fuzzymoomoo Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 I just hope they can get Jamie Curtis to promote the Focus Active and its benefits for everyone's digestive health. Thank you for not giving the satisfaction of using 3 names Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Nobody does that. It's unnecessary. Ford has already revealed more than it should have sooner than it should have due to poor product planning (talking Ranger and Bronco). It doesn't matter if you're the market leader or not. You shouldn't give your competitors advanced notice of anything you don't have to. The only reason I can see Ford releasing this information now is that they are trying to appease the stock prognosticators. Keep them at bay. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 So tell us exactly what Honda and Toyota and GM will be doing 24 months from now. In detail. I mean surely these other companies are revealing all their future plans too, right? We'll wait..... Nobody does that. It's unnecessary. Ford has already revealed more than it should have sooner than it should have due to poor product planning (talking Ranger and Bronco). It doesn't matter if you're the market leader or not. You shouldn't give your competitors advanced notice of anything you don't have to. Sure, there's been a lot of speculation for months about what Ford's future direction was going to be but I think that management has taken things to an extreme. Unfortunately, they keep making the same mistakes over and over. Fusion's history mirrors the Taurus... Introduce an all-new Fusion for the 2013MY which gave the Market a very sharp mid-size sedan that looked better than anything else on the road and then go 6 years with barely noticeable changes. A few exterior changes that the average buyer never noticed because the changes were so slight, introduce the Fusion Sport AWD which while well intended was not a sales success, do another minor refresh for the 2017MY with the most obvious change being the change to a rotary dial shift knob. In the meantime, the competition caught up and surpassed the Fusion with new features and are refreshing their models more often. The mid-size sedan market is shrinking but it's not going away. Ford just telegraphed it's production plans to their competitors. Toyota, Honda & Nissan have more loyal owners and now they can look forward to tapping the orphaned Fusion owners that will be looking for a replacement sedan in the future. That's roughly 200,000 Fusion sales at the current rate that the competition can look forward to. Once they capture those buyers Ford will have a very difficult time getting them back! Ford says that they're losing money on the Fusion even at a 200,000 unit production rate? Maybe someone in the Dearborn glass tower should think about producing better quality vehicles in the first place instead of having to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on recalls! How many hundreds of thousands, or millions, of vehicles over years do you produce with something as simple as a door latch that's defective? My last thought is about the thousands or tens of thousands of salaried workers that Ford's hired in recent years. Those positions have to come at a very high cost overall with contributions and value that have to be questioned when looking at Ford's situation today. I expect that the changes announced will take place at the end of the 2019 Model Year since they've already committed to 2019MY production for these models which isn't far away. In the meantime, Ford will keep up the promises of an all-new lineup for the 2020MY and the media will have lots of time to write and speculate about Ford's decisions while their Dealers try to convince prospective customers why they should buy a discontinued model. As always, history will be the judge! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Question for the people who actually work in the Ford N.A. assembly plants. What do you think of what Hackett said in his speech today regarding where some of this money saving will come from. Quote Hackett - Our fitness work has also allowed us to reduce the capital intensity of our business by $5 billion over our plan horizon, 2019 to 2022. We had expected to invest $34 billion, and that's now dropped to $29 billion. For example, we've identified opportunities to drive capital reduction through reuse of equipment and tools in our plants. The reuse of equipment and tools, is this really a good plan. Won`t this cause more down time fixing old equipment 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 (edited) me thinks there will still be some sort of midsize sedan...however it will most likely be a Hybrid or Plug in.....I dont car what drivetrain you put in any vehicle...Aero still has a say in ultimate mileage. Fusion will be back in some iteration...they put all their eggs in one ( read trucks and SUVs ) before...if they have forgotten or didn't learn from that lesson....irony is the "sedans " may be converted CUV/SUV chassis other than vice versa as it has been... Edited April 26, 2018 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Question for the people who actually work in the Ford N.A. assembly plants. What do you think of what Hackett said in his speech today regarding where some of this money saving will come from. Quote Hackett - Our fitness work has also allowed us to reduce the capital intensity of our business by $5 billion over our