mackinaw Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 I just dont see how thats a financially prudent decision, even for a company with very deep pockets like Ford. Especially when all theyve talked about for the better part of a year now is cutting costs. The devil is in the details as they say, and until (if) the deal is finalized, we can only speculate on what it would cost. We'll found out in May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Light rail? How about a fleet of autonomous Transit Connects? . I like it, maybe a tunnel system that is "autonomous vehicle only" with the aforementioned Transit Connect or other Ford autonomous offering to provide service to and from each location.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 . I like it, maybe a tunnel system that is "autonomous vehicle only" with the aforementioned Transit Connect or other Ford autonomous offering to provide service to and from each location.... tunnels under Detroit arent a good idea because of the existing salt mines 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 There is also existing rail line ROW that would very easy connect Dearborn Transit center right by PDC / new Wagner place development to this location. With the RTA back on the ballot this fall could be that ford would subsidize or use the new transit system to and from Dearborn, this would also be the rail line that would go directly to the airport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) There is also existing rail line ROW that would very easy connect Dearborn Transit center right by PDC / new Wagner place development to this location. With the RTA back on the ballot this fall could be that ford would subsidize or use the new transit system to and from Dearborn, this would also be the rail line that would go directly to the airport. if its the same as it was before it still wont pass. Mass transit should benefit the whole area, not just the city of Detroit and Oakland county. Edited March 20, 2018 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) if its the same as it was before it still wont pass. Mass transit should benefit the whole area, not just the city of Detroit and Oakland county. The plan looks identical, it will probably pass this time, Voter turn out won't be as high in Macomb and Oakland County. I think it is a total crap of a plan, and should focus more on existing rail lines. The Majority of cost is just repaving roads to include BRT lanes. Its a back door way to repave a bunch of streets. I also don't like it is a property tax, it should be a sales tax in the 4 county area to fund it so everyone pays something into it; not just property owners. Though being the train station is going to be a Brownfield Ford will get that RTA tax dollars refunded to pay back the brownfield. Edited March 21, 2018 by jasonj80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 I live in southern Wayne County I dont want my property taxes to pay for anything that will not benefit me or my community in any way, and based on how the county voted 2 years ago, Im clearly not the only one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I live in southern Wayne County I dont want my property taxes to pay for anything that will not benefit me or my community in any way, and based on how the county voted 2 years ago, Im clearly not the only one Nope, there is still nothing south of Eureka in the plan. Not like you can get there anyways with 75 South being closed...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 Tell me about it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 It's getting harder and harder for companies to attract top talent. Part of attracting the folks you need is having a desirable area to live, especially in a place like Michigan (it doesn't have the weather of FL and CA). I'm sure this is part of that strategy. Why would young people want work/live in that area ? There is NOTHING in that area except for one of the better BBQ restaurants in Detroit (Slows) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 IMHO, it would be a TERRIBLE investment, especially at this time ! #1, and only people who live in Metro Detroit MIGHT know this THERE IS ZERO PARKING SPACE ASSOCIATED WITH THAT BUILDING ! There is another abandoned building next door that could be razed and turned into a parking garage, or maybe they could buy some of the abandoned railroad track behind the building and build a garage there, but WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO GET THE MONEY !! They have committed million to rebuild the R&E Center (which seems to be moving very slow) as well as remodeling WHQ. Investors are already getting pissed off that Ford seems to have gotten "behind the 8 ball" on EV and autonomous vehicles and playing "catch up" cost $$$. Dumb, dumb, dumb idea ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 IMHO, it would be a TERRIBLE investment, especially at this time ! #1, and only people who live in Metro Detroit MIGHT know this THERE IS ZERO PARKING SPACE ASSOCIATED WITH THAT BUILDING ! There is another abandoned building next door that could be razed and turned into a parking garage, or maybe they could buy some of the abandoned railroad track behind the building and build a garage there, but WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO GET THE MONEY !! They have committed million to rebuild the R&E Center (which seems to be moving very slow) as well as remodeling WHQ. Investors are already getting pissed off that Ford seems to have gotten "behind the 8 ball" on EV and autonomous vehicles and playing "catch up" cost $$$. Dumb, dumb, dumb idea ! Capture.JPG Funny you mention parking that was one of the main reasons it never did well as a main train station, no where to park. But in terms of investment. It actually won't cost Ford anything to rehab. Between the Brownfield tax, historical tax credits. Ford will need to fund it up front but you can make 7-9% interest on the payments back to yourself. For someone like Ford Land it makes for a good way for a steady stream of investment capital coming back over the next 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) Why would young people want work/live in that area ? There is NOTHING in that area except for one of the better BBQ restaurants in Detroit (Slows) There are a ton of other restaurant and places to hang out down there.... Green Dot Sugar House Two James Takoi Ottia Via Mercury Bar Gold cash Gold Gaelic American Bob Cat Bonnies Motor City Wine Mudgies Batch Brewing Brew Detroit and a bunch more places, and Mexicantown is just on the other side of the train station. Corktown is way more than just Slows. Edited March 21, 2018 by jasonj80 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosetang Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 IMHO, it would be a TERRIBLE investment, especially at this time ! #1, and only people who live in Metro Detroit MIGHT know this THERE IS ZERO PARKING SPACE ASSOCIATED WITH THAT