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Ford pulling the plug on the Continental, Taurus and possibly the Fusion


deflep1

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Everyone knew the Taurus was ending, but it was confirmed the 2019 Continental will be the last model. North American Fusion/MKZ production ends in 2020, with possibly no exports to America available. The Continental is the only thing keeping us on 2 shifts at Flat Rock. We had 6 straight months of not even getting 40 hours until recently when we launched the 2019 Continental. No new product is scheduled for us for 2 years, so late this year losing a shift is a high probability. You can't keep 2 shifts running with only 1 car left that sells globally under 130,000 units a year. 2016 Global Mustang sales hit 150,000, but dropped last year. Global Continental sales last year were under 20,000. Our total production for 2018 will be lucky to hit 125,000 units. Ford will have to decide quickly if they want to replace the Taurus, Fusion and Continental with one car based on the Conti platform, which is basically a stretched Fusion platform. They've hinted at it, but if they think everyone just wants a truck or a crossover, the Mustang will end up being the last car standing. The Fiesta will be killed, the Focus will be imported from China and sales will keep nosediving until they stop selling it here, which will end the Ford car lineup. I'm glad our truck and SUV/crossover plants will all be running full tilt soon, but there is a real possibility of consolidating plants again in our near future. Chicago and Flat Rock don't have enough products to fill them both. Autonomous sales for us in 2021 are slated at only 4,000 units and will provide very few jobs, the same as our new data mobility center. Self driving cars are not going to take off like Ford management thinks. It might take another decade for self driving cars to become a hit and may take that long to get our roads in good enough shape to keep those autonomous cars from crashing into all the potholes! Car prices have risen so sharply that people under 30 can't possibly afford $500 - $600 a month payments, that's why a third of all new sales are leases, but even if they lease, their monthly insurance payments can be more than their lease payment! $2,000 - $4,000 a year for full coverage insurance in Michigan is the norm. We are starting to quickly lose customers who can actually afford a new car. Bad credit, student loan debt and credit card debt are crippling young (and lots of older) peoples' ability to buy a new car. New car loans can be financed for 7 years now...84 months of payments! WOW, and sub-prime car loans that are defaulting by the hundreds of thousands are going to cause the economy bubble to burst soon just like the sub-prime housing loans did back in 2007. Yes the stock market is high, unemployment numbers are low (part time jobs and people who gave up looking keep those numbers artificially low), but we all know most people are in debt up to their eyeballs and another crash is coming. The 2019 Contract talks should be very interesting! (Did I mention Flat Rock STILL DOESN'T have a local contract?) Good luck to us all.

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CAP is starting the 2019 Taurus launch in 3 weeks. The 2019 model year will be a shortened production year for both the Taurus and the Explorer.

 

There is so much on the Ford plate for 2020 I personally wonder how it will all be pulled together without every facility working on some kind of product. Hang in there Flat Rock they will need some facility for the SUV coming out as a small unit.

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Chicago has nothing to worry about

 

And 2019 is not the last year of the Continental. Stop buying into rumors.

Try a Google search...Ford internal paperwork was released 4 months ago showing no U.S. production of the Continental in 2020, fueling rumors production would be shipped to China. This week many articles have been published stating Ford is killing the Taurus and Continental, the 2019 models are the last. Last December reports stated the Fusion and MKZ won't be built in North America after 2019. Motor Trend Dec 14, 2017 article. FordAuthority.com Mar 14 2018 article states the current gen Continental (2019 model) will be the last. Our unit trainers have been telling us this for months. The car has flopped in the U.S., with only 12,000 sold here in the states in 2017 and about 6,000 units being shipped to China. As for the Taurus, there is a 2020 Chinese next generation model, but Ford announced all over the news a year ago there is no 2020 American model, the 2019 is the last model. Every upper management and pilot plant person I've talked to who train our unit trainers / new model people have said Ford is moving away from cars and going for high profit trucks, SUV's, crossovers and new electrics and autonomous vehicles. Ford is losing a ton of money on the Continental with low sales, recalls, production and warranty issues. They gambled big on Lincoln and so far only the new navigator is paying off. A fully loaded Continental can cost you 80k. Some Chinese buyers are willing to fork over that much, but only 12,000 people bought a Conti last year in the U.S., and most of those were cheaper 50k-60k models. Ford is on a VERY strict budget at its car plants and is getting cheaper by the day. They won't hire our part timers who have 2 years in even though over 350 workers have retired in the last 6 months. We have thousands of new cars in our lots waiting for replacement parts and hundreds of new cars every day don't pass inspection. Our plant is losing money, the Continental is losing money and sales are dropping, how is that buying into rumors? I've been through losing a shift twice here and it almost happened again in January, but there is no place to put 1,400 of our workers because MAP is laying off a shift, so we are trying to ride it out. If you have the capacity to make 280,000 cars a year on 2 shifts and you're only making 140,000 and dropping, it's not practical to work 2 shifts 30 hours a week and pay them for 40 for months (or years) on end.

