Lincoln “Committed” To Sedans Despite Ford’s Decision To Drop Them

[bzcat]

 

Why would an option not be 1 CD6 sedan (perhaps with 2 wheelbases)?

 

I also don't understand your "at the expense of Explorer/Aviator production" comment - With Mustang also being on CD6, you could make it at Flat Rock like Conti is now, leaving Explorer/Aviator unaffected.

 

1 CD6 sedan strategy won't work because of China. Lincoln needs to add volume and grow the brand in China and compact sedan is where the action is, not large sedan. The growth of Audi, BMW, and Mercedes in China are all projected to come from FWD compact sedans and CUVs (e.g. A3/Q3, 1-series/X1/X2, A-class/GLA/GLB). The large luxury sedan market where CD6 Lincoln will play has basically reached saturation in China. No new entrant is going to make a big dent.

 

And since Ford is not going to build a new plant in China to build just a CD6 Lincoln sedan, it obviously will come out the same plant as Explorer and Aviator over there. So the investment in a CD6 Lincoln sedan has to take into account any lost volume that could have gone to building more luxury SUVs.

[rmc523]

I think Mustang and Explorer will shoulder the majority of the engineering heavy lifting on suspensions, drivetrains, systems, etc. And a CD6 MKZ replacement could garner higher ATPs and compete more with BMW than Lexus. But volume will still be relatively low. Doing a SWB/LWB to replace both mkz and conti would make sense if they go that route.

 

In the end I think it will come down to plant capacity and whether they need something in Flat Rock to increase utilization. Otherwise it probably wouldn't make business sense by itself.

 

The Autoline report said the next-gen Transit Connect is going to flat rock and going to be the AV.....not sure I believe that.

 

 

1 CD6 sedan strategy won't work because of China. Lincoln needs to add volume and grow the brand in China and compact sedan is where the action is, not large sedan. The growth of Audi, BMW, and Mercedes in China are all projected to come from FWD compact sedans and CUVs (e.g. A3/Q3, 1-series/X1/X2, A-class/GLA/GLB). The large luxury sedan market where CD6 Lincoln will play has basically reached saturation in China. No new entrant is going to make a big dent.

 

And since Ford is not going to build a new plant in China to build just a CD6 Lincoln sedan, it obviously will come out the same plant as Explorer and Aviator over there. So the investment in a CD6 Lincoln sedan has to take into account any lost volume that could have gone to building more luxury SUVs.

 

As I already pointed out, it could be built alongside Mustang at Flat Rock as it already is...

[akirby]

 

The Autoline report said the next-gen Transit Connect is going to flat rock and going to be the AV.....not sure I believe that.

 

We know the AV will be built at FR and we know it's a commercial vehicle. Not a stretch to think it's TC.

 

 

As I already pointed out, it could be built alongside Mustang at Flat Rock as it already is...

 

He was talking about the China factory, not North America.

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

We know the AV will be built at FR and we know it's a commercial vehicle. Not a stretch to think it's TC.

Until the last few days I was under the impression it was something completely new and different. Not that Transit Connect doesnt make sense because it does 100%.

[akirby]

Until the last few days I was under the impression it was something completely new and different. Not that Transit Connect doesnt make sense because it does 100%.

 

Maybe you were thinking of the EV not the AV. I always assumed it would be an existing commercial vehicle of some kind (truck or van) as soon as they indicated it would be for commercial fleets.

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

Maybe you were thinking of the EV not the AV. I always assumed it would be an existing commercial vehicle of some kind (truck or van) as soon as they indicated it would be for commercial fleets.

I dont know why but when Hackett said the Fusion wasnt the right platform for autonomous technology I took that as they were working on something specifically for that with a new name and everything

[akirby]

I dont know why but when Hackett said the Fusion wasnt the right platform for autonomous technology I took that as they were working on something specifically for that with a new name and everything

 

I think you missed the part where they said they were going after commercial fleets only.

[rmc523]

 

We know the AV will be built at FR and we know it's a commercial vehicle. Not a stretch to think it's TC.

 

 

 

He was talking about the China factory, not North America.

 

Ahh, whoops, now I see what he was saying.

 

Until the last few days I was under the impression it was something completely new and different. Not that Transit Connect doesnt make sense because it does 100%.

 

I too thought it'd be a unique model - I was expecting a boxy "pod", but not a modified existing vehicle.

 

 

I think you missed the part where they said they were going after commercial fleets only.

 

I was under the same impression.

[Assimilator]

It should be noted that Fields made the announcement regarding FlatRock and the Autonomous Vehicle investment, those things may have changed under Hackett who has warned they are less interested in meeting a schedule and more interested in getting it right. Their autonomous strategy has grown considerably more quiet after Fields left.

[Fgts]

Im not even sure theyve made it that far. Mule mustangs havent really been out with exception of the GT500 and the mule Explorers are all Explorers right now since thats launching next year.

A while for a response, the driveline (engines/trans) suspension, HVAC and telematics are probably in the Explorer mules, so (IMO) when the Mustang, Continental, etc. gets thier bodies Ford can plug & play whatever lessons they got from Explorer and go from there, I think that's how they did it when the Fox body was developed.

[Fgts]

With the Focus disaster on their hands currently I don't expect anything from China, Lincoln would probably still get a stand-alone CD6 Continental replacement and a CD6 MKZ ("4-door-coupe) both IMO will have an convertible options makes the grand total of 2 sedans. The MKZ would probably be shared with Ford as it's only sedan.