BUILDING ! There is another abandoned building next door that could be razed and turned into a parking garage, or maybe they could buy some of the abandoned railroad track behind the building and build a garage there, but WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO GET THE MONEY !! They have committed million to rebuild the R&E Center (which seems to be moving very slow) as well as remodeling WHQ. Investors are already getting pissed off that Ford seems to have gotten "behind the 8 ball" on EV and autonomous vehicles and playing "catch up" cost $$$. Dumb, dumb, dumb idea ! Capture.JPG Going to disagree with you pretty strongly here. If they're really working to assemble property around the Depot as is being reported then they have the ability to construct the campus they want/require, parking included. Having a campus with transit access in an an urban neighborhood on an upward trajectory is massively appealing to the sort of young tech workers they want, see the Team Edison location or any Amazon building, but it always requires substantial investment to build a big campus in that sort of location. A new-build of that size in a healthier city would easily be a half-$Billion project, and would require substantial time/effort negotiating with the city and landowners to get everything assembled, re-zoned, and approved. Here the city would probably bend over backwards to do something with the Depot, the only real big obstacle to get it green-lit is likely to be Matty Moroun's intent to squeeze every last $.01 he can out of the purchase price. The historic nature of this building does certainly pose problems/challenges that a new-build wouldn't, both in material and legal terms, but if the company believes they need a new urban campus I think this is an intelligent option. Add on the attractive PR and positive impact on their relationship with the Detroit political establishment, and it looks pretty decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 IMHO, it would be a TERRIBLE investment, especially at this time ! #1, and only people who live in Metro Detroit MIGHT know this THERE IS ZERO PARKING SPACE ASSOCIATED WITH THAT BUILDING ! There is another abandoned building next door that could be razed and turned into a parking garage, or maybe they could buy some of the abandoned railroad track behind the building and build a garage there, but WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO GET THE MONEY !! They have committed million to rebuild the R&E Center (which seems to be moving very slow) as well as remodeling WHQ. Investors are already getting pissed off that Ford seems to have gotten "behind the 8 ball" on EV and autonomous vehicles and playing "catch up" cost $$$. Dumb, dumb, dumb idea ! I’m sure people said the same thing when HFII built the RenCen in 1977. Ten years after the riots, downtown Detroit was in decline. Fast decline. Why build anything there? Fast forward to 2018 and downtown Detroit is on the way up, some would say thriving. I’m amazed on how many 20-40 year kid’s (to me) you see downtown now. What a change from before. If you build it, they will come. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 IMHO, it would be a TERRIBLE investment, especially at this time ! #1, and only people who live in Metro Detroit MIGHT know this THERE IS ZERO PARKING SPACE ASSOCIATED WITH THAT BUILDING ! There is another abandoned building next door that could be razed and turned into a parking garage, or maybe they could buy some of the abandoned railroad track behind the building and build a garage there, but WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO GET THE MONEY !! They have committed million to rebuild the R&E Center (which seems to be moving very slow) as well as remodeling WHQ. Investors are already getting pissed off that Ford seems to have gotten "behind the 8 ball" on EV and autonomous vehicles and playing "catch up" cost $$$. Dumb, dumb, dumb idea ! . Wiz, I would be willing to bet that there will be all kinds of government funds available to assist rehabbing that building.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 Why would young people want work/live in that area ? There is NOTHING in that area except for one of the better BBQ restaurants in Detroit (Slows) Hipsters are a strange bunch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 . Wiz, I would be willing to bet that there will be all kinds of government funds available to assist rehabbing that building.. One article said the current owner spent $8M fixing the freight elevator and installing some windows and boarding up others. $8M for some lipstick on a pig ! No one want to talk about the 9,000 lb gorilla. PARKING ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 One article said the current owner spent $8M fixing the freight elevator and installing some windows and boarding up others. $8M for some lipstick on a pig ! No one want to talk about the 9,000 lb gorilla. PARKING ! Build a parking structure(s). They are building lots of them around the new campus in Dearborn. Plus when the offices are closed they can charge the public to park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 No one want to talk about the 9,000 lb gorilla. PARKING ! Maybe you park in the same places people parked when the train station was in operation? Take a look at Google Maps. Plenty of vacant lots all around the train station. Great places for future parking lots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 One article said the current owner spent $8M fixing the freight elevator and installing some windows and boarding up others. $8M for some lipstick on a pig ! No one want to talk about the 9,000 lb gorilla. PARKING ! You left out remediation, which is most likely the biggest expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Maybe you park in the same places people parked when the train station was in operation? Take a look at Google Maps. Plenty of vacant lots all around the train station. Great places for future parking lots. Were no parking lots around when it was MCS, that is actually one of the reasons the station was relocated. Downtown and Corktown are very different now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Maybe you park in the same places people parked when the train station was in operation? Take a look at Google Maps. Plenty of vacant lots all around the train station. Great places for future parking lots. . ...and parking garage structures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyNameIsPat Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Moroun found a sucker to buy his train station. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 There are pluses and minuses to buying and renovating versus buy empty land and building new but in this case, the pluses outweigh the minuses by a large enough margin to justify Ford in making the purchase... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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