins, they can make more money on the same investment or make the same profit on less investment.

 

And it’s not that they don’t want to grow market share - they just don’t want to grow it at the expense of profits or margin. Investing in a vehicle that would only return 2% - 4% margin is less attractive than something else that promises 8% or higher and that includes some non-vehicle initiatives. Ford, like every other business, has a cap on how much they can invest each year. It’s not possible to do everything at the same time.

[pictor]

It had been years since they sold 300000 Fusions

[rperez817]

Luckily you’re the only one who feels that way.

 

Assimilator is definitely not the only one who agrees with post #26. Ask people who don't own a full size pickup truck to compare current F-150 with 2019 redesigns of Silverado, Sierra, and Ram 1500. Which truck looks the most modern? More often than not those people's answer won't be F-150.

 

Luckily for Ford, F-150 has substance as Assimilator mentioned. It's a very competitive product overall, easily among the best vehicles Ford makes. Also Ford does a good job marketing the truck, and it has high owner loyalty.

[rmc523]

 

 

The F-Series is a good looking truck but I would place it 3rd of 4th behind Ram/Chevy/GMC at this point. F-150 has a very simple boxy design that they tend to favor, it fits their industrial design aesthetic well but it was also old-news when it hit the shelves back in 2015. I think my truck is handsome but I parked next to the NEW Silverado and RAM at Costco this weekend and it really did look like it came from the 2000's next to the new guys. The F-Series has the substance but it's visually pretty stale and the interior needs some significant upgrading to bring it out of the 2000's they've been stuck-in for a little too long now.

 

I disagree with the 2000s comment.....I'll agree they could make it "nicer" (especially for Expy use), but even if I give you the 2000s comment, it's better than the 80s look the GM trucks still have inside.

 

 

Assimilator is definitely not the only one who agrees with post #26. Ask people who don't own a full size pickup truck to compare current F-150 with 2019 redesigns of Silverado, Sierra, and Ram 1500. Which truck looks the most modern? More often than not those people's answer won't be F-150.

 

Luckily for Ford, F-150 has substance as Assimilator mentioned. It's a very competitive product overall, easily among the best vehicles Ford makes. Also Ford does a good job marketing the truck, and it has high owner loyalty.

 

I would hope the brand new/all new models for 2019 would look more modern than a truck that came out in 2015 (with a front end refresh for 2018).

 

The reality is, it's just a matter of the product cycles being misaligned. Naturally F-150 will look "old" compared to new models this year. The same will be true in reverse when the next-gen F-150 debuts.

 

He's making it out to be an Expy/Navi situation as if Ford is just sitting around doing nothing, letting the product coast forever, when that's definitely not the case at all.

[rmc523]

So walking away from 300K Fusion sales, maybe 40K from Taurus, another 30K from Fiesta, and 150K from Focus. About 500-550K yearly units...how many vehicles do they plan to introduce to make up for that...Of course, that's IF they want to grow market share...for the past decade it looks like Ford just wants to "maintain" market share.

 

I don't know why people keep counting the 150k of Focus as lost volume that isn't coming back. There's a Focus replacement coming.

[itguy09]

 

Assimilator is definitely not the only one who agrees with post #26. Ask people who don't own a full size pickup truck to compare current F-150 with 2019 redesigns of Silverado, Sierra, and Ram 1500. Which truck looks the most modern? More often than not those people's answer won't be F-150.

 

I've seen them in pictures (as have we all) and the GM looks like the last generation.

 

Ram is pretty much FUGLY, IMHO. They lost their "distinctive" but stone age old design and went for a GM clone design. The powertrains are the same. The only nice thing is that screen - that is a nice addition. The rest is the same old flash of dubious quality and low capability compared to the rest.

[akirby]

Assimilator is definitely not the only one who agrees with post #26. Ask people who don't own a full size pickup truck to compare current F-150 with 2019 redesigns of Silverado, Sierra, and Ram 1500. Which truck looks the most modern? More often than not those people's answer won't be F-150.

 

Opinions of people who aren’t buying a full sized truck don’t count. People who are buying full sized trucks are still choosing F150 over the others and unless F150 sales drop drastically it’s not an issue.

 

Or to look at another way - even if the current F150 is stale compared to the new trucks then it was still the leader for the last 4 years and when it gets updated in 2 years it will be #1 again. You can’t be the newest every year.

 

I still say at best Ram and Silverado just caught up to F150, not surpassed them. We’ll just have to wait and see what happens with sales.

[jcartwright99]

In regards to the Edge/Nautilus, I think the 8 speed plus the addition of the ST (will Lincoln get a lux/sport version of the ST?) will keep it fresh for a few more years. I am really curious what this will do for the MPG. Standard engine has 250 horses and then optional engine should be 335. When do you think we'll start to get hints about the Explorer hybrid (specs)? I can't believe but we are a week away from June so we are nearing the half way point this year...yikes! Time is flying by.

[rperez817]

I still say at best Ram and Silverado just caught up to F150, not surpassed them. We’ll just have to wait and see what happens with sales.

 

I agree that we'll have to wait and see with sales and market trends for the automakers that sell LD full size pickups. It will be interesting for sure!

 

Competition in the full size truck market has really intensified in the past 5 years. FCA set the benchmark for LD full size pickups with the refreshed 2013 Ram 1500. It won Motor Trend Truck of the Year two years in a row 2013 and 2014. GM upped its game and tried to catch up with the 2014 K2XX trucks, and Ford did the same in 2015 with F-150. Then for 2018, Ford fixed most of the issues with 2015-2017 F-150, and the refreshed version became the new benchmark for LD full size pickup trucks (Motor Trend Truck of the Year 2018).

