Ford giving up on Fiesta, Focus and Fusion

[kyle]

Guys.

 

This is basically why I don't come around here any more.

 

I caught this show the first time around:

 

https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/Ford2001.shtml

 

I don't need to see it again, I've already seen the ending.

 

Not trying to be anti-social though. I'm on twitter at https://twitter.com/RichAJensenand Instagram at: Rich.Jensen

Was wondering no where the hell you been! Hope all is well and following you on Twitter.

[Moosetang]

Pretty stunning to see Fusion go, whatever their market research says. But far more concerning to me is that the details were all about the cuts, while future products and investments were yadda-yadda'ed. This is becoming a theme of Hack-job's tenure: hearing far more about what's NOT happening than what is.

 

The thint is, I don't think it will please Wall Street the way they hope. While "more profit" is something they want to hear, so is confidence. And if they wanted to project confidence, they needed to roll out something impressive that they intend to DO.

[akirby]

They’re certainly not giving up on Focus in ROTW so it’s available if they need to bring it back.

 

And it’s not about whether people are still buying Fusions and Fiestas - the question is whether Ford is making any money selling them. Given the huge competition in the mid sized market (even Honda is discounting Accords now) it would not surprise me if more players pulled out. Maybe Honda and Toyota have enough volume to keep them profitable.

 

Hybrid and Plug in Hybrid utilities and trucks will make any gas price hikes moot.

 

What’s worse than selling 100K vehicles? Selling 200K if you’re losing money on them.

 

As long as they get the platforms right they should be able to throw a car top hat on C2 or CD6 pretty quickly if they’re wrong.

 

Look at it this way - if they’re going to let the cars rot on the vine anyway like Focus and Fusion then maybe it is better to just get rid of them and build something else.

[silvrsvt]

The thint is, I don't think it will please Wall Street the way they hope. While "more profit" is something they want to hear, so is confidence. And if they wanted to project confidence, they needed to roll out something impressive that they intend to DO.

 

That is supposedly coming in September-which would make sense-they will most likely show off/put on display all the upcoming products that will launch between now and the end of 2019.

 

I don't think they'll show the actual Bronco off though-they'll wait till next year, but I'm sure they'll have name for the small C-CUV and other things with timelines.

[akirby]

While "more profit" is something they want to hear, so is confidence. And if they wanted to project confidence, they needed to roll out something impressive that they intend to DO.

They’ve already said a lot and they said there would be a lot of product info in September. Patience.

[silvrsvt]

They’re certainly not giving up on Focus in ROTW so it’s available if they need to bring it back.

 

And it’s not about whether people are still buying Fusions and Fiestas - the question is whether Ford is making any money selling them. Given the huge competition in the mid sized market (even Honda is discounting Accords now) it would not surprise me if more players pulled out. Maybe Honda and Toyota have enough volume to keep them profitable.

 

Hybrid and Plug in Hybrid utilities and trucks will make any gas price hikes moot.

 

What’s worse than selling 100K vehicles? Selling 200K if you’re losing money on them.

 

As long as they get the platforms right they should be able to throw a car top hat on C2 or CD6 pretty quickly if they’re wrong.

 

Look at it this way - if they’re going to let the cars rot on the vine anyway like Focus and Fusion then maybe it is better to just get rid of them and build something else.

 

 

I also look at this as to playing to Ford's strengths- they are more or less the best truck company on the planet and they always done competitive to class leading SUV/CUVs-at least for the past 25 years or so.

[fuzzymoomoo]

As long as they get the platforms right they should be able to throw a car top hat on C2 or CD6 pretty quickly if theyre wrong.

They wont. It will take to long to clear capacity to be able to build it. Look at what happened with Ranger.

[akirby]

They wont. It will take to long to clear capacity to be able to build it. Look at what happened with Ranger.

But that’s the beauty of using 2 new platforms and building them in multiple plants. Let’s say Focus Active stops selling - they can just make Focus sedans on the same line. You’re not adding capacity - you’re shifting it from one model to the other. Which was always the plan - to be able to move away from cars to utilities as consumer preferences changed. Except this also allows them to go the other way.

 

Look - I’m not convinced this is the right move either. Seems like they could do a lot of what they want to do and still keep Focus and Fusion sedans.

 

If the hybrid and PHEV utilities are done correctly and the market doesn’t make a huge left turn this may well work out to be a genius move. IF.

[Assimilator]

I will absolutely not give FCA credit. They backed out of the segment due to their own inability to be competitive. They got lucky.

 

 

FWIW, Jeep Compass and Renegade outsell the Focus, Fiesta, and EcoSport combined with room to spare. Once Ford gets the right utilities in those segments (EcoSport ain't right), then Ford's small car program should be in much better shape than it is right now.

 

Fusion is another problem, I'm not quite sure where those customers go besides Escape and MAYBE the Bronco Mini which appears to be more of a lifestyle entry-level vehicle than an 'adult' midsizer. If they want them to go to Escape, they obviously need to make far more of them then they do today.

 

Ford is also dropping Flex and MKT so factory space is really opening up now, not sure what they are going to do with all of it but they will probably close one or both of the Mexico plants unless EcoSport/Maverick are moved into one of them which seems likely.

