Lincoln “Committed” To Sedans Despite Ford’s Decision To Drop Them

[RadicalX]

With CD6 it will be easy for Lincoln to have a sedan to please enthusiasts. Maybe a hybrid rear wheel drive luxury sedan

[akirby]

With CD6 it will be easy for Lincoln to have a sedan to please enthusiasts. Maybe a hybrid rear wheel drive luxury sedan

 

If they do one it will most likely be a PHEV like Aviator.

[rperez817]

If anything that speaks to me that people are purely buying a Ford car based product purely on price

 

That's the main reason prospective customers put Ford and Lincoln sedans on their shopping list. The huge discounts Ford offers on them. The cars generally aren't appealing otherwise.

 

Ford cars that don't have Mustang, GT, RS, ST, Sport, Hybrid, or Energi in their name won't attract high profit customers in large numbers. Lincoln cars have the same problem for the most part. SUVs and trucks bring in the big bucks for both brands.

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

That's the main reason prospective customers put Ford and Lincoln sedans on their shopping list. The huge discounts Ford offers on them.

I will stop you right there. There was hardly any discounts other than A-Plan on our Fusion when we got it, and that was just 4 months ago after the car cull was announced.

[akirby]

At one point Fusion ATPs were $4K more than Camry.

[ehaase]

Lincoln says they're NOT giving up on sedans and everyone is freaking out about Lincoln giving up on sedans. SMH.

Not believable. Also Lincoln LS had the right platform with DEW98 and lost a lot of money from what I've read. I have no confidence that a CD6 Lincoln sedan would sell any better or be more profitable than LS.

[Assimilator]

The CD6 cars (Mustang and Continental) were cancelled. If Lincoln is still making a CD6 car, I would be a little surprised. Nobody I know is aware of it being in development and I have no codes for Lincoln suggesting a new car is in development, just utilities (one of which has the wheelbase of Corsair for 2023 with Chinese-only production). I hope I'm surprised, but Lincoln needs to start acknowledging it exists and has plans for the future besides what was revealed before the Hacketthon.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Assimilator

[rperez817]

There was hardly any discounts other than A-Plan on our Fusion when we got it, and that was just 4 months ago after the car cull was announced.

 

I understand incentives vary from region to region, but to have hardly any discounts on Fusion is odd. Maybe Fusion customers in Southeast Michigan use A Plan more than customers in other regions?

 

For regular non A Plan customers, Ford has offered huge rebates and other discounts on Fusions in the DFW Metroplex for a long time. You can get $5,800+ off MSRP on Fusion SE at DFW area Ford dealers without even trying.

Example. https://www.autonation.com/cars/3FA6P0HD2JR267404

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

I understand incentives vary from region to region, but to have hardly any discounts on Fusion is odd. Maybe Fusion customers in Southeast Michigan use A Plan more than customers in other regions?

 

For regular non A Plan customers, Ford has offered huge rebates and other discounts on Fusions in the DFW Metroplex for a long time. You can get $5,800+ off MSRP on Fusion SE at DFW area Ford dealers without even trying.

Example. https://www.autonation.com/cars/3FA6P0HD2JR267404

I am entitled to the same rebates with A-plan as everyone else is if I am eligible for them.

[akirby]

The LS was a fine car for its time (I owned one of the first ones off the line). But it had a cheap interior, couldn’t use larger V8 engines and while I liked the styling it looked a lot like a Mitsubishi sedan. Also the ride was a little harsh due to a flaw in the suspension design. But it handled great.

 

A new CD6 sedan would suffer none of those fates. But it definitely isn’t a big priority - there are other things that should come first.

[Assimilator]

I would love to see a CD6 car just to see it...but I would certainly feel uneasy about Lincoln spending money on something that clearly won't thrive or grow. This is just the worst possible time to resurrect their sedan business after decades of being inconsistent and terrible. I think the market has already been galvanized, there isn't much room there for another entry...unless China makes it possible. I think Lincoln just has much more opportunity to thrive with Utilities and even Electrics. But a traditional Lincoln sedan...I don't see the hook.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Assimilator

[Fgts]

I would love to see a CD6 car just to see it...but I would certainly feel uneasy about Lincoln spending money on something that clearly won't thrive or grow. This is just the worst possible time to resurrect their sedan business after decades of being inconsistent and terrible. I think the market has already been galvanized, there isn't much room there for another entry...unless China makes it possible. I think Lincoln just has much more opportunity to thrive with Utilities and even Electrics. But a traditional Lincoln sedan...I don't see the hook.

Why would you be uneasy how Ford spends it's money on a car?. If the engineering have been done with the Explorer and Mustang what's more to spend other then bodywork?.

[MKZMark]

 

For crying out loud people! It's not about going bankrupt, it's about making MORE money. Geez! For the 1,938,332nd time, would you rather invest $1B and turn a profit of $50M or $100M? That's the difference here, the return on their original investment. Will they lose some customers? Yes, but they will gain some as well. It's a calculated risk they are taking to earn more off the same or fewer customers.

 

There is such a thing as a good tactical decision that is terrible strategy. Losing customers is not good strategy.