[ehaase]

I expect Lincoln's lineup by 2021 to be Navigator, Aviator, Nautilus, and Corsair, with no sedans or coupes. Ford is in too much debt to waste money on fluff like CD6 sedans that have no return on investment.

[Fgts]

I expect Lincoln's lineup by 2021 to be Navigator, Aviator, Nautilus, and Corsair, with no sedans or coupes. Ford is in too much debt to waste money on fluff like CD6 sedans that have no return on investment.

How is it fluff if the money is spent on the entire project?, unless they aiming for a unrealistic goal of 10% ROI on its entire lineup. Not everyone wants a jimbob pick-up/suv

[akirby]

How is it fluff if the money is spent on the entire project?, unless they aiming for a unrealistic goal of 10% ROI on its entire lineup. Not everyone wants a jimbob pick-up/suv

You really haven’t been paying attention.

[Fgts]

You really havent been paying attention.

Just an open ended statement?.

[ehaase]

Not everyone wants a jimbob pick-up/suv

Very high percentage of Americans with six figure incomes who can afford expensive new vehicles do want pickups and SUV's.

[Fgts]

Very high percentage of Americans with six figure incomes who can afford expensive new vehicles do want pickups and SUV's.

Yea we know, there's still millions of buyers that have don't want that type of vehicle, especially new young city dwellers, performance car buyers and white-collar commuters. Don't need a sheep-hauler in NYC, DC, Philadelphia or awd/4x4 in southern FL, California, etc.

 

Not saying they should become BMW but don't think a 1 sedan or so for Lincoln is a waste of time.

[akirby]

Not saying they should become BMW but don't think a 1 sedan or so for Lincoln is a waste of time.

It’s not provided they can get higher ATPs with PHEVs and high performance versions.

 

But you implied that all Ford was making was trucks and rugged SUVs. You’re ignoring crossovers which is where the growth is and that’s where Ford will have at least 5 new entries. It’s not just trucks and SUVs.

[Fgts]

Its not provided they can get higher ATPs with PHEVs and high performance versions.

 

But you implied that all Ford was making was trucks and rugged SUVs. Youre ignoring crossovers which is where the growth is and thats where Ford will have at least 5 new entries. Its not just trucks and SUVs.

Same applies to crossovers also, it's plenty of buyers that doesn't want one. If the imports and "cross-town" rivals can offer full-line of trucks/suv/crossovers with a sedan why can't Lincoln?.

[Fgts]

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180827/RETAIL01/180829819/ford-sedan-shoppers?X-IgnoreUserAgent=1

 

Further proof...

[fuzzymoomoo]

They need to do some educating.

HAHAHAHAHAHA oh man I have zero faith the current management team will do that. Theyve failed hard at it so far.

 

Of course GM will capitalize on it. Everyone not named FCA will.

[tbone]

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180827/RETAIL01/180829819/ford-sedan-shoppers?X-IgnoreUserAgent=1

 

Further proof...

Im a Ford truck and SUV buyer, but I think a full exit from the sedan market is rediculous, particularly when a sedan can share a platform with a crossover. Ford will shed customers to other brands because of it and that is a shame. Yes I recognize the sedan market is shrinking but it wont disappear and it could possibly return at some point. Ultimately this whole ordeal is a public relations nightmare. Its been said before, their PR department needs to be dumped ASAP. Way to many bungled communications to the public, which are incredibly embarrassing and damaging.

[silvrsvt]

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180827/RETAIL01/180829819/ford-sedan-shoppers?X-IgnoreUserAgent=1

 

Further proof...

 

 

Many Ford owners surveyed said they'll likely buy their next vehicle from one of Ford's rivals. Among Ford sedan owners, half said they would switch to a new or used car from another automaker for their next vehicle. Only 10 percent said they would get a new crossover or SUV from Ford; 5 percent said they'll get a Ford Mustang and 3 percent said they will drive a new Ford pickup.

 

While the survey's sample size is small — of the 2,697 responders, only 104 owned Ford vehicles — it highlights the problems Ford faces as it repositions its lineup. And it suggests that, although Ford has said it will replace its sedans with new vehicles at similar prices, the public might not yet understand that strategy.

 

If anything that speaks to me that people are purely buying a Ford car based product purely on price-and as stated later in the article 54% of people buying a Fusion (cheap) went to other brands anyways.

[silvrsvt]

Im a Ford truck and SUV buyer, but I think a full exit from the sedan market is rediculous, particularly when a sedan can share a platform with a crossover. Ford will shed customers to other brands because of it and that is a shame. Yes I recognize the sedan market is shrinking but it wont disappear and it could possibly return at some point. Ultimately this whole ordeal is a public relations nightmare. Its been said before, their PR department needs to be dumped ASAP. Way to many bungled communications to the public, which are incredibly embarrassing and damaging.

 

At the same time, why bother with a "cheap" product like a sedan if you don't have to? What is the point of bringing a product to market if you can't make $$$. People will pay $$$ on a CUV, not a sedan. The price difference is eye opening too.

[tbone]

 

At the same time, why bother with a "cheap" product like a sedan if you don't have to? What is the point of bringing a product to market if you can't make $$$. People will pay $$$ on a CUV, not a sedan. The price difference is eye opening too.

IMO, its because to have a good experience with an entry level type vehicle, i.e. cheap, can lead to your next vehicle being another Ford. My first truck was a cheap Ranger, and that led me to continue to buy Fords to this day. Sure I can be an anomaly, but I dont think so. Just look at the repeat Honda and Toyota buyers.