 

Lincoln is also apparently loosing money so we may see those sedans cut which seems obvious at this point.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Assimilator

[fuzzymoomoo]

But thats the beauty of using 2 new platforms and building them in multiple plants. Lets say Focus Active stops selling - they can just make Focus sedans on the same line. Youre not adding capacity - youre shifting it from one model to the other. Which was always the plan - to be able to move away from cars to utilities as consumer preferences changed. Except this also allows them to go the other way.

Now that you mention it, it seems like this was the plan for Hermosillo before they pulled China out of their asses.

 

 

If the hybrid and PHEV utilities are done correctly and the market doesnt make a huge left turn this may well work out to be a genius move. IF.

I sure hope youre right and this isnt 2001-2007 all over again.

[Assimilator]

If Focus Active is still coming from China then they at least have a supply chain to Focus if they suddenly need them in the US market, although it's still a not going to be a quick or guaranteed process. You also don't want to just sit on a poor selling money looser for the "Just in case" scanario if you can find sustainable alternatives.

 

With so many effecient and inexpensive crossovers available (along with a bevy of HEV, PHEVs, and BEVs coming), people aren't going back anyway and the scenario is completely different today than it was in the 2000's. I think this has been very well considered by Ford but we really haven't seen all of their new products yet which will improve their standing before or shortly after these products are gone. Right now there is no company more poorly positioned to get rid of their FE cars than Ford since they don't have any good alternatives which makes this look especially dangerous, but again 2 years is a long time for new products to start popping up to start the transition. Just hope there isn't an energy crisis anytime in the next 24 months.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Assimilator

[Fgts]

 

Ford would never do that. Boy give FCA tons of credit for getting out in front of this.

OTOH FCA will still offer the Charger, 300 and new rwd/midsize Dodge sedan.

[jniffen]

Two thing for me.

1. Compared to Sedans the Suv are too expensive Fusion/Taurus vs Edge/Explorer

2. In POV, Ford will become another Jeep.

 

It may work it may not. I think Hatchet is not the right guy for the job.

Oh and finally, I find it funny America is going back to the similar style to the cars of the '40'S.

[jcartwright99]

What I am really having a hard time grasping at is this whole, we aren't making money on the Feista, Focus, Fusion, and Lincoln (not sure about Taurus). Wasn't Mullaly a huge advocate of selling products to make money on? How the F did they go back to not making money on these cars? I understand nothing is static and change is always occurring but the 1 Ford philosophy was supposed to fix that. I don't get how in 4 years this company lost it's way completely. Was Fields that bad or are we on the cusp of of something larger than we can't comprehend at the moment ( recession or just massive change in the industry....or both)?

 

Also, how is the MKZ and Continental not making any money. The MKT I understand, as they are so fugly you can't give them away. I will say that both the sedans could have been better (especially MKZ). Continental was a good first try but they didn't try for a home run only a triple and got a double (part product/part segment decline).

 

Now after thinking about this a while but I get the feeling that we are going to get some wild vehicles in the near future. Sure we are going to keep getting the standard trucks and CUV/SUV that have been selling like hot cakes. I also get the feeling that they are going to go BMW and give us tweener vehicles like the X4 and X6. They have already let the cat out of the bag about performance suvs (Edge and Explorer).

 

Also, I keep reading about everyone saying history is repeating itself and using gas price spikes as a reason why. I don't even think that is in play now for a couple of reasons. There isn't much different mpg between sedans and crossovers at this point. If gas did spike to say 6 (4 bucks won't do it) bucks a gallon, most future products will have phev or electric options.

 

It's a sad day because I am a fan of sedans. I don't giving up space for a better ride and handling. This could be a huge turning point for Ford....we won't know if it's good or bad though for quite some time though.

[Roland]

Guys.

 

This is basically why I don't come around here any more.

 

I caught this show the first time around:

 

https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/Ford2001.shtml

 

I don't need to see it again, I've already seen the ending.

 

Not trying to be anti-social though. I'm on twitter at https://twitter.com/RichAJensenand Instagram at: Rich.Jensen

 

 

That was my thought. It's like watching one of those time travel movies where you keep going back to try to fix things but you find yourself powerless to keep people from making the same stupid mistakes over and over.

 

Bottom line, if someone else can make cars profitably and Ford can't then they're toast eventually anyway. You can't keep running from segments because you can't make a buck there.

 

And it doesn't take fuel prices to bring this little truck party to a crashing conclusion. Fashion can turn on a dime and this year's ultra-popular CUV could become next year's soccer-mom minivan.

 

Pretty sad because my wife was really thrilled to "come home" to Ford for her new Focus ST. No way she'll settle for the mom-van version when it comes time to re-up. Ironically she fled there from Mazda because their car lineup has strayed to far from the "zoom zoom" nature that attracted us away from Ford in the first place.

 

As for me, maybe I'll swap out my Ecoboost Mustang for the "Last of the V8s" memorial edition Mustang just before they toss that in the heap as well.