plan horizon, 2019 to 2022. We had expected to invest $34 billion, and that's now dropped to $29 billion. For example, we've identified opportunities to drive capital reduction through reuse of equipment and tools in our plants. The reuse of equipment and tools, is this really a good plan. Won`t this cause more down time fixing old equipment That doesn't necessarily mean keeping equipment longer. It could mean having more common components requiring fewer unique tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rp2388 Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 That's unfortunate that they are planning to obsolete the Fusion. I love my 2014 and was hoping to get a new version once it was paid off at the end of the year. I guess I'll just look to the competition if there aren't any offerings since S/CUVs aren't my thing. The new Mazda 6 is pretty sharp and I'm leaning to that as a replacement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Question for the people who actually work in the Ford N.A. assembly plants. What do you think of what Hackett said in his speech today regarding where some of this money saving will come from. Quote Hackett - Our fitness work has also allowed us to reduce the capital intensity of our business by $5 billion over our plan horizon, 2019 to 2022. We had expected to invest $34 billion, and that's now dropped to $29 billion. For example, we've identified opportunities to drive capital reduction through reuse of equipment and tools in our plants. The reuse of equipment and tools, is this really a good plan. Won`t this cause more down time fixing old equipment I dont like it one bit. A lot of the machinery is old, falling apart and maintained just well enough to keep it running. An old plant like Chicago or Flat Rock should have been completely rebuilt at least 10 years ago but instead they keep the old worn out machinery going and as a result, at least in the case of Flat Rock, have a breakdown at least once a day, if not once a shift. Its a long running joke between me and my buddy at FRAP (I know youre lurking )how long it will be into a shift when the first chunk of down time happens. I also really despise how once again there was not a single word about driving quality up from Hatchett. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 This a quote from Farley in the Q/A session - How we think about our lineup in North America especially is that we are developing incremental nameplates we don't have today and shifting the allocation of the capital portfolio to utility body styles, and there will be a variety, a growing variety, of those products. To give you a flavor, we'll have more authentic off-roaders, building our Built Ford Tough background like Bronco and other new nameplates we don't sell today. We will refresh our entire lineup of traditional crossovers and SUVs that everyone knows, like Explorer and Escape. And then we're going to be introducing and taking capital and redeploying it for also new silhouettes, products that give customers the utility benefits without the penalty of fuel economy. And they will be performance and active executed, so they'll be very emotional. So lots of raised vehicles that will include ST badges and ACTIVE badges aka Edge ST and Focus ACTIVE. I know when Farley was doing his EU gig he mentioned he was a fan of some of the not so normal variants Peugeot is bringing out which could be the new silhouettes he talked about yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 That's unfortunate that they are planning to obsolete the Fusion. I love my 2014 and was hoping to get a new version once it was paid off at the end of the year. I guess I'll just look to the competition if there aren't any offerings since S/CUVs aren't my thing. The new Mazda 6 is pretty sharp and I'm leaning to that as a replacement. They're going to be building them for another year or two at least. They're not killing them tomorrow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 26, 2018 Author Share Posted April 26, 2018 Want More Proof That America’s Midsize Sedan Segment Is Dying? Here Are Three Key Evidence Exhibits http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2018/03/want-more-proof-that-americas-midsize-sedan-segment-is-dying-here-are-three-key-evidence-exhibits/ #2: Midsize Sedans Are Too Cheap Why is the Honda Accord struggling? Honda doesn’t want to let it go for a song, but rival automakers allow their midsize sedans to leave dealers for pennies. The Toyota Camry, new last summer and the segment’s sales leader in 16 consecutive years, can be leased in California over three years for $219/month with only $1,999 down, an effective lease cost of $255/month. That’s cheaper than the lease on a Toyota Yaris iA. Toyota and its rivals wouldn’t be subsidizing leases so heavily if they didn’t have to. But if midsize sedans don’t become wildly inexpensive, buyers look to SUVs and pickup trucks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 26, 2018 Author Share Posted April 26, 2018 Guys, like it or not, Sedan sales are slipping-the mid size market has shrunk 20-25% in the past 2-3 years across the board and Compact car sales have been down 10% also-with only Tall Compact cars bucking the trend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 They're going to be building them for another year or two at least. They're not killing them tomorrow. Mike Levine on Twitter said