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CAP is starting the 2019 Taurus launch in 3 weeks. The 2019 model year will be a shortened production year for both the Taurus and the Explorer.

 

There is so much on the Ford plate for 2020 I personally wonder how it will all be pulled together without every facility working on some kind of product. Hang in there Flat Rock they will need some facility for the SUV coming out as a small unit.

We lost the small all electric Lincoln SUV production to Mexico. Our management is horrible, they lie to the Glass House about everything. Our union can't get the company to follow our contract. It is total chaos here and I've seen over two decades of chaos, 2 loses of a shift, the loss of a partner (Mazda) and watched hundreds of workers just retire after they finally got their 30 years in and couldn't wait for a buyout or even for the 2019 contract signing bonus. Ford told us there will be no buyouts and we will make life hell for you at the plant to make you quit and keep using part timers to boost profit margin. THEY WERE NOT LYING! Thanks for your concern Decker. Plant morale is at an all time low, they keep eliminating work stations and adding work to everyone's job. They constantly speed up the line by 2 or 3 cars an hour and the union has proof and does nothing. The next two years will suck, we will get another unnamed vehicle in 2020 to replace the Lincoln SUV they took, then an autonomous vehicle in 2021 that no one will buy. (Ford projects 4,000 units annually...big whoop!) The small SUV would have built on a separate sub line that the autonomous vehicles will be built on. Our mainline carriers are set up for mid size cars (Mazda 6, Fusion, Mustang, Continental) We can't build trucks or large SUV's. We are essentially a Mustang plant that can build specialty low volume cars or electric/autonomous cars on a separate yet to be built line. We don't have a solid moneymaker that most people want like the Explorer. We have toys that most people don't need or can't afford anyway. What could go wrong?

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Whats to stop that small suv from being imported from China or Mexico?

Nothing...we lost the all electric small Lincoln SUV to Mexico. It starts there in 2020 when they remove the Fusion and MKZ. There is another small SUV planned, Ford calls it the Bronco's little brother. It will compete with Jeep. No word on where it will be built in 2 years.

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Taurus has been known to be going away for at least 2 years. 2018 was actually supposed to be its last year but they delayed it because of Jim Hackett reviewing everything. Same situation with the Fiesta. Chicago is getting the new Lincoln Aviator and a brand new Explorer next year. They will be fine.

 

As for the Continental Im not buying a word of it. Not a single publication has published any credible evidence backing up their claims. And no, Motor Trend isnt credible, they are entertainment, and barely at that.

 

 

I know all about your quality issues there. I spent a year there when I got laid off when MAP eliminated 3rd shift in 2015 so Ive witnessed it firsthand and I have a good friend who is full time there who tells me all about the stupidity that still goes on. The fact that management isnt doing shit about it surprises me even less. It sounds like Theyre giving you just enough rope to hang yourselves with so when the next new product comes around they can justify putting it somewhere else. Thats how these things work and it happened here at MAP too. Thats part of the reason Ford steadfastly refuses to bring 2 shifts back for the Ranger until the Bronco launches, whenever the hell that ends up being, even if demand ends up being higher than estimated. The only thing stopping them from importing the Ranger to begin with is the chicken tax, because theres already 2 plants worldwide that already build it.