[ANTAUS]

Suddenly the MKZ and Continentals value drop overnight...and Audi Jaguar Volvo BMW Lexus MB will be gaining quite a bit more.

 

Now, For Ford maybe 500K of "Sedans" won't really hurt them specially if they aren't making a profit on them (hard to believe when I see how overpriced a loaded Conti and Mkz is for the price). I can't see Honda going down this route since majority of their business IS on cars. I think they have over 700K in sedans. For them to pull the plug would be galactical... I can see some defecting towards them though..

[jcartwright99]

OTOH FCA will still offer the Charger, 300 and new rwd/midsize Dodge sedan.

 

Other than the European import brands like Fiat and Alpha Romeo, cars they produce are essentially based on the same car that came out 16 years ago. Charger, Challenger, and 300 are the same car so let's not pretend like the are much different. 2 door performance, 4 door performance, mild 4 door luxury on the same platform and foot print. Ford will still have the Mustang and pretty much guaranteed Lincoln version. The Focus active is basically a slightly higher station wagon ala Suburu.

 

In my mind, FCA tried with Dart and failed. After that, they gave up in the US minus what they already had (mentioned above) that was unique. So let's not pat FCA on the back for being forward thinking.

[jcartwright99]

Suddenly the MKZ and Continentals value drop overnight...and Audi Jaguar Volvo BMW Lexus MB will be gaining quite a bit more.

 

Now, For Ford maybe 500K of "Sedans" won't really hurt them specially if they aren't making a profit on them (hard to believe when I see how overpriced a loaded Conti and Mkz is for the price). I can't see Honda going down this route since majority of their business IS on cars. I think they have over 700K in sedans. For them to pull the plug would be galactical... I can see some defecting towards them though..

 

Nobody can predict the future but let's just say the trend continues and car/sedan sales keep shrinking. What happens next is going to be a race to the bottom. The last 1 or 2 manufactures standing will win those sales but at what cost.

 

I have no idea if this the right or wrong way to do it. However, they are making a decisive move one that if it works could be very profitable. We shall see.

[itguy09]

 

Bottom line, if someone else can make cars profitably and Ford can't then they're toast eventually anyway. You can't keep running from segments because you can't make a buck there.

 

Making a profit and making a profit to continue development are 2 separate things. They may make money on each unit but not enough to fund development of a successor. By focusing on what's hot you can charge more, spread those costs out over a larger user base, and make more $$.

[MKX1960]

Man, I love my ST.

Guess have to go to GM and FCA for a next car purchase.

FCA already dropped 2 models and thinking about getting rid of Charger and 300. GM is thinking about getting rid of LaCrosse and Impala. They're laying people off because Cruze sales are slow. Most recently, look at Cadillac. I think Ford has the right idea but perhaps the wrong cars.They probably should hang onto either the Fusion or Taurus.

[kyle]

I will absolutely not give FCA credit. They backed out of the segment due to their own inability to be competitive. They got lucky.

But thats what Ford is doing now. Whats the difference?

[jcartwright99]

But thats what Ford is doing now. Whats the difference?

 

No...they built a brand new small car entry and it sucked from the get go. They canceled it after 3 years. Ford can at least design and engineer them right but they ALWAYS expire before being cancelled..

[Fgts]

 

Other than the European import brands like Fiat and Alpha Romeo, cars they produce are essentially based on the same car that came out 16 years ago. Charger, Challenger, and 300 are the same car so let's not pretend like the are much different. 2 door performance, 4 door performance, mild 4 door luxury on the same platform and foot print. Ford will still have the Mustang and pretty much guaranteed Lincoln version. The Focus active is basically a slightly higher station wagon ala Suburu.

 

In my mind, FCA tried with Dart and failed. After that, they gave up in the US minus what they already had (mentioned above) that was unique. So let's not pat FCA on the back for being forward thinking.

The next gen 300, Charger, Challenger, etc. is on the Alpha Romeo's platform with base turbo-4 engines. Not everyone who wants inexpensive American car performance wants a cramped 2-door (Mustang..and Camaro).

[mackinaw]

Ford is also dropping Flex and MKT so factory space is really opening up now, not sure what they are going to do with all of it but they will probably close one or both of the Mexico plants unless EcoSport/Maverick are moved into one of them which seems likely.

 

From Automotive News:

 

"Cars being cut in North America are the Fiesta, Fusion and Taurus. They will be discontinued over the next few years as their lifecycle ends. Joe Hinrichs, Ford’s head of global operations, said other vehicles will replace the cars at factories in Mexico and Chicago where they are now built.

 

Ford’s head of global markets, Jim Farley, said the company is exploring new vehicles that give people the space and versatility of a utility vehicle without a fuel economy “penalty. “We will have a very diverse passenger car business,” Farley said. “It just won’t be traditional silhouetted sedans that tend to be commoditized.”

[jpvbs]

I'm another one that is disappointed by this. I'm not a CUV guy. I can accept the financial calculus of the decision, but I don't like it. I feel it lessens the overall brand.

 

I thought a larger Focus might have been a good compromise to cover both compact and midsize.

 

Oh well.

Edited April 26, 2018 by jpvbs