the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rp2388 Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 They're going to be building them for another year or two at least. They're not killing them tomorrow. While that's true, if I'm going into the market to buy a replacement,I'm not looking into getting what's essentially a simple modification of the same design (it also makes convincing the wife to give her blessing a lot harder). While it may be true that the sedan market is decreasing, it doesn't mean it's going away and those that don't want a xUV platform aren't going to suddenly decide to get one if there are other manufacturers available to give them what they want. At this rate, eventually the xUV market is going to be in the same cutthroat situation that the mid-size segment was a couple of years ago. If evolution theory applies to vehicle manufacturers as well, you don't survive long term by focusing on one specialty but you need to have a portfolio of different product types to offer or you won't survive. Hopefully this isn't the case, but we'll see. As far as I'm concerned, I don't like the look of current xUVs and unless they also are able to meet or improve the footprint and performance of a car, I have no need to get one as a daily driver. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 (edited) I agree with post saying "now you know how Panther fans feel". Oh well, if they can't make profit, then can't sell the products forever. At same time, new car buyers aren't car enthusiasts, can't just wait for favorite cars to depreciate to used ones, without consequences. Toyota and Honda will cut production of Cam-Cord, and will not be big selling cars again. So, have to accept what's going on and find more important things to worry about. Edited April 26, 2018 by 630land 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 (edited) Honda and Toyota redid their mid size cars and sales didn't set world on fire. So an all new Fusion this year would have bombed, and wasted money, too. Older generation of buyers complained about decline of full size "traditional" BOF/RWD cars and vinyl tops. Now it's Boomers turn to mourn their favorite cars, unibody mid sizers. Edited April 26, 2018 by 630land 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 He didnt want any other brands either, different times back then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 (edited) Ford's announcement may reinforce the undesirability of sedans and drive profits down further for everybody else. This is probably the final tipping point that drives the nail. Ford's timing seems to be right on target, all of these aging products are due for a replacement at the moment the market is no longer sustainable. Other carmakers are investing in these products at precisely the worst time. I don't think things could have lined up more perfectly to make this transition. And the reason Accord and Camry can still sell them is because they have a huge loyal customer base, Focus and Fusion customers are not nearly as loyal. Edited April 26, 2018 by Assimilator 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 You do realize the Focus active is literally the same Focus hatch as the rest of the Focus variants, with just some plastic cladding around the wheel wells, right? So not sure what the complaint is about regarding driving dynamics and whatnot. Focus Active's suspension is raised about 30 mm compared to regular Focus hatch. That will worsen driving dynamics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Ford confirmed end of production for some cars (some of these dates were already known to this forum) Focus EOP May 2018 Taurus EOP March 2019 Fiesta EOP May 2019 Fusion production will continue thru at least 2020 The Fiesta date is particularly of interest... It coincides with model year 2020 Escape production schedule, assuming Ford will add a 2nd plant to build Escape (and baby Bronco). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Focus Active's suspension is raised about 30 mm compared to regular Focus hatch. That will worsen driving dynamics. Only if you drive like a maniac. Most folks will never notice the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Escape is not leaving Louisville. Whatever becomes the Escape overflow plant (I thought it was Hermosillo based on what some other insiders said, but maybe its Cuactitlan) will probably be paired with Baby Bronco and NG EcoSport (or its replacement). The big unknown is whether or not MKC moves there too or stays in Louisville. I tend to believe it will stay where it is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Focus to end May 2018, Taurus in March 2019 and fiesta May 2019. No date given for fusion. This all according Michael Martinez from automotive news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Focus to end May 2018, Taurus in March 2019 and fiesta May 2019. No date given for fusion. This all according Michael Martinez from automotive news. The last C-Max will roll off the line late tonight or early into day shift tomorrow The last Focus is scheduled to roll off next Thursday (5/3/2018) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 So Ford is walking away from some 500K units from sedans, what other "vehicles" will they introduce to make up for it? Bronco/Ranger wouldn't even make half of that missing loss... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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