 

For 2019, both Ram and GM have all new LD full size pickups. I think once FCA gets their launch and production issues ironed out for 2019 Ram 1500, it will gain the most market share in the next few years. For the way most LD full size pickup truck retail buyers use these vehicles, 2019 Ram is closest to the ideal product.

[Kev-Mo]

.

It'll be interesting to see what a Focus "Activ" hatchback will do against it...

Ask a Millennial - the reply: "Ford who?..."

[rmc523]

In regards to the Edge/Nautilus, I think the 8 speed plus the addition of the ST (will Lincoln get a lux/sport version of the ST?) will keep it fresh for a few more years. I am really curious what this will do for the MPG. Standard engine has 250 horses and then optional engine should be 335. When do you think we'll start to get hints about the Explorer hybrid (specs)? I can't believe but we are a week away from June so we are nearing the half way point this year...yikes! Time is flying by.

 

Unless it gets its own event, likely NAIAS debuting the production model if I had to guess.

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

Unless it gets its own event, likely NAIAS debuting the production model if I had to guess.

Chicago could get it since thats where its being built

[LSchicago]

Ask a Millennial - the reply: "Ford who?..."

Thankfully not my son. He looked at the Focus RS when they came out, then bought a lightly used 2013 GT500.

[rmc523]

Chicago could get it since thats where its being built

 

That's true.

 

Perhaps with Aviator at NAIAS?

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

That's true.

 

Perhaps with Aviator at NAIAS?

There or LA.

[itguy09]

Competition in the full size truck market has really intensified in the past 5 years. FCA set the benchmark for LD full size pickups with the refreshed 2013 Ram 1500. It won Motor Trend Truck of the Year two years in a row 2013 and 2014. GM upped its game and tried to catch up with the 2014 K2XX trucks, and Ford did the same in 2015 with F-150. Then for 2018, Ford fixed most of the issues with 2015-2017 F-150, and the refreshed version became the new benchmark for LD full size pickup trucks (Motor Trend Truck of the Year 2018).

 

The back to back nonsense was BS then and it's still BS today. Here's the same truck with an unreliable and expensive Diesel, oh, and it has less capacity than a car. And that was enough to get the TOTY? Seriously?

 

I'm curious what benchmark set in LD pickups in 2013? It wasn't capability - they were the weakest of ALL LD trucks (lowest towing, lowest payload, lowest performance). It may have been "nice ride" but that's what the Ridgeline is for. It sure wasn't reliability - Ram is still the worst of the trucks. So what was this benchmark that they set?

Edited May 23, 2018 by itguy09

[bzcat]

So walking away from 300K Fusion sales, maybe 40K from Taurus, another 30K from Fiesta, and 150K from Focus. About 500-550K yearly units...how many vehicles do they plan to introduce to make up for that...Of course, that's IF they want to grow market share...for the past decade it looks like Ford just wants to "maintain" market share.

 

Huh? Why do you assume those sales will go away or that Ford sales will decline? Ford is adding 5 new name plates by 2022 to replace 4 that is going away (plus one that is actually not going away). And the 5 new ones are in the growth segments while the 4 going away are in decline.

 

 

Look at this chart and tell us which side the auto market is the growing side. And I will remind you that this is while gas prices are going up (almost 50% since 2014).

 

1 Fiesta --> EcoSport is really what the market wants anyway and Ford will design a proper replacement for sure

2 C-Max --> CX430 utility (new #1 on sale by 2020)

3 Focus --> Focus Active

4 Fusion --> TBD white space vehicle (new #2 on sale by 2022)

5 Taurus --> Fullsize sedan market is in terminal decline

N/A --> Ranger (new #3 on sale by 2019)

N/A --> Bronco (new #4 on sale by 2020)

N/A --> MACH 1 (new #5 on sale by 2020 but maybe more like 2021)

 

You are seriously saying with a straight face that Ford won't be able to replace 500k sales in sedans because they replaced the 5 cars with the kind of vehicle that people actually want to buy?

 

I mean look at the sales of Subaru Impreza vs. Crosstrek and you still think Ford can't sell half as many (if not more) Focus Active than it does regular Focus now? And at a healthier profit margin too?

 

Ranger + Bronco should be good for 200k all by themselves. CX430 has a full plant allocated to it right now in Mexico that can crank out 300k. That's 500k before we even get to MACH 1 and the supposed Fusion replacement.

Edited May 23, 2018 by bzcat

[Assimilator]

Again, I'm not saying the F-Series is ugly or old, just that when I see the 2019 RAM or Silverado (just saw one on Sunday at Costco in the flesh for the first time since the debut)...I start to envy them as something noticeably fresher and more modern to look at. I think F-150 interiors have been lagging RAM for awhile now and that gap has really grown with the new truck, but I'm not really celebrating GM's interior design either. Ford is OK but I think the playing field has been leveled significantly and I suspect there will be a significant hit to their bottomline going forward which is another reason they need to get their assets in shape. If they are having a hard time making money now, it's not going to get better when F-150 starts feeling competitive pressure. I know Ford is refreshing the F-Series again and I trust them to keep it in shape, but I don't think we are going to see the 2015 revolution again that launches them clear over the mountain so I think it's just important to keep in mind when looking at their immediate future which is probably going to look a little grim for a few years as they kill some products and prepare new ones.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Assimilator

[akirby]

 

I'm curious what benchmark set in LD pickups in 2013?

 

The rperez benchmark......

[fordmantpw]

 

The rperez benchmark......

 

Yes sir, you are correct.

[Kev-Mo]

Thankfully not my son. He looked at the Focus RS when they came out, then bought a lightly used 2013 GT500.

Your son is very fortunate. Most Millennials can't afford that level of car, nor can they afford what Ford gets for FSeries trucks and that explains why they drive Tacoma and Crosstrek.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Kev-Mo