[fordmantpw]

 

There is such a thing as a good tactical decision that is terrible strategy. Losing customers is not good strategy.

 

Would you rather lose a car customer who will buy a $25k car where you will make $200 profit or would you rather lose an SUV customer who will buy a $40k vehicle and you make a profit of $4k? You can't win both of them, so you have to pick which one you lose.

[akirby]

 

Would you rather lose a car customer who will buy a $25k car where you will make $200 profit or would you rather lose an SUV customer who will buy a $40k vehicle and you make a profit of $4k? You can't win both of them, so you have to pick which one you lose.

 

That's the two concepts a lot of people don't get.

 

1 - Customers who are not loyal and who are only buying cheap vehicles that don't make you any profit are not worth having in the first place. Ford gets plenty of conquest buyers on their higher priced competitive products. Brand loyalty at the lower end of the market is rare nowadays. People buy mostly on price or styling because there are so many decent vehicles now.

 

2 - that Ford can design and build whatever they want and as many vehicles as they want all at the same time. There is always a fixed amount of capital available for vehicle development not to mention factory and people resources. You have to pick and choose what you work on each year and there will always be viable projects that just don't make the cut line. So choosing not to do something doesn't mean it doesn't have a valid business case - it may just not be a priority. I have had a $23M project with a valid business case go unfunded for 2 years now just because the business has other priorities ahead of it.

[rmc523]

I would love to see a CD6 car just to see it...but I would certainly feel uneasy about Lincoln spending money on something that clearly won't thrive or grow. This is just the worst possible time to resurrect their sedan business after decades of being inconsistent and terrible. I think the market has already been galvanized, there isn't much room there for another entry...unless China makes it possible. I think Lincoln just has much more opportunity to thrive with Utilities and even Electrics. But a traditional Lincoln sedan...I don't see the hook.

 

That's why I wonder if a giant "sedan" would do well - a RR-style sedan with the height of a low crossover.

[brucelinc]

The LS was a fine car for its time (I owned one of the first ones off the line). But it had a cheap interior, couldn’t use larger V8 engines and while I liked the styling it looked a lot like a Mitsubishi sedan. Also the ride was a little harsh due to a flaw in the suspension design. But it handled great.

 

A new CD6 sedan would suffer none of those fates. But it definitely isn’t a big priority - there are other things that should come first.

 

Additionally, the LS platform was only shared with one other vehicle...the low volume Jaguar S-type. That is far different than a platform utilized by several higher volume vehicles.

[rmc523]

 

Additionally, the LS platform was only shared with one other vehicle...the low volume Jaguar S-type. That is far different than a platform utilized by several higher volume vehicles.

 

Don't forget the short lived T-bird.

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

Additionally, the LS platform was only shared with one other vehicle...the low volume Jaguar S-type. That is far different than a platform utilized by several higher volume vehicles.

Didnt that also lead to the S-197 Mustang though?

[rperez817]

 

Customers who are not loyal and who are only buying cheap vehicles that don't make you any profit are not worth having in the first place. Ford gets plenty of conquest buyers on their higher priced competitive products. Brand loyalty at the lower end of the market is rare nowadays. People buy mostly on price or styling because there are so many decent vehicles now.

 

It's not just the lower end vehicles that are unprofitable for Ford. U.S. market Ford and Lincoln sedans overall are "chronically loss-making businesses" for Ford according to Morgan Stanley.

 

Ford will be better off without those products and customers.

[rmc523]

 

It's not just the lower end vehicles that are unprofitable for Ford. U.S. market Ford and Lincoln sedans overall are "chronically loss-making businesses" for Ford according to Morgan Stanley.

 

Ford will be better off without those products and customers.

 

No, that's not true from what we know - the problem is that because volume is skewed toward the lower priced, lower margin (unprofitable) trims, that makes the entire line less profitable - the lower end sales are dragging down the numbers into much less profitable territory. If the majority of models sold were top end Titaniums, Platinums and Sports, Ford would be making more money and wouldn't be dropping them.

Edited September 5, 2018 by rmc523

[akirby]

 

No, that's not true from what we know - the problem is that because volume is skewed toward the lower priced, lower margin (unprofitable) trims, that makes the entire line unprofitable - the lower end sales are dragging down the numbers into unprofitable territory. If the majority of models sold were top end Titaniums, Platinums and Sports, Ford would be making money and wouldn't be dropping them.

 

Maybe not unprofitable but certainly less profitable to the point it's not worth the investment.

[brucelinc]

 

Don't forget the short lived T-bird.

 

I have tried very hard to forget that strange looking animal.

[rmc523]

 

I have tried very hard to forget that strange looking animal.

 

I actually liked them...

 

 

Maybe not unprofitable but certainly less profitable to the point it's not worth the investment.

 

Yeah you're right.

[rperez817]

Maybe not unprofitable but certainly less profitable to the point it's not worth the investment.

 

 

Yeah you're right.

 

Good point. Opportunity cost to Ford of marketing sedans in the U.S. (Ford and Lincoln) over the next 5 years or more is too high. Maybe Ford can use a few sedans for its autonomous car and ride sharing programs. But that's about it.