Edited by fuzzymoomoo
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deflep1 you described CAP when you said what the morale and chaos at Flat Rock is. Flat Rock is not alone.

 

We have had 5 or 6 plant managers in the last 7 or 8 years. We have process coaches that just walk out and never return. We have salaried people get titles and positions with no background or experience. We see M.E.`s that have no maintenance background much less any education linked to engineering. Then the hate and/or envy between those salaried members who think they should have got the title and not someone else. Then mix in a part of the hourly workforce that gets shit on because they come into work and/or can do the operations. An hourly workforce that at best had enough experience to cover two shifts but then be spread out to this G-d forbid three crews. A skilled workforce that gets the big wheeny with whatever the hell they call their schedule and the "make do" crap or the lets see 12 hours a week to get PM`s done... then the unexperienced trades salaried people that say that's broke again ....why? didn`t you guys just fix it????

 

Then I could go on and on about those that think they don`t have to do certain operations because they`re somebodies...somebody. Oh and the union rep that tutors new hires and family members on the fine art of medical restrictions. Lets not forget the ever popular FMLA excuse. Morale? if CAP didn`t have LOW/BAD morale we won`t have any morale. I forgot to mix in the I`m going to be rich... legal proceedings mentality.

 

With the privilege of being at different plants I can say there are very few facilities with a good morale. I know it sounds like a broken record but "I" never thought things could have ever got so fucked up. Greed has once again made the glass house believe the bullshit charts and data dreamed up by those with no background and experience. Being a realist, I believe in cycles, people what is being put in place is the same stupid shit we have gone through a few years back. It wasn`t good back then and it will be worse in the near future.

Edited by Decker
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Taurus has been known to be going away for at least 2 years. 2018 was actually supposed to be its last year but they delayed it because of Jim Hackett reviewing everything. Same situation with the Fiesta. Chicago is getting the new Lincoln Aviator and a brand new Explorer next year. They will be fine.

 

As for the Continental Im not buying a word of it. Not a single publication has published any credible evidence backing up their claims. And no, Motor Trend isnt credible, they are entertainment, and barely at that.

 

 

I know all about your quality issues there. I spent a year there when I got laid off when MAP eliminated 3rd shift in 2015 so Ive witnessed it firsthand and I have a good friend who is full time there who tells me all about the stupidity that still goes on. The fact that management isnt doing shit about it surprises me even less. It sounds like Theyre giving you just enough rope to hang yourselves with so when the next new product comes around they can justify putting it somewhere else. Thats how these things work and it happened here at MAP too. Thats part of the reason Ford steadfastly refuses to bring 2 shifts back for the Ranger until the Bronco launches, whenever the hell that ends up being, even if demand ends up being higher than estimated. The only thing stopping them from importing the Ranger to begin with is the chicken tax, because theres already 2 plants worldwide that already build it.

 

Just a little correction Fuzzy, 2016 we were told the Taurus would not see another launch. Then the marketing people sounded off whaaat!!! cut off the police units??? whaaat!!! cut off those Saudi and all those other exports??? We make how much on those units and you knuckleheads want to cut the gooses throat? Like I said greed will make decisions even the stupid ones....

 

Hmmm no automobiles made in the US??? Welcome to the next great decision... The New Ford Truck Company

 

Can you hear it? Because of the 25% tariff on foreign built units we need to help the company not file bankruptcy.... Concessions and "5" TIERS!!!

Edited by Decker
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Just a little correction Fuzzy, 2016 we were told the Taurus would not see another launch. Then the marketing people sounded off whaaat!!! cut off the police units??? whaaat!!! cut off those Saudi and all those other exports??? We make how much on those units and you knuckleheads want to cut the gooses throat? Like I said greed will make decisions even the stupid ones....

 

Hmmm no automobiles made in the US??? Welcome to the next great decision... The New Ford Truck Company

 

Can you hear it? Because of the 25% tariff on foreign built units we need to help the company not file bankruptcy.... Concessions and "5" TIERS!!!

I was told last year that 18 was the last year ;)
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Everyone knew the Taurus was ending, but it was confirmed the 2019 Continental will be the last model. North American Fusion/MKZ production ends in 2020, with possibly no exports to America available. The Continental is the only thing keeping us on 2 shifts at Flat Rock. We had 6 straight months of not even getting 40 hours until recently when we launched the 2019 Continental. No new product is scheduled for us for 2 years, so late this year losing a shift is a high probability. You can't keep 2 shifts running with only 1 car left that sells globally under 130,000 units a year. 2016 Global Mustang sales hit 150,000, but dropped last year. Global Continental sales last year were under 20,000. Our total production for 2018 will be lucky to hit 125,000 units. Ford will have to decide quickly if they want to replace the Taurus, Fusion and Continental with one car based on the Conti platform, which is basically a stretched Fusion platform. They've hinted at it, but if they think everyone just wants a truck or a crossover, the Mustang will end up being the last car standing. The Fiesta will be killed, the Focus will be imported from China and sales will keep nosediving until they stop selling it here, which will end the Ford car lineup. I'm glad our truck and SUV/crossover plants will all be running full tilt soon, but there is a real possibility of consolidating plants again in our near future. Chicago and Flat Rock don't have enough products to fill them both. Autonomous sales for us in 2021 are slated at only 4,000 units and will provide very few jobs, the same as our new data mobility center. Self driving cars are not going to take off like Ford management thinks. It might take another decade for self driving cars to become a hit and may take that long to get our roads in good enough shape to keep those autonomous cars from crashing into all the potholes! Car prices have risen so sharply that people under 30 can't possibly afford $500 - $600 a month payments, that's why a third of all new sales are leases, but even if they lease, their monthly insurance payments can be more than their lease payment! $2,000 - $4,000 a year for full coverage insurance in Michigan is the norm. We are starting to quickly lose customers who can actually afford a new car. Bad credit, student loan debt and credit card debt are crippling young (and lots of older) peoples' ability to buy a new car. New car loans can be financed for 7 years now...84 months of payments! WOW, and sub-prime car loans that are defaulting by the hundreds of thousands are going to cause the economy bubble to burst soon just like the sub-prime housing loans did back in 2007. Yes the stock market is high, unemployment numbers are low (part time jobs and people who gave up looking keep those numbers artificially low), but we all know most people are in debt up to their eyeballs and another crash is coming. The 2019 Contract talks should be very interesting! (Did I mention Flat Rock STILL DOESN'T have a local contract?) Good luck to us all.

 

Here is something from Motor Trend stating the Mach 1 SUV will be built in Flat Rock.

 

http://www.motortrend.com/news/ford-mach-1-will-electric-performance-crossover/

Edited by Footballfan
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Try a Google search...Ford internal paperwork was released 4 months ago showing no U.S. production of the Continental in 2020, fueling rumors production would be shipped to China. This week many articles have been published stating Ford is killing the Taurus and Continental, the 2019 models are the last. Last December reports stated the Fusion and MKZ won't be built in North America after 2019. Motor Trend Dec 14, 2017 article. FordAuthority.com Mar 14 2018 article states the current gen Continental (2019 model) will be the last. Our unit trainers have been telling us this for months. The car has flopped in the U.S., with only 12,000 sold here in the states in 2017 and about 6,000 units being shipped to China. As for the Taurus, there is a 2020 Chinese next generation model, but Ford announced all over the news a year ago there is no 2020 American model, the 2019 is the last model. Every upper management and pilot plant person I've talked to who train our unit trainers / new model people have said Ford is moving away from cars and going for high profit trucks, SUV's, crossovers and new electrics and autonomous vehicles. Ford is losing a ton of money on the Continental with low sales, recalls, production and warranty issues. They gambled big on Lincoln and so far only the new navigator is paying off. A fully loaded Continental can cost you 80k. Some Chinese buyers are willing to fork over that much, but only 12,000 people bought a Conti last year in the U.S., and most of those were cheaper 50k-60k models. Ford is on a VERY strict budget at its car plants and is getting cheaper by the day. They won't hire our part timers who have 2 years in even though over 350 workers have retired in the last 6 months. We have thousands of new cars in our lots waiting for replacement parts and hundreds of new cars every day don't pass inspection. Our plant is losing money, the Continental is losing money and sales are dropping, how is that buying into rumors? I've been through losing a shift twice here and it almost happened again in January, but there is no place to put 1,400 of our workers because MAP is laying off a shift, so we are trying to ride it out. If you have the capacity to make 280,000 cars a year on 2 shifts and you're only making 140,000 and dropping, it's not practical to work 2 shifts 30 hours a week and pay them for 40 for months (or years) on end.

 

 

you just said it all right there... "fueling RUMORS"

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Whats to stop that small suv from being imported from China or Mexico?

The small SUV is already here,its called the Eco Sport and its made in India. Its the first vehicle sold in the US that's made in India. A-Plan price for a fully loaded AWD titanium is around $26,000.

Edited by DrX
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  • 5 weeks later...

It was all posted on the news this morning. Ford is killing all car production except for the Mustang and the new Focus Active crossover. Most of this info has been available for six months!

Mostly auto's in North America by 2020.......Here's article............ http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2018/04/post_87.html

 

And here's our "hired gun" to tell you how and when it will happen...... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-25/ford-ceo-plans-11-5-billion-more-cuts-pulls-ahead-margin-goal

Edited by lastmanstanding
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MKZ would need to go it alone like Continental, but the Continental is still just a stretched Fusion so where they get a Sedan architecture to work form is another story. They'd have to spend quite a fortune on it for a customer they don't have so I'm doubtful they are staying in the sedan business with so many new Utilities arriving. I suspect one of them might carry the Continental name, some sort of large Crossover coupe like the Audi Q8 would be pretty awesome IMO.

Edited by Assimilator
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MKZ would need to go it alone like Continental, but the Continental is still just a stretched Fusion so where they get a Sedan architecture to work form is another story. They'd have to spend quite a fortune on it for a customer they don't have so I'm doubtful they are staying in the sedan business with so many new Utilities arriving. I suspect one of them might carry the Continental name, some sort of large Crossover coupe like the Audi Q8 would be pretty awesome IMO.

Our new model and launch team trainers have friends at the Pilot plant working on the 2020 Continental, but no vendors here have any parts for it they are scheduled to produce. Ford product plant placement paperwork that lists every model scheduled to be produced in North America reveals no 2020 Continental. That means they are shipping production of it to China. The market for it is growing there, unlike here, where sales drop EVERY month! Ford isn't ahead of the curve, dropping car production because more people buy SUV's, trucks and crossovers, it's actually that they desperately want investors to view Ford like they view GM and Tesla. They can't make big profits on cars, so they cut costs everywhere and produce everything BUT cars, hoping the higher profit margins will entice investors. We employees are the main investors in this company outside the Ford family. Nobody else wants the stock or believes in the company. Ford is quickly becoming irrelevant and it is scaring the shit out of the Ford family. That's why they have been leaking all the info on the car lineup being vastly reduced for months. They WANT the press to see they are a modern, progressive, adaptive automotive/mobility company. The autonomous movement will fail for next 5 years, with multiple costly lawsuits and insurance laws that will need to be rewritten. Ford will lose Billions on this. I predict they will propose at contract time to look into offering lump sum payouts to convert future pensions into 401k plans. (GM did this) The Big 3 got rid of their biggest legacy cost, retiree health care, with VEBA. Current pensions couldn't be easily converted, but future pensions could be. If Ford ever goes bankrupt, the current pensions still get paid until the money runs out. People not collecting or not 30 year eligible yet would not see a dime. A pension buyout rolled into a 401K protects against losing your pension in bankruptcy. Our inept top management could easily burn through all cash reserves chasing the latest trends and desperately trying to appear cutting edge like Tesla. They are cutting so many stations on the assembly line to vastly increase profit margins, but the quality disappears and lots of workers are getting injured trying to keep up with these overloaded workstations. Ford is making tons of mistakes and repeating many more. Chinese car companies will be exporting their own low priced cars to the U.S. by next spring. With our lineup disappearing, our car customers will buy what is available and what they